Looked at new cars today. UGH. How long will the shortage last?

[pingbling23]

Originally Posted by Pacmeyer

You honestly see carmakers removing features so they have to retrofit them later or pulling the plug months ago on some MY22 orders as a price manipulation scheme?

Either you're joking or you haven't been car shopping lately.

yeah, the shortages are legit. manufacturers arent making more and the dealers really arent either. consumers are getting the shaft but both manufacturers and dealers arent moving the volume they used to so their profits take a hit.

[sportsyard]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Nothing will change until the supply chain is recovered. The supply chain won’t recover until China quits their asinine “zero Covid” policy.

another take from the massage therapist that thinks he's an economist

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

None of the prices today are sustainable.

Anyone touting things as the "new normal" is hoping to sucker in a desperate buyer. Hold out as long as you can.

I agree with this...however, I don't expect new vehicle availability or pricing to improve much this year.

I've been wanting to purchase a new car this year as well, and will NOT pay over MSRP for what I want. I already disliked the dealership experience in previous years, now I despise it.

So, I'll wait and drive my daily further into the ground, and get what I want for a fair price (not 5-10K plus over sticker).

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by pingbling23

yeah, the shortages are legit. manufacturers arent making more and the dealers really arent either. consumers are getting the shaft but both manufacturers and dealers arent moving the volume they used to so their profits take a hit.

Have you seen the data? Dealerships are making out like bandits right now. Though the volume is far less, they no longer have to rely on incentives, salesmanship, and vehicle turnover to make decent profits. They now work less to make more per sale than ever before, plus dealership profits have always been about padding the bottom line during F&L and raking in the big bucks through servicing vehicles.

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

I agree with this...however, I don't expect new vehicle availability or pricing to improve much this year.

I've been wanting to purchase a new car this year as well, and will NOT pay over MSRP for what I want. I already disliked the dealership experience in previous years, now I despise it.

So, I'll wait and drive my daily further into the ground, and get what I want for a fair price (not 5-10K plus over sticker).

This is why I prefer buying cars from Tesla now. You order the car at the price and no salesperson trying to sale you GAP insurance and extended warranties. You check out the car, sign all the electronic paperwork, and away you go.

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

This is why I prefer buying cars from Tesla now. You order the car at the price and no salesperson trying to sale you GAP insurance and extended warranties. You check out the car, sign all the electronic paperwork, and away you go.

I like some aspects of the direct sales model, but the Tesla wait/order times are quite long now, and the MSRP has risen dramatically on most trims/models the last 8 months or so.

[rman112]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

I agree with this...however, I don't expect new vehicle availability or pricing to improve much this year.

I've been wanting to purchase a new car this year as well, and will NOT pay over MSRP for what I want. I already disliked the dealership experience in previous years, now I despise it.

So, I'll wait and drive my daily further into the ground, and get what I want for a fair price (not 5-10K plus over sticker).

You mean you don't want to pay the $7,000 dealership upcharge?

[rcmb3220]

Originally Posted by packman80

Dealers and manuf are making money hand over fist. At this point it's a man made chip shortage. They could easily have enough chips and cars made but that means prices come down. So they will on purpose keep the chip shortage going for years until it's common place that cars are this high and people won't ever see affordable cars again.

Yes that’s it. All auto manufacturers have conspired to pretend there is still a chip shortage. Going to great lengths to build shy thousands of vehicles and pay to have them sit in parking lots awaiting the last couple chips needed to complete the build. Airlifting shipments directly to assembly plants so they don’t have to shut down. taking parts from vehicles on dealer lots in order to fix customer cars so they don’t have to do a buyback. It’s just another act in the play called “The World is Out to Get Me”

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by packman80

Dealers and manuf are making money hand over fist. At this point it's a man made chip shortage. They could easily have enough chips and cars made but that means prices come down. So they will on purpose keep the chip shortage going for years until it's common place that cars are this high and people won't ever see affordable cars again.

Absolutely wrong. Car manufacturers outsource semiconductor manufacturing. Only last fall did Ford and GM finally launch partnerships to take more direct control of their chip production. It’s a problem because autos use older less sophisticated chips that don’t yield as much return as new chips for your iPhone 14 that you’re going to buy in a few months. It’s back of the line for these guys. Which is why GM had to cut features like heated seats and steering wheels in the fall.

Hopefully the CHIPS Act gets passed soon and Intel can get going on new plants for domestic manufacturing. Even then, you’re looking at a 2-3+ year wait before finished product is available. Until then, Asia controls 80% of the world’s chip manufacturing. And these companies continue to be at the mercy of governments that can mandate shut down of entire plants over one Covid case.

[Brobocop]

I used to get roasted for driving a Prius which I then got into a Camry Hybrid. A lot of my friends and in laws all drive big SUVs and trucks. Well, now I'm enjoying the 50+ MPG in a car that I could sell for more than I paid for it four years ago.

Will this last forever? Absolutely not. This is not a new normal. Housing is a different thing. They are two very distinct problems, they just happen to be going on at the same time.

[fordman]

Originally Posted by Pacmeyer

Were there any exceptions for the Bronco preorders? I read that Ford stepped in after a dealer marked up one guy's vehicle who complained about it on forums.

Ford made dealerships buy the Bronco on manufacturer credit so they can control the new sale market. Dealerships that marked up the Bronco bought on manufacturer credit, sold them back to themselves or one of their divisions to release them from the manufacturer restrictions and then reselling them with the mark ups. It's shady but it's happening. Ford put the same restrictions on the F-150 Lightning. Dealerships are doing the same thing with those as well.

Fordman

[fordman]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Absolutely wrong. Car manufacturers outsource semiconductor manufacturing. Only last fall did Ford and GM finally launch partnerships to take more direct control of their chip production. It’s a problem because autos use older less sophisticated chips that don’t yield as much return as new chips for your iPhone 14 that you’re going to buy in a few months. It’s back of the line for these guys. Which is why GM had to cut features like heated seats and steering wheels in the fall.

Hopefully the CHIPS Act gets passed soon and Intel can get going on new plants for domestic manufacturing. Even then, you’re looking at a 2-3+ year wait before finished product is available. Until then, Asia controls 80% of the world’s chip manufacturing. And these companies continue to be at the mercy of governments that can mandate shut down of entire plants over one Covid case.

There's some truth to this. GM used to make their chips in Ft Wayne, Indiana. They sold off the unit to a 3rd party supplier. The 3rd party supplier then outsourced the work to Taiwan. Chips are not made in China, they're made in Taiwan. Dont give me the Taiwan is part of china blah blah blah....
Chips are made in Taiwan and shipped off the island to mainland china for assembly in to whatever the chips were made for. There are chips made in china but they're usually sub par and not for auto's or name consumer goods. South Korea is getting back in to making chips as well.

Ford and GM are both working on getting certain chips made here in the USA again, Ohio specifically, but not all chips. Chips that make the vehicle actually drive, there are plenty of them. Chips that make the infotainment systems work, heated/cooled seats, usb ports, digital dash, certain lighting systems, back up cameras, impact detection, airbag and many other (fringe) components are what are in short supply and most of those are from 3rd party suppliers.

Fordman

[NCtheBBcradle]

I'm gonna go full tin hat here, and wave my conspiracy flags:

1. China's Covid lockdown is BS. I think it's just a tactic by which they can draw out and continue the supply chain pain on the US and world.

2. While I don't enjoy subsidizing the re-onshoring of chip manufacturing to US soil in Ohio and AZ, it needs to be done for our national industries' stability.

3. China has tried and failed to build a semiconductor industry themselves. They're going into Taiwan to take over that industry. They're watching real hard how the US and EU deal with Ukraine and Putin, but the world powers are aware of what that action and impact to the semi industry could do on world-wide scale.

We would have many more items than cars to worry about.

I've had 2 used cars sell right in front of me in the last 2 weeks. My Honda is fine with no issues, but it's aging and mpg is terrible (v6).

Off soapbox.

[Soxrule111]

OP Be patient and look around. I know the Kia Dealers in my Area were like $3,000 over sticker a while back, but mostly negotiable.

Sucks to buy now for sure, but look around. Definitely can find dealers who Honor MSRP just might have to wait a few months for a car to arrive.

[RogerGodahell]

I know it's been like this for a while but i just noticed it in person a few weeks ago when i got my car inspected. I asked one of the girls who works there where all the trucks went that used to be on one side of the lot? She said it's hard to get new vehicles and it's the same everywhere. She was telling me they even have trucks stuck in Canada because they don't have enough drivers to get them here. The car haulers.

I was wondering if they were going out of business or something because where there were normally like 30-40 new pick ups there was nothing.

[discodanman45]

My 2012 Tesla Model S is starting to give me issues of things slowly going wrong a need to be repaired. The battery still charges to 90% of its original capacity after 150,000 miles, but little things are expensive to fix on the Model S. I decided to get on the list for a Model 3. At $50,000 it is expensive but charging at my house is covered with my solar and I hate the non-Tesla supercharging networks. I will be trading in my Chevy Bolt that has 90,000 miles on it and it was a maintenance free car. My only complaint is it had really tiny and uncomfortable seats. With all the subsidies on the Chevy Bolt, I can get trade value equal to the purchase price. Not bad driving a card for 90,000 miles and basically charging for free for 5 years.

Estimated delivery in November, so hopefully that target date is accurate. Was wanting to get a Mach-e, but they basically stopped making them and charging is a PITA with chargepoint/eVgo/electrify america.

[Pacmeyer]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

My 2012 Tesla Model S is starting to give me issues of things slowly going wrong a need to be repaired. The battery still charges to 90% of its original capacity after 150,000 miles, but little things are expensive to fix on the Model S. I decided to get on the list for a Model 3. At $50,000 it is expensive but charging at my house is covered with my solar and I hate the non-Tesla supercharging networks. I will be trading in my Chevy Bolt that has 90,000 miles on it and it was a maintenance free car. My only complaint is it had really tiny and uncomfortable seats. With all the subsidies on the Chevy Bolt, I can get trade value equal to the purchase price. Not bad driving a card for 90,000 miles and basically charging for free for 5 years.

Estimated delivery in November, so hopefully that target date is accurate. Was wanting to get a Mach-e, but they basically stopped making them and charging is a PITA with chargepoint/eVgo/electrify america.

You're better off with the Tesla. The Mach-E is an ugly mashup that shouldn't have the Mustang badge. Some cars just don't look good as 4 door models.

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by Pacmeyer

You're better off with the Tesla. The Mach-E is an ugly mashup that shouldn't have the Mustang badge. Some cars just don't look good as 4 door models.

Having a Mustang badge on it was stupid. They should have just brough it back under the Thunderbird, has just as much in common with that car. The thing that was pushing me towards it was the $7500 federal tax credit, $2000 California rebate, and $3000 Valley Air Pollution District. The Tesla only qualifies for the $3000 Valley Air Rebate. If I could snag one at close to MSRP, the Mach-E would have been about $15,000 cheaper than the cheapest Model 3.

[oldgoldy97]

HairySquatch can teach you how to hotwire.

Needs to be a mid-90s Cutlass.

[hairysasquatch]

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

HairySquatch can teach you how to hotwire.

Needs to be a mid-90s Cutlass.

Fordman can do me one better - just steal the vehicle during a test drive.

[Brobocop]

Originally Posted by hairysasquatch

Fordman can do me one better - just steal the vehicle during a test drive.

Legendary thread that one was. Is it still around or was it removed?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[33GHill]

Originally Posted by SearchPatrol

Live in Madison Wisconsin for perspective.

Yesterday went to 4 different dealerships.
Nisson
Kia
Honda
Ford

Think I saw 5-6 New cars. Maybe 100 total used. EVERY used car was priced higher than when it was new. All were from 2018 to now, all low mileage.

Today went to a different Nisson dealership. Had 12 new cars. Everyone of them $6,000 OVER invoice. I want a small Versa, $30,000 after tax title license and other fee's.

So I'm asking somebody in the new car business.

Do you think this is the "new normal"??
Or that these Versa will go back to the suggested retail price.
And if so, WHEN?

THANKS.

I'd stay away from any Nissan that has a CVT. I'm not sure if they solved the transmission problems that plagued pretty much all their cars/suv's equipped with the CVT transmission. Absolute ticking time bombs, some have gone out in less than 30K miles, just check out the various Nissan forums and you'll see.

I believe Toyota and Honda make a better CVT transmission but even then I'm personally not a fan of that rubber band feel. But then again, it's your money and so in the end get what you like and fits your needs. There are still some conventional automatic transmission equipped vehicles that get great mileage if that's what you're looking for. My 2020 Non-Hybrid Camry gets an insane 40+ Mpg on the highway (with a best of 49 mpg on a 400 mile trip on the highway) and 35 overall. That was 8 mpg better than the 4 cylinder 2010 Accord that it replaced.

Price wise, absolutely don't pay anything over MSRP. You can still get cars for MSRP, just need to be patient and do a little extra legwork.

[hairysasquatch]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

Legendary thread that one was. Is it still around or was it removed?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think it was something like What is your Shameless (as in the TV show) Moment?

[altaeria]

Originally Posted by fordman

Chips that make the infotainment systems work, heated/cooled seats, usb ports, digital dash, certain lighting systems, back up cameras, impact detection, airbag and many other (fringe) components are what are in short supply and most of those are from 3rd party suppliers.

Fordman

I am definitely old, because I don't find any of these "perks" appealing. If some US mamufacturer wants to get in the game with a new inexpensive basic model without dependency on all the foreign doohickeys -- now may be the best time to roll it out.

[hairysasquatch]

Originally Posted by altaeria

I am definitely old, because I don't find any of these "perks" appealing. If some US mamufacturer wants to get in the game with a new inexpensive basic model without dependency on all the foreign doohickeys -- now may be the best time to roll it out.

Back up cameras and motion detectors have saved me from a few incidents