Did WhatNot Open a FAKE 1986-87 Fleer Basketball Box at The National?

[pip]

Originally Posted by Asian62150

Sad. And a consequence of BBCE's response is enabling/promoting this behavior.

Some things just aren't meant to be authenticated at this time and as a hobby, we just need to be ok with that.

A bigger problem I think is that case/box/pack authentication is treated as a zero sum game.

[pip]

Originally Posted by FBCardFan

1. You can check the serial on PSAs site and click a screen shot with your phone and enlarge it.

That doesn't better resolve the corners. It just makes the given image larger but with the same resolution.

2. The 6 is a 6 because of the big white spot to the right of Jordan's name. It is an instant 6 according to PSAs standard guide.

I think you mean to the left of his name. PSA has never paid close attention to print quality. Just look at how they grade N172s. There's no way that would lower the condition of the card two full grades. Maybe half a grade at most in how PSA actually applies its standards.

[Archangel1775]

Originally Posted by Asian62150

If it's inventory control, then just say it's inventory control. Tell ppl "Sorry, I don't want to sell this to you because it's currently more valuable than the price I quoted you so I'm backing out of the deal. But if you want to give me even more money than what was already agreed upon, we can talk."

Don't tell ppl "we're out of stock" when you're not and then just end up posting it a few days later at higher prices.

We rip on ebay sellers that do this and list them here so people can block them. If anyone else does this, we should rip on them and everyone should know about it, too.

This is why I told the member to ask on another board. What is anyone going to do? It's their product and they could do what they want with it. The alarm bells go off for them when someone attempts to buy them out. They understand their reputation as a source of vintage unopened.

Originally Posted by FBCardFan

1. You can check the serial on PSAs site and click a screen shot with your phone and enlarge it.

2. The 6 is a 6 because of the big white spot to the right of Jordan's name. It is an instant 6 according to PSAs standard guide.

I see either extra paper or a slight lift on one of the top corners that extends down the edge. I'd take that as a PSA 6 price all day with that print dot.

[auburn35]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

This is why that empty box lot sold for $10k. It wasn’t for the case. It was for the boxes. Only takes one sale to rake in a massive profit. If you can figure out how to reseal the packs, you can’t get caught if you’re smart.

Hopefully BBCE saved some of those empty case/box photos for future reference.

[auburn35]

Originally Posted by pip

I think you mean to the left of his name. PSA has never paid close attention to print quality. Just look at how they grade N172s. There's no way that would lower the condition of the card two full grades. Maybe half a grade at most in how PSA actually applies its standards.

Yeah, PSA recently confirmed they don't care about print quality when they recertified that coffee stained PSA 10 Jordan RC for Goldin's consignor.

If this is a 10, the print quality on the Whatnot PSA 6 clearly wasn't the only issue.
https://www.psacard.com/cert/02000290

[pip]

Originally Posted by auburn35

Yeah, PSA recently confirmed they don't care about print quality when they recertified that coffee stained PSA 10 Jordan RC for Goldin's consignor.

If this is a 10, the print quality on the Whatnot PSA 6 clearly wasn't the only issue.
https://www.psacard.com/cert/02000290

And let's not forget about that Jupiter-sized print monstrosity on the back above the Bulls' logo. I guess by some accounts, that ought to lower the grade to almost a straight "authentic."

[Asian62150]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

This is why I told the member to ask on another board. What is anyone going to do? It's their product and they could do what they want with it. The alarm bells go off for them when someone attempts to buy them out. They understand their reputation as a source of vintage unopened.

Yes it's their product and they do what they want with it. I'm just saying be honest and upfront about it. Don't tell ppl you're out of stock when you're not.

And when you say "can you blame them?" Yes, you can blame them! If you agree to sell then sell. Are you ok when ebay sellers back out of deals and claim they're out of stock only to list later at a higher price?

[Siberian13]

Shocked something like this would happen on this hobby.

[jr24ai3]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

Yes, I'm familiar with Reed and the trust is 100% with him. He just happens to work for DA Card World right now. It doesn't have to be wrapped by BBCE. As long as Reed inspects it and gives a box his blessing, I'd be good with it. Personally, I believe it's time for him to open his own service if that's what he wants to do.




Inventory Control 100%. They don't like selling large lots to people. It doesn't matter who they are and could you really blame them? The same thing happened to me with the same sets. They were willing to sell me two though. I thought it was funny how a member here posted that they have their inventory listed on their website in in their catalog. No sir, they do not. They have what they are willing to sell listed and even then that's not guaranteed. It wasn't until after the auction started that the seller of the 1986 Fleer Basketball case was confirmed. I can't imagine what else they may have. Wasn't it for almost a decade that BBCE was offering $1k just to see pictures of a 1986 Fleer sealed case?

My order was for only two sets.

[Gary]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

This is why that empty box lot sold for $10k. It wasn’t for the case. It was for the boxes. Only takes one sale to rake in a massive profit. If you can figure out how to reseal the packs, you can’t get caught if you’re smart.

This right here is why Ebay should ban the sale of pack wrappers,empty box's and cases.Im a BBCE semi believer (if that makes sense) a wrapped BBCE box still imo has a much better chance of being "good" than a non wrapped box.When guys starting you tubing box rips showing the world sequencing ect it had unintended consequences unfortunately.

That said that 86 box had more issues than Steve wrote on that paper.Im no way an expert on 86 Fleer,but im old enough to say i opened a dozen or so back when absolutely nobody wanted the stuff i was buying boxes at $10 if my memory serves me correctly,it's a 70's disco era looking set everyone hated.in 89 when Beckett did that first monthly guide it was over,once money was introduced everything changed.

Some of what Steve wrote in that follow up was actually true,while Fleer was very good with coalition there were times when weird things happened.I remember puling doubles of cards in the same pack.Some packs with 2 sticker cards ect ect.I remember one pack where the cards were all facing the wrong way even.given when i bought and opened these there is no way they were tampered with,nobody wanted the stuff and i saw the lcs i bought them from taken FASC in front of me.So if i had boxes with anomaly's they did in fact happen right from Fleer.

[MJGOAT23]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

This is why I told the member to ask on another board. What is anyone going to do? It's their product and they could do what they want with it. The alarm bells go off for them when someone attempts to buy them out. They understand their reputation as a source of vintage unopened.



I see either extra paper or a slight lift on one of the top corners that extends down the edge. I'd take that as a PSA 6 price all day with that print dot.

Many Jordans have the tiny little ridge cut for a top corner. I would think even with the centering and the print defects front and back it's still a 7.

[2dueces]

Originally Posted by Gary

This right here is why Ebay should ban the sale of pack wrappers,empty box's and cases.Im a BBCE semi believer (if that makes sense) a wrapped BBCE box still imo has a much better chance of being "good" than a non wrapped box.When guys starting you tubing box rips showing the world sequencing ect it had unintended consequences unfortunately.

That said that 86 box had more issues than Steve wrote on that paper.Im no way an expert on 86 Fleer,but im old enough to say i opened a dozen or so back when absolutely nobody wanted the stuff i was buying boxes at $10 if my memory serves me correctly,it's a 70's disco era looking set everyone hated.in 89 when Beckett did that first monthly guide it was over,once money was introduced everything changed.

Some of what Steve wrote in that follow up was actually true,while Fleer was very good with coalition there were times when weird things happened.I remember puling doubles of cards in the same pack.Some packs with 2 sticker cards ect ect.I remember one pack where the cards were all facing the wrong way even.given when i bought and opened these there is no way they were tampered with,nobody wanted the stuff and i saw the lcs i bought them from taken FASC in front of me.So if i had boxes with anomaly's they did in fact happen right from Fleer.

We did a pack wars break in 1992 when packs were $25 in Vegas. They had a whole display of 86 Fleer. There were odd looking packs and a pack with 2 stickers and one with no sticker. We pulled 4 Jordan’s, the best graded a 7 because of centering and a Jordan sticker had an indentation. It’s still graded an 8 because of dead centering. At the time we didn’t know of coalition’s.
Heck Griffey JR rookies were more coveted at the time.

[pip]

Originally Posted by 2dueces

We did a pack wars break in 1992 when packs were $25 in Vegas. They had a whole display of 86 Fleer. There were odd looking packs and a pack with 2 stickers and one with no sticker. We pulled 4 Jordan’s, the best graded a 7 because of centering and a Jordan sticker had an indentation. It’s still graded an 8 because of dead centering. At the time we didn’t know of coalition’s.
Heck Griffey JR rookies were more coveted at the time.

As long as the Jordan has been $100+ there has been pack resealing. I know of one infamous dealer here in Canada who has been opening and resealing packs for a LONG time and he got his hands on a large number of boxes/cases.

Edited to add: he was also fond of selling his resealed boxes in Vegas since he loved to gamble and would frequently attend shows there. It wouldn't surprise me if you opened some of his frankenpacks.

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by 2dueces

We did a pack wars break in 1992 when packs were $25 in Vegas. They had a whole display of 86 Fleer. There were odd looking packs and a pack with 2 stickers and one with no sticker. We pulled 4 Jordan’s, the best graded a 7 because of centering and a Jordan sticker had an indentation. It’s still graded an 8 because of dead centering. At the time we didn’t know of coalition’s.
Heck Griffey JR rookies were more coveted at the time.

nope MJ was the man at that point

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by pip

And let's not forget about that Jupiter-sized print monstrosity on the back above the Bulls' logo. I guess by some accounts, that ought to lower the grade to almost a straight "authentic."

normally, the only serious consideration eye-appeal-wise is the front of this card, and PSA specifies that it allows for minor imperfections (for the grade) that don't affect eye appeal.

This just isn't a normal case, though. The back of the card does actually matter and this coffee-stain looking thing is a serious distraction in addition to being foreign elements.

(also that kind of print spot near the Bulls logo on the back isn't atypical for the card, the real doozies are the 9s-or-higher with that fish eye between his arm and face on the front)

[mrb842]

https://www.instagram.com/mnsportscardsshop/

bbce's reputation seems to be in tact.

[JAMSC]

Originally Posted by mrb842

https://www.instagram.com/mnsportscardsshop/

bbce's reputation seems to be in tact.

Someone rushing to BBCE right now to get stuff wrapped so they can send it directly to an auction house would make me not want to buy anything from them. Why would you do this unless you had resealed junk you need someone to fraudulently authenticate?

[theleica]

Originally Posted by JAMSC

Someone rushing to BBCE right now to get stuff wrapped so they can send it directly to an auction house would make me not want to buy anything from them. Why would you do this unless you had resealed junk you need someone to fraudulently authenticate?

It's a van full of cases. 30 cases I can count plus whatever is on the bottom row that can't be seen plus whatever single boxes can't be seen. BBCE authenticated all this in a work day?

[Archangel1775]

Originally Posted by theleica

It's a van full of cases. 30 cases I can count plus whatever is on the bottom row that can't be seen plus whatever single boxes can't be seen. BBCE authenticated all this in a work day?

Entirely depends on what they want wrapped. Is it the full cases or each individual box? I'm guessing it's the full cases for the majority of it. Another thing that makes it easy is if it's the ultra-modern stuff that already factory wrapped.

[JAMSC]

Originally Posted by theleica

It's a van full of cases. 30 cases I can count plus whatever is on the bottom row that can't be seen plus whatever single boxes can't be seen. BBCE authenticated all this in a work day?

Easy to do when you’re just taking money to wrap a box. BBCE’s “authentication” is worthless and backed by nothing.

[pip]

Originally Posted by JAMSC

Easy to do when you’re just taking money to wrap a box. BBCE’s “authentication” is worthless and backed by nothing.

Nat Turner's statement about reviewing cards outed on these forms was pretty memorable but BBCE's "We all got duped, agreed?" might have it beat.

[dgr81]

anyone else watching the sports card radio live stream right now?

[mc1]

Originally Posted by dgr81

anyone else watching the sports card radio live stream right now?

They broke the other 86-87 Fleer box? I saw the end. Looks like they pulled two base Jordans and 3 stickers. Did the collation appear normal?

[IronCladLou]

Originally Posted by mc1

They broke the other 86-87 Fleer box? I saw the end. Looks like they pulled two base Jordans and 3 stickers. Did the collation appear normal?

Believe so.

Cards looked finer than a warm, spring day...reprint worthy

[JAMSC]

Originally Posted by mc1

They broke the other 86-87 Fleer box? I saw the end. Looks like they pulled two base Jordans and 3 stickers. Did the collation appear normal?

So was this also a built box? Otherwise there should be 3 base Jordans.