I'm calling it now, I think Aaron Rodgers forces a trade from the Packers

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by twisty571

Please show me how GB would owe Rodgers $46M this year with out the signing bonus money...lol

oh sources....NFL Network & the same site you mentioned...Sport Trac
https://www.nfl.com/news/aaron-rodge...-reworked-deal
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-ba...-rodgers-3745/

Since you claim you are using Spotrac, go look at tell me what is yearly cash hit is. Hint: it's not $46 million

[twisty571]

Originally Posted by whitmm

Since you claim you are using Spotrac, go look at tell me what is yearly cash hit is. Hint: it's not $46 million

Please, your trying to act like you know more than all these announcers and insiders all over TV saying the same crap I am.....

Rodgers’ cap number in 2022 is now $46.1 million

Source....
https://packerswire.usatoday.com/202...s-restructure/

Now since you know it all....explain to the world how he is owed $46.1m this year without the signing bonus....

[Grid]

Not to interrupt the $26MIL VS $46MIl circle jerk, but why does it matter what Rodgers will physically put in his bank account from the Packers next season?

$46MIL is the cap hit. It doesn't matter if that is $1MIL in cash, and a prorated bonus of $45MIL. He counts $46MIL against the cap next year.

$46MIL is the only thing anyone cares about, expect Aaron Rodgers who is actually getting the cash.

$46MIL is what the team will have to work around. $46MIL is what comes off the $208MIL projected 2022 Cap number.

The Packers will have $162MIL to pay for an entire team, if they keep Rodgers and that $46MIL cap hit.

Did I say $46MIL enough? Because that is all that matters.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by Grid

Not to interrupt the $26MIL VS $46MIl circle jerk, but why does it matter what Rodgers will physically put in his bank account from the Packers next season?

$46MIL is the cap hit. It doesn't matter if that is $1MIL in cash, and a prorated bonus of $45MIL. He counts $46MIL against the cap next year.

$46MIL is the only thing anyone cares about, expect Aaron Rodgers who is actually getting the cash.

$46MIL is what the team will have to work around. $46MIL is what comes off the $208MIL projected 2022 Cap number.

The Packers will have $162MIL to pay for an entire team, if they keep Rodgers and that $46MIL cap hit.

Did I say $46MIL enough? Because that is all that matters.

Because the Packers are not actually paying Aaron $46 million in 2022. Nor will the actual cap hit be that amount. It doesn't matter if he's on the team or they trade him or cut him. That number is not going to come to fruition

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by twisty571

Please, your trying to act like you know more than all these announcers and insiders all over TV saying the same crap I am.....


Source....
https://packerswire.usatoday.com/202...s-restructure/

Now since you know it all....explain to the world how he is owed $46.1m this year without the signing bonus....

You do understand that the cap hit is not the same thing as what the player is owed, don't you?

[rogueriver]

I think the 49ers will trade their super bowl winning Qb and some future drafts for him.....Yes I said Super Bowl winning because we are winning the super bowl this year and you can count on it.

[twisty571]

Originally Posted by whitmm

You do understand that the cap hit is not the same thing as what the player is owed, don't you?

ok so the cap hit is $46m no matter how you slice it.....tell me how that is without the signing bonus being counted in that money that he is owed this year? If he isn't on the roster they save $19m....so what is the rest of it for? Hmmm signing bonus would be a big part of that hit they have to take THIS YEAR (2022) NO MATTER WHAT!

[epatmythes]

Originally Posted by whitmm

What has Malik Taylor ever done to be included in a list of players that they need to resign? He was a roster filler. So he wasn't on the PS, he might as well have been. Doesn't matter that he was on the active roster, he did nothing to contribute to the team. You included him because you were trying to make their situation sound more dire. Wherever he signs, it's going to be for the minimum. That's why I called you out for it.

Great be a realist, what a boring way to be a fan. I'll choose to be a fan that has high hopes and a positive outlook for the team. If wanting that and wanting the best chance to win is being an "Rodgers fan boi," then I guess I'm a fan boi. And I'll deal with the heartbreak when it comes. I'd rather have that than having a pessimistic approach to it. Fandom is supposed to be living in fantasy world. Might as well be a Vikings fan if you want to live in the "real world."

I laid out a potential scenario that would lead to keeping Rodgers, Adams, and a solid defense (most of the key parts are still on very friendly contracts), you just don't want to hear it. I threw out a possibility, I've never said that I'm positive it's going to happen. But you continue to insist that you are 100% going to be right. Enjoy your doom and gloom outlook. Please come back and gloat about being right if it comes true.

And regardless of what happens with Rodgers, his cap hit this year will not be $45 million. Whether he's traded or stays, that number will be lower. It's great to throw that number out there to prove your point to want him gone, but it's a fictional number.

How freaking high and mighty are you bud?

I 100% am a fan that has high hopes and positive outlook for the team.

My high hopes and positive outlook are based on looking forward to a future that can create the best outcomes based on a strong belief we can't make the impossible happen... and the best case for that involves seeing Rodgers leave and getting valuable assets in return.

Your high hopes and positive outlook are a sham of denial and unrealistic hopes that almost everyone, except you, accepts as impossible!

I guess I'll just have to live with being a boring fan... but I guess it beats being a delusional one

[Grid]

Originally Posted by whitmm

Because the Packers are not actually paying Aaron $46 million in 2022. Nor will the actual cap hit be that amount. It doesn't matter if he's on the team or they trade him or cut him. That number is not going to come to fruition

Thats the crazy thing! It doesnt matter what they owe him. It matters what the cap hit is.

Yes, for sure, in an NFL contract they pay the player his signing bonus, or break the bonus up for easy things, like Work Out Bonus or roster bonus or whatever.

By and large, the Player gets the bonus upfront. But the team gets to prorate that bonus over the length of the contract. If I gave you a $100MIL 4 year deal, I'd ask you to take that as $50MIL in Salary and $50MIL upfront.

You walk out, with $50MIL now, and start drawing the salary when the season starts.

I log the above as $12.5MIL per year in salary & 12.5MIL per year in prorated bonus. That way, in season one, you count $25MIL against my cap, even though I would have paid you $62.5MIL in cash by the end of the 1st season.

The term Dead Cap comes in, from the Prorated portion of the bonus. I paid you that money in the bonus, or in guaranteed fashion. You aren't on the team, but the money is still on the books because I stretched it out.

For Rodgers, $46MIL IS the actual cap number.

$26,470,588 in Base Salary + $16,321,569 in Prorated Signing Bonus + $500,000 in Workout Bonus + $2,852,000 in restructured money, which is the team pushing money owed around to cook the books to get under the cap prior.

Add them all up, and in 2022 Rodgers will count $46,144,157.00 against the cap. You are silly if you think that is not his cap number. Or that any of this works a different way.

Again, makes no difference how they showed they paid him. They did/will pay him. It matters how they posted that money to the league, for cap reasons.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by twisty571

ok so the cap hit is $46m no matter how you slice it.....tell me how that is without the signing bonus being counted in that money that he is owed this year? If he isn't on the roster they save $19m....so what is the rest of it for? Hmmm signing bonus would be a big part of that hit they have to take THIS YEAR (2022) NO MATTER WHAT!

As of right now, he's not owed a signing bonus in 2022. There is a cap hit in 2022 for it, but they don't owe him actual money. And again, $46 million means nothing, because there's no chance that will be the actual cap hit, no matter what they do.

I'll try and break this down in terms of cap hit. Signing bonuses are down to push dead money into the future. Roster bonuses are usually the guaranteed portion of contracts, meaning if you're on the team on a certain day of the league year, you're guaranteed that money.

In 2018, he signed a 4 year $134 million extension that included a $57.5 million dollar signing bonus. That was all paid to him that year. The remaining $76.5 was spread out in base salary over those next 4 years. The signing bonus does not all count towards the cap at the time it's paid out, it's spread out over the length of the contract, roughly $14.5 per year.

In 2019, they converted $11.5m of his base salary into a signing bonus. That's prorated over the remaining 3 years of his contract, making the dead cap hit up to around $18m per year.

In 2020, same thing, converted to signing bonus.

In 2021, same thing. That's why converting $14.5 million to signing bonus only cleared up $8 million in cap space.

And that leads us to 2022, where the road has currently hit a dead end. There's no more contract left, meaning there's no more road to keep kicking that cap hit down. That is why his cap is as large as it is. It doesn't mean that they actually owe him $46 million dollars this year.

[lambeauleap87]

Originally Posted by Grid

Thats the crazy thing! It doesnt matter what they owe him. It matters what the cap hit is.

Yes, for sure, in an NFL contract they pay the player his signing bonus, or break the bonus up for easy things, like Work Out Bonus or roster bonus or whatever.

By and large, the Player gets the bonus upfront. But the team gets to prorate that bonus over the length of the contract. If I gave you a $100MIL 4 year deal, I'd ask you to take that as $50MIL in Salary and $50MIL upfront.

You walk out, with $50MIL now, and start drawing the salary when the season starts.

I log the above as $12.5MIL per year in salary & 12.5MIL per year in prorated bonus. That way, in season one, you count $25MIL against my cap, even though I would have paid you $62.5MIL in cash by the end of the 1st season.

The term Dead Cap comes in, from the Prorated portion of the bonus. I paid you that money in the bonus, or in guaranteed fashion. You aren't on the team, but the money is still on the books because I stretched it out.

For Rodgers, $46MIL IS the actual cap number.

$26,470,588 in Base Salary + $16,321,569 in Prorated Signing Bonus + $500,000 in Workout Bonus + $2,852,000 in restructured money, which is the team pushing money owed around to cook the books to get under the cap prior.

Add them all up, and in 2022 Rodgers will count $46,144,157.00 against the cap. You are silly if you think that is not his cap number. Or that any of this works a different way.

Again, makes no difference how they showed they paid him. They did/will pay him. It matters how they posted that money to the league, for cap reasons.

I think that's kind of the point whittm is making - an extension can and would give Aaron more money for a lowered cap hit in 2022.

Either way, though, there is a 0% chance Rodgers plays in Green Bay with a $46 million cap hit this year.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by Grid

Thats the crazy thing! It doesnt matter what they owe him. It matters what the cap hit is.

Yes, for sure, in an NFL contract they pay the player his signing bonus, or break the bonus up for easy things, like Work Out Bonus or roster bonus or whatever.

By and large, the Player gets the bonus upfront. But the team gets to prorate that bonus over the length of the contract. If I gave you a $100MIL 4 year deal, I'd ask you to take that as $50MIL in Salary and $50MIL upfront.

You walk out, with $50MIL now, and start drawing the salary when the season starts.

I log the above as $12.5MIL per year in salary & 12.5MIL per year in prorated bonus. That way, in season one, you count $25MIL against my cap, even though I would have paid you $62.5MIL in cash by the end of the 1st season.

The term Dead Cap comes in, from the Prorated portion of the bonus. I paid you that money in the bonus, or in guaranteed fashion. You aren't on the team, but the money is still on the books because I stretched it out.

For Rodgers, $46MIL IS the actual cap number.

$26,470,588 in Base Salary + $16,321,569 in Prorated Signing Bonus + $500,000 in Workout Bonus + $2,852,000 in restructured money, which is the team pushing money owed around to cook the books to get under the cap prior.

Add them all up, and in 2022 Rodgers will count $46,144,157.00 against the cap. You are silly if you think that is not his cap number. Or that any of this works a different way.

Again, makes no difference how they showed they paid him. They did/will pay him. It matters how they posted that money to the league, for cap reasons.

$46.14 million is only the number if they do nothing with him. If they don't trade/cut/extend him. That's it. That's the only way that in 2022 his actual cap hit is that number. What are the odds of that happening? About as close to zero as you can get.

That is why I'm saying that number doesn't mean anything. Yes, that is the number today. That is not going to be the number when it truly means something. You tell me I'm wrong and then lay out exactly what I'm saying.

[SupermanBrandon]

I look forward to seeing Aaron in a Green Bay uniform next season.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by lambeauleap87

I think that's kind of the point whittm is making - an extension can and would give Aaron more money for a lowered cap hit in 2022.

Either way, though, there is a 0% chance Rodgers plays in Green Bay with a $46 million cap hit this year.

Exactly. $46 million is a big scary number that won't actually be on the books when the time comes. That's why I'm saying it doesn't matter. The $26 million is all of that rolled over signing bonuses. The $19 million is still unpaid salary, and that number can be taken off the books, or spread out over more years.

[ddouglas14]

Originally Posted by Grid

Why would anyone EVER acknowledge that? Just like I posted the other day, in this thread:

Broncos are in win now mode. They have a top 5 Defense. They have good backs, with both Williams and Gordon almost hitting 1,000 yards each.

While the leadership of Fangio was lackluster at best, and lead to him getting fired. They have a talented roster, outside of QB play.

Teddy B was a rent-an-arm. Not sure how many victories they were expecting out of him, and his 16 TD's per season. Not like they have anything better, as Drew Lock sure isn't the answer.

Adding Rodgers and then bringing in Adams makes them a contender IMO

Sorry i should have noticed the "location: Chicago" before now, in today's NFL it takes a little more than paper talent or 1st round picks to be a contender, while a paper defense looks good on, you guessed it, paper ... often times it under performs with or without an offense on the same team. Losing 9-12 games a year for half a decade, firing your coach, and trading away your defensive captain means you are rebuilding ... plain an simple, it does not matter what QB is under center in Denver next year, without the 3 top 100 picks in 2022, and most likely 1st rd picks in the next two drafts, the Broncos will be fighting with LV for 3rd in the AFC-W for at least the next 5 years ... this is not 1985, thank god, i couldn't relive that again

[ddouglas14]

Originally Posted by Grid

Jut to put the Packers cap issues on display. They are already $40+ MIL over the cap. And that is without them resigning any of these players. All of the below, are now no longer under contract.

IE, none of these guys counts toward the already $40MIl over. Resigning any of them, would just put them that much more over the cap.


Davante Adams WR
Kevin King CB
Robert Tonyan TE
Chandon Sullivan CB
De'Vondre Campbell LB
Lucas Patrick OL
Dennis Kelly OT
Tyler Lancaster DL
Corey Bojorquez P
Rasul Douglas CB
Oren Burks LB
Equanimeous St. Brown WR
Jack Heflin DT
Marquez Valdes-Scantling WR
Allen Lazard WR
Yosh Nijman OT

Honestly, seeing this, what good is Rodgers when he only has old man Cobb, and his 28 catches last year, left to throw to?

Adams, Douglas, and Campbell ... maybe Lazard ... otherwise this list basically performed at or below replacement level this year. Add in Douglas and Campbell were street free agents and this is probably a non-issue with Rodgers and the FO ... you can clear $60M relatively easily and probably still bring back Yosh, MVS, Lazard, Tonyan, Patrick, Sullivan and Adams, plus a draft class and 3-4 street FAs. I'm not saying 12 is back in GB next year ... but at this point its the most logical solution IF he and GB are determined to compete next year. If either wants something different (ie rebuild, change of scenery) then the options are limited as his cost (both in cap and compensation for the trade) will handicap the receiving team

[lambeauleap87]

Originally Posted by ddouglas14

Adams, Douglas, and Campbell ... maybe Lazard ... otherwise this list basically performed at or below replacement level this year. Add in Douglas and Campbell were street free agents and this is probably a non-issue with Rodgers and the FO ... you can clear $60M relatively easily and probably still bring back Yosh, MVS, Lazard, Tonyan, Patrick, Sullivan and Adams, plus a draft class and 3-4 street FAs. I'm not saying 12 is back in GB next year ... but at this point its the most logical solution IF he and GB are determined to compete next year. If either wants something different (ie rebuild, change of scenery) then the options are limited as his cost (both in cap and compensation for the trade) will handicap the receiving team

FWIW, Nijman will be back as an ERFA and Lazard is an RFA, so those fellas will be back super cheap. I think Tonyan/Bojoquez will be back on cheap deals, too.

The Packers cap is only an issue as they can't keep everybody. Some guys will be gone, of course, but simply whatever they do with Rodgers ($20MM), cutting the Smiths ($27.5MM), and pushing money out on Bakhtiari/Clark ($17.5MM) puts them well clear of wherever they need to be immediately with a number of other money-saving moves giving them flexibility (Cobb, Lowry, Crosby, Turner, Lewis cuts - or extending Jaire Alexander could save them up to $9MM against the cap). Cap isn't nearly the issue it seems.

[Grid]

Originally Posted by whitmm

$46.14 million is only the number if they do nothing with him. If they don't trade/cut/extend him. That's it. That's the only way that in 2022 his actual cap hit is that number. What are the odds of that happening? About as close to zero as you can get.

That is why I'm saying that number doesn't mean anything. Yes, that is the number today. That is not going to be the number when it truly means something. You tell me I'm wrong and then lay out exactly what I'm saying.

So you agree, since nothing has happened right now, and if nothing more happens later, Aaron Rodgers will count $46.14MIL against the cap in 2022.

That is all I wanted to hear you say.

Everything else is hyperbole. There is no what if he gets cut, he hasn't. There is no what if he gets traded, he hasn't. There is no, do they extend him, to prorate even more money, because they haven't done that.

What we do know, is the team has to take those into consideration, because his cap number IS $46.14MIL

Yes, I 100% agree, should any of those NEW things happen, his Cap hit would not be $46.14MIL. But until they do, it is $46.14MIL. And everything the Packers will have to do, is because they have to work around that $46.14MIL. And that is why that number means everything.

[Grid]

Originally Posted by ddouglas14

Adams, Douglas, and Campbell ... maybe Lazard ... otherwise this list basically performed at or below replacement level this year. Add in Douglas and Campbell were street free agents and this is probably a non-issue with Rodgers and the FO ... you can clear $60M relatively easily and probably still bring back Yosh, MVS, Lazard, Tonyan, Patrick, Sullivan and Adams, plus a draft class and 3-4 street FAs. I'm not saying 12 is back in GB next year ... but at this point its the most logical solution IF he and GB are determined to compete next year. If either wants something different (ie rebuild, change of scenery) then the options are limited as his cost (both in cap and compensation for the trade) will handicap the receiving team

I am not a Packer fan, with the exception of knowing how special Adams is. I cant disagree with you saying these other players are expendable. But that doesn't mean the team gets to keep that money, since they will have to pay for their replacements in most cases.

The most important takeaway from my post, that you quoted, is that all of these players do NOT count against the already -$40MIL cap hole they are in. You are not clearing $60MIL with these players being gone. Them not being under contract is why the cap is -$40MIL. Adding them back to the team, or replacing them with different players, just makes that cap even more negative.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by lambeauleap87

FWIW, Nijman will be back as an ERFA and Lazard is an RFA, so those fellas will be back super cheap. I think Tonyan/Bojoquez will be back on cheap deals, too.

The Packers cap is only an issue as they can't keep everybody. Some guys will be gone, of course, but simply whatever they do with Rodgers ($20MM), cutting the Smiths ($27.5MM), and pushing money out on Bakhtiari/Clark ($17.5MM) puts them well clear of wherever they need to be immediately with a number of other money-saving moves giving them flexibility (Cobb, Lowry, Crosby, Turner, Lewis cuts - or extending Jaire Alexander could save them up to $9MM against the cap). Cap isn't nearly the issue it seems.

The cap is a large, scary number because of Aaron's hit. Outside of a few people on that list, it was a bunch of backups and replaceable pieces.

Bojoquez is a punter, and an average one at that. Tonyan didn't do himself any favors before the injury this year.

Another thing to factor in is the 2023 cap is expected to get a sizeable increase. It's surviving 2022, and I believe that the front office can figure out a way to get people paid long term and keep key parts.

[twisty571]

Originally Posted by Grid

So you agree, since nothing has happened right now, and if nothing more happens later, Aaron Rodgers will count $46.14MIL against the cap in 2022.

That is all I wanted to hear you say.

Everything else is hyperbole. There is no what if he gets cut, he hasn't. There is no what if he gets traded, he hasn't. There is no, do they extend him, to prorate even more money, because they haven't done that.

What we do know, is the team has to take those into consideration, because his cap number IS $46.14MIL

Yes, I 100% agree, should any of those NEW things happen, his Cap hit would not be $46.14MIL. But until they do, it is $46.14MIL. And everything the Packers will have to do, is because they have to work around that $46.14MIL. And that is why that number means everything.

Bingo & even if they trade/release him the bonus goes against the cap no matter what.

[lambeauleap87]

Originally Posted by twisty571

Bingo & even if they trade/release him the bonus goes against the cap no matter what.

Going back to the original point, though, Rodgers isn't due $46MM this year. Financially, an extension would give Rodgers more money this year (he's only set to earn about $27MM) while also lowering the cap hit because of how those bonuses can be prorated. He wouldn't have to "take less" to give the Packers more cap room.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by Grid

So you agree, since nothing has happened right now, and if nothing more happens later, Aaron Rodgers will count $46.14MIL against the cap in 2022.

That is all I wanted to hear you say.

Everything else is hyperbole. There is no what if he gets cut, he hasn't. There is no what if he gets traded, he hasn't. There is no, do they extend him, to prorate even more money, because they haven't done that.

What we do know, is the team has to take those into consideration, because his cap number IS $46.14MIL

Yes, I 100% agree, should any of those NEW things happen, his Cap hit would not be $46.14MIL. But until they do, it is $46.14MIL. And everything the Packers will have to do, is because they have to work around that $46.14MIL. And that is why that number means everything.

So you agree that his actual cap hit will not be $46.14 million in 2022?

Because you guys are acting like that number is set in stone. It's hyperbole to believe that the team will not do anything with him. That is the most exaggerated statement that could be made. You know it, I know it, Aaron knows, the team knows it. Standing pat is simply not an option. That is why $46.14 mill means nothing. It's more about what they can reduce that number down to.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by twisty571

Bingo & even if they trade/release him the bonus goes against the cap no matter what.

By your logic, there is no way for the Packers to escape the $46 million cap hit...

[twisty571]

Originally Posted by lambeauleap87

Going back to the original point, though, Rodgers isn't due $46MM this year. Financially, an extension would give Rodgers more money this year (he's only set to earn about $27MM) while also lowering the cap hit because of how those bonuses can be prorated. He wouldn't have to "take less" to give the Packers more cap room.

The Bonus money is already prorated but as we speak he is also owed back money that was already getting paid $2.8m a year from previous restructuring. How far do you think he would go to prorate his money that is already prorated on top of the money he is being paid for a previous restructure?