Marvel Cards are going crazy.

[TimBuckTwo]

PMGs are rare and old.

Being from the 90's makes them vintage classification wise.

Sports craze drug in the wave.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by TimBuckTwo

PMGs are rare and old.

Being from the 90's makes them vintage classification wise.

Sports craze drug in the wave.

Marvel didn't have PMG's prior to 2013. The original Marvel Metal set in 95 had the silver and gold flasher parallels.

It's like saying Topps Heritage retro design makes Mike Trout's Heritage Real One autograph vintage.

[BobCollects]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Marvel didn't have PMG's prior to 2013. The original Marvel Metal set in 95 had the silver and gold flasher parallels.

1995 Marvel Metal had just one parallel “silver flasher” set and two insert sets, Metal Blasters and Gold Blasters.


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[SoccerRCs]

Originally Posted by webjon

The growth in this PMG space clearly isn't organic.

I'm sure I'll get blasted for saying that (again) mostly by people who have something to benefit from the current price hikes.

It seems that the speculators want to change Marvel PMG collecting in to their hobby (i.e. sports card collectors care about different things that people who collected Marvel cards before the manipulation) -- they say it over and over again, it's so obvious.

If they really were just interested in this space they could have easily just started collecting without really changing the market -- so it seems that manipulation was a goal.

There are only a couple of rhetorical questions.

How long will the speculators stick around?

How long before manufacturers respond by increasing product?

The last time this happened the speculators stuck around for about 5 years.

Blast away -- I won't respond and probably won't read your comments.

I more just have questions: What do you actually mean when you say the growth isn't organic? What is organic growth and what unorganic growth? Can you name another space in the card market where prices went parabolic and the growth was "organic?" How is it different than what we are witnessing now with these marvel cards?

[Tim]

Originally Posted by SoccerRCs

I more just have questions: What do you actually mean when you say the growth isn't organic? What is organic growth and what unorganic growth? Can you name another space in the card market where prices went parabolic and the growth was "organic?" How is it different than what we are witnessing now with these marvel cards?

2016 mm is organic. Slowly and steadily climbs over time, all aspects.

[clearblue]

Actually, even 2016 MM went stagnant for a couple of years and had a bit of a dip. It wasn't until recently that things started taking off.

[glorbgorb]

Originally Posted by TimBuckTwo

PMGs are rare and old.

Being from the 90's makes them vintage classification wise.

Obviously others have responded to the inaccuracy. To extend that, the earlier actual PMG sets were had numbers up to 199. Not rare.

[ForceChange77]

I will say it again. Look at fuxm pmgs- the speculators couldn’t get a hold of them cheap since one guy owns the market , the market has barely moved on these despite the boom
Are they any worse than precious years? Maybe a bit because the comic art wasn’t great except for maybe a couple. No way to explain the stagnation of fuxm mumgs

[TimBuckTwo]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Marvel didn't have PMG's prior to 2013. The original Marvel Metal set in 95 had the silver and gold flasher parallels.

It's like saying Topps Heritage retro design makes Mike Trout's Heritage Real One autograph vintage.

Originally Posted by glorbgorb

Obviously others have responded to the inaccuracy. To extend that, the earlier actual PMG sets were had numbers up to 199. Not rare.

Sorry I was only thinking of the 97-98 Basketball PMGs numbered to 100 that seemed to have sparked the Marvel craze due to their recent spike.

[Tim]

Originally Posted by ForceChange77

I will say it again. Look at fuxm pmgs- the speculators couldn’t get a hold of them cheap since one guy owns the market , the market has barely moved on these despite the boom
Are they any worse than precious years? Maybe a bit because the comic art wasn’t great except for maybe a couple. No way to explain the stagnation of fuxm mumgs

Sure there is the checklist sucks

[ForceChange77]

Originally Posted by Tim

Sure there is the checklist sucks

Fusm checklist has a bunch of clunkers too
Luke cage bronze was $5 for multiple years. Now it’s $100 plus. Why? Demand for Luke cage hasn’t grown exponentially


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[BipolarBear]

Originally Posted by ForceChange77

I will say it again. Look at fuxm pmgs- the speculators couldn’t get a hold of them cheap since one guy owns the market , the market has barely moved on these despite the boom
Are they any worse than precious years? Maybe a bit because the comic art wasn’t great except for maybe a couple. No way to explain the stagnation of fuxm mumgs

Check again. They're nowhere near the stratospheric levels of the other sets, but they've definitely gone up significantly over the past couple months.

[MFaulkCollector]

Originally Posted by ForceChange77

Fusm checklist has a bunch of clunkers too
Luke cage bronze was $5 for multiple years. Now it’s $100 plus. Why? Demand for Luke cage hasn’t grown exponentially


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First off…. /199 is rare for a widely popular type of set; people have a false sense of /25,/50,/100 stuff always being available online and think /199 isn’t rare. /199 is 4 per state if nobody internationally owns one… for something relatively desirable it’s certainly rare…… and the 17 set was the first metal gem for a lot of new characters……. Marvel cards in general gained popularity as new people came into the market. People can talk about inorganic growth until they are blue in the face…. The fact is, inorganic growth across all cards brought attention and new collectors into the arena. These collectors are real and are helping to sustain organic buying trends.

Also… there are and have been a lot of times where the collecting community just flat out misses. Metal gems through most of their life in sports for the most part could have been had cheap….. prizm gold stuff was like 10 percent or less of the current values for 3/4ths of the panini license thus far. Marvel retro 13 was the most limited marvel release ever…. Even when 96 masterpieces were considered “rare” which they aren’t….. those same people didn’t really think about or correlate the retro 13 inserts being 500 or more times rarer….. with a lot of popular characters. Spikes in certain areas years down the road doesn’t haven’t mean manipulation, it could be that people just flat out missed and as prices start to tick up at some point the frenzy of collectors thinking they may miss out just grows. It’s happened to me, that much I know for sure

[glorbgorb]

What you are describing is basically FOFO, which absolutely factors in to an extent. But people want things as they are more desirable. So it is a self-feeding mechanism.

And I'll disagree with your /199 comment. In this day and age of the internet, the vast majority of those 199 cards show up available, a large percentage within days or weeks of a product being available.

[MFaulkCollector]

Originally Posted by glorbgorb

What you are describing is basically FOFO, which absolutely factors in to an extent. But people want things as they are more desirable. So it is a self-feeding mechanism.

And I'll disagree with your /199 comment. In this day and age of the internet, the vast majority of those 199 cards show up available, a large percentage within days or weeks of a product being available.

Yes they do……. But that’s the huge crux of this entire era of collecting…….. things appreciate over time. People realize they miss out on something from the 90s that isn’t some ridiculously hard to find /250 or less insert (sports mainly)….. it’s an easy pick up……. But sports collectors in general, many have been looking for certain cards to show up for years which allows a pent up interest, thus big sale prices when desirable low print cards sell.

This particular era of cards in general is a extreme low production era, panini in sports is ridiculous and upper deck has done some of it with marvel….. the internet allows you to locate things upon release and after….. but what about 5,10,20 years from now. This stuff will turn ghost and there will still be demand for it. I wouldn’t be the one running to eBay buying a /25 marvel card and pay first buyer top dollar…… but in the months after release I would certainly be eyeing low print stuff of popular character to just tuck away and forget about. The difficulty in finding 90s sports stuff is nuts, the 2010’s will be on another level of crazy

There are some tough 90s marvel……. But the 2010s marvel like 13 retro gems, titanium, 16 mm low numbered base and spectra gems, 15 Vibranium mosaic and ice patterns……the 17 usm credentials and venom/carnage web cards…… 10-15 years from now most of that will be ghost altogether…. And cards in general will cycle back down when the next recession hits and then grow huge during the boom however many years after.

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Aren't Battle Spectra Gems basically PMGs? It has a simple monocolor foil background design as PMGs.

Technically different just because the different name, doesn’t literally say Precious Metal Gems. But yea very similar.

The biggest difference is the multi-character on a card vs a single character. Some like the individual, kind of like in sports cards. But I think the BSGs play a nice and separate role of “PMG of a battle”. The other difference is BSGs are all original art. PMGs rehashed art. Also BSGs only numbered to /99 makes them not as complex. Kind of like it that way tbh.

[HiltonL]

Originally Posted by MFaulkCollector

Yes they do……. But that’s the huge crux of this entire era of collecting…….. things appreciate over time. People realize they miss out on something from the 90s that isn’t some ridiculously hard to find /250 or less insert (sports mainly)….. it’s an easy pick up……. But sports collectors in general, many have been looking for certain cards to show up for years which allows a pent up interest, thus big sale prices when desirable low print cards sell.

This particular era of cards in general is a extreme low production era, panini in sports is ridiculous and upper deck has done some of it with marvel….. the internet allows you to locate things upon release and after….. but what about 5,10,20 years from now. This stuff will turn ghost and there will still be demand for it. I wouldn’t be the one running to eBay buying a /25 marvel card and pay first buyer top dollar…… but in the months after release I would certainly be eyeing low print stuff of popular character to just tuck away and forget about. The difficulty in finding 90s sports stuff is nuts, the 2010’s will be on another level of crazy

There are some tough 90s marvel……. But the 2010s marvel like 13 retro gems, titanium, 16 mm low numbered base and spectra gems, 15 Vibranium mosaic and ice patterns……the 17 usm credentials and venom/carnage web cards…… 10-15 years from now most of that will be ghost altogether…. And cards in general will cycle back down when the next recession hits and then grow huge during the boom however many years after.

I can only hope this comes true. I opened a lot (in my opinion) of Rittenhouse Marvel product

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by MFaulkCollector

First off…. /199 is rare for a widely popular type of set; people have a false sense of /25,/50,/100 stuff always being available online and think /199 isn’t rare. /199 is 4 per state if nobody internationally owns one… for something relatively desirable it’s certainly rare…… and the 17 set was the first metal gem for a lot of new characters……. Marvel cards in general gained popularity as new people came into the market. People can talk about inorganic growth until they are blue in the face…. The fact is, inorganic growth across all cards brought attention and new collectors into the arena. These collectors are real and are helping to sustain organic buying trends.

Also… there are and have been a lot of times where the collecting community just flat out misses. Metal gems through most of their life in sports for the most part could have been had cheap….. prizm gold stuff was like 10 percent or less of the current values for 3/4ths of the panini license thus far. Marvel retro 13 was the most limited marvel release ever…. Even when 96 masterpieces were considered “rare” which they aren’t….. those same people didn’t really think about or correlate the retro 13 inserts being 500 or more times rarer….. with a lot of popular characters. Spikes in certain areas years down the road doesn’t haven’t mean manipulation, it could be that people just flat out missed and as prices start to tick up at some point the frenzy of collectors thinking they may miss out just grows. It’s happened to me, that much I know for sure

It's pretty absurd to say people missed UD Marvel PMGs -- they were prominently listed on comc and eBay. Anyone searching for marvel cards a couple of years ago couldn't miss them -- it wasnt possible. Long time Marvel collectors know what quality Marvel cards are and they deemed PMGs in general to be lacking. That's why they were easily available for relatively cheap prices, serial numbered or not.

You can claim all you want that the spike in PMG sales and prices in recent months are because collectors and investors suddenly discovered them. But common sense tells you that at the very least these cards have been deliberately promoted by certain entities, which led to them being the sudden focus of attention.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by glorbgorb

What you are describing is basically FOFO, which absolutely factors in to an extent. But people want things as they are more desirable. So it is a self-feeding mechanism.

And I'll disagree with your /199 comment. In this day and age of the internet, the vast majority of those 199 cards show up available, a large percentage within days or weeks of a product being available.

As a high end collector, I almost completely ignore cards serial numbered /199 -- it's filler. They could make a good target for set builders, though.

[marinocollector]

All I can say, is there’s a BUNCH of people who think they know the market from 2016-2020. During that time, there was ONE 13 retro PMG red of Deadpool listed and One 13 PMG red set.
These weren’t readily available.
15? Yes. 2-3 that weren’t selling forever at $30-40. (I hated the art so I never bought one).
You guys are all the experts. You know this is all fake. Sell what you have now. And go look back at the people who were short selling Brady, Pujols, Tiger, Lebron, MJ, Griffey, trout, jeter, Barry sanders, Shaq, Peyton Manning, Kobe, and so many others.
Fact of the matter, you guys never saw the potential. And if you think potential is maxed out, you’re incorrect

[marinocollector]

Also the fuxm PMGs are NOT real PMGs to PMG collectors. They don’t have the holofoil that makes the PMG the PMG. Heck, I wanted to do that set to go with my 17 spidey set but couldn’t justify it when seeing one in person. I never even bought a legion for my legion collection

[Wombat]

That Green Deadpool pic that was posted looks nice, but all the Reds I've seen from FUXM look kinda weak.

[One more set]

That green Deadpool is nice, I just bought it.

[MFaulkCollector]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

It's pretty absurd to say people missed UD Marvel PMGs -- they were prominently listed on comc and eBay. Anyone searching for marvel cards a couple of years ago couldn't miss them -- it wasnt possible. Long time Marvel collectors know what quality Marvel cards are and they deemed PMGs in general to be lacking. That's why they were easily available for relatively cheap prices, serial numbered or not.

You can claim all you want that the spike in PMG sales and prices in recent months are because collectors and investors suddenly discovered them. But common sense tells you that at the very least these cards have been deliberately promoted by certain entities, which led to them being the sudden focus of attention.

Miss them in the sense that they just flat out missed the long term importance of them.............. not actually miss seeing them

tons of sports collectors "missed" tom brady autos in the 02-05 range....... for over a decade and they were available all the time at a fraction of what they are now

marvel collectors missed on 96 masterpieces for over a decade or more.......... yet they there were to be had at a pretty regular rate


sales trends over time justify the data on anything......... is the degree of the spike on marvel 13 retro and gems significant? Absolutely... that's isn't really the point. The point is that without manipulation these items would have appreciated over time and the fact it would/will be incredibly hard to find them 15 or more years after release would be the catalyst for non linear growth

Collectors live for the chase.... and marvel had never once seen an era with this type of rarity....... 96 masterpieces aren't rare, and impel stuff was printed to the high heavens along with all the holograms and inserts. Rare items that are desirable sell very well and always have; and have the ability to increase organically in non linear fashion... whether it be cards, books, comics, art, whatever........ if you want to get hung up on 13 metal gems in particular and disregard everything else that's fine........... but when the titanium, jamabalaya, quick strike, 17 fusm credentials, venom and carnage web stuff, vibranium /99 and under are worth 5-10x what they are now in 5-10 years..... it will be very hard to point to metal gems and somehow correlate it all to manipulators. Historical data doesn't lie and manipulators cannot manipulate forever.... it will be sorted out just like every other collectible market since the beginning of time

[MFaulkCollector]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

It's pretty absurd to say people missed UD Marvel PMGs -- they were prominently listed on comc and eBay. Anyone searching for marvel cards a couple of years ago couldn't miss them -- it wasnt possible. Long time Marvel collectors know what quality Marvel cards are and they deemed PMGs in general to be lacking. That's why they were easily available for relatively cheap prices, serial numbered or not.

You can claim all you want that the spike in PMG sales and prices in recent months are because collectors and investors suddenly discovered them. But common sense tells you that at the very least these cards have been deliberately promoted by certain entities, which led to them being the sudden focus of attention.

Long term marvel card collectors had ZERO reference point from 1990 to 2012 about a set produced in such limited fashion................ and it would be very easy to argue that there weren't any "high end" marvel cards depending on what cash value you actually place in the high end category.

Most marvel collectors I talk to thought the sports themes and low production were gimmicky and that wasn't really popular with them. People can either adapt or get passed by............ those failing to see the value in some of the rare modern marvel stuff are just failing to adapt/just being bitter they missed out when it was in their wheelhouse and they should have known better