Observations on the current state of the hobby from a show this weekend

[Raleigh504]

Originally Posted by elsoblanco

What is currently the best show to attend in NC? Maybe a show with memorabilia for sale and not just cards.

Not trying to take away from Braves, but for me it depends on what you are looking for. The few shows I have been to and heard about they each offer different things. Even the same promoter/venue can vary a bit from show to show depending on the year and who all sets up.

[bravesfan#1]

Originally Posted by elsoblanco

What is currently the best show to attend in NC? Maybe a show with memorabilia for sale and not just cards.

Raleigh December show, usually a great atmosphere a couple weeks before Christmas. 300 tables of cards and I’ve seen quite a bit of memorabilia in the past (photos, posters, balls, bats, etc.). If you’re looking for nice, game-used items, we don’t see much of that on a regular basis though.

Hickory is the best overall venue with tons of tables. I’m interested to see how this show in 2023 does though. The show is usually a mega show with 300 tables of toys and 300 tables of cards. There will be individual shows for toys and cards next year, so attendance on a per show basis will probably be down.

[abbeyroadwalker]

@BravesFan1

I highly recommend the Inside Pitch shows, esp the one at Hickory Metromont Center. I've sold there and bought there many times. There are like 100-120 tables every time. There are 3 or 4 high volume wax vendors, each with 5 or 6 tables full. There are 3 or 4 trustworthy vendors selling vintage player and modern player autographed bats, balls, jerseys, etc. There's always a good mix of expensive vintage slab vendors, and mid-priced modern stuff, and also many weekend warriors cheaply dumping their recent pack hits. There's 3 or 4 friendly older guys with books full of 50's, 60's, 70's commons to build out your vintage sets. Always negotiable and happy to discount. The venue is easy to find and get into, literally just one minute off I-40, exit 125. No traffic hassle at all. There's lots of good fast food close by and there's chow in the venue too. The hall is large, so you never feel covered up by the crowds. And even better, the promoter usually does a vintage Toy Show in the other room, in case you also collect Marvel, Star Wars, old toys, old comics, Hot Wheels, etc. It really is the perfect setup in every way..! (And no, I'm not the promoter's son, just a 30 year veteran of collecting)

[Raleigh504]

Originally Posted by Raleigh504

AS OF NOW 2023 NC SHOWS (various Promoters):

Jan 7th & 8th - Raleigh (Fairgrounds IP)
Jan 7th - Charlotte (Hilton Executive Park CCG)
Jan 14th - Hickory (Convention IP)
Jan 21st & 22nd - Salisbury (West End Plaza SWP)
Feb 18th - Salisbury (West End Plaza IP)
Feb 25th & 26th - Raleigh (Fairgrounds TW)
Mar 4th - Charlotte (Hilton Executive Park CCG)
Apr 1st - Salisbury (West End Plaza SWP)
Apr 1st - Hickory (Convention IP)
Apr 7th & 8th - Winston-Salem (Fairgrounds IP)
May 6th - Charlotte (Hilton Executive Park CCG)
May 20th - Hickory (Convention IP)
June 2nd to 4th - "HOBBY DAZE" Charlotte (SWP)
June 10th - Salisbury (West End Plaza IP)
June 17th & 18th - Raleigh (Fairground IP)
July 15th - Mooresville (CMC SWP)
July 21st to 23rd - Raleigh (Fairgrounds TW)
Aug 19th - Hickory (Convention IP)
Sep 9th - Charlotte (Hilton Executive Park CCG)
Sep 16th & 17th - Raleigh (Fairground IP)
Sept 23rd & 24th - Mooresville (CMC SWP)
Oct 7th - Hickory (Convention IP) - Comics
Oct 14th - Hickory (Convention IP)
Oct 21st - Salisbury (West End Plaza SWP)
Nov 4th - Charlotte (Hilton Executive Park CCG)
Nov 11th & 12th - Raleigh (Fairground IP)
Nov 11th & 12th - Morrisville (CMC SWP)
Nov 18th - Salisbury (West End Plaza IP)
Dec 8th to 10th - Raleigh (Fairgrounds TW)
Dec 15th & 16th - Winston-Salem (Fairgrounds IP)



SportsWaxPromotions - SWP
Inside Pitch - IP
Tidewater Collectibles - TW
CLTCardGuy - CCG

May color code if I keep this list updated for 2023

Added some more

[djolley86]

Does anyone in NC know why Insidepitch doesn't run the Charlotte shows at the Park Expo Center anymore? I think the last one was in 2019. It is pretty frustrating to have to drive to Hickory/Salisbury for the closest show, and is very odd that we don't have a decent show in the largest city in NC.

I felt the one run by the new promotor at the Hilton was incredibly subpar - way too small of a venue, so no plans to go back to that one again. Thanks!

[bravesfan#1]

Originally Posted by abbeyroadwalker

@BravesFan1

I highly recommend the Inside Pitch shows, esp the one at Hickory Metromont Center. I've sold there and bought there many times. There are like 100-120 tables every time. There are 3 or 4 high volume wax vendors, each with 5 or 6 tables full. There are 3 or 4 trustworthy vendors selling vintage player and modern player autographed bats, balls, jerseys, etc. There's always a good mix of expensive vintage slab vendors, and mid-priced modern stuff, and also many weekend warriors cheaply dumping their recent pack hits. There's 3 or 4 friendly older guys with books full of 50's, 60's, 70's commons to build out your vintage sets. Always negotiable and happy to discount. The venue is easy to find and get into, literally just one minute off I-40, exit 125. No traffic hassle at all. There's lots of good fast food close by and there's chow in the venue too. The hall is large, so you never feel covered up by the crowds. And even better, the promoter usually does a vintage Toy Show in the other room, in case you also collect Marvel, Star Wars, old toys, old comics, Hot Wheels, etc. It really is the perfect setup in every way..! (And no, I'm not the promoter's son, just a 30 year veteran of collecting)

I’ve been a vendor with Inside Pitch and his predecessor’s since the 90’s

[bravesfan#1]

Originally Posted by djolley86

Does anyone in NC know why Insidepitch doesn't run the Charlotte shows at the Park Expo Center anymore? I think the last one was in 2019. It is pretty frustrating to have to drive to Hickory/Salisbury for the closest show, and is very odd that we don't have a decent show in the largest city in NC.

I felt the one run by the new promotor at the Hilton was incredibly subpar - way too small of a venue, so no plans to go back to that one again. Thanks!

Covid ruined it for Charlotte and Greensboro shows. Prices to setup at those venues were unreal when they opened back up, plus capacity limits were too strict compared to Raleigh/Hickory venues.

Wes has been vocal about not over-saturating the local card shows, a couple new promoters don’t get that.

I sure miss the Metrolina Center in Charlotte!

[Donkaylove]

saturation at its finest.

[Raleigh504]

Originally Posted by djolley86

Does anyone in NC know why Insidepitch doesn't run the Charlotte shows at the Park Expo Center anymore? I think the last one was in 2019. It is pretty frustrating to have to drive to Hickory/Salisbury for the closest show, and is very odd that we don't have a decent show in the largest city in NC.

I felt the one run by the new promotor at the Hilton was incredibly subpar - way too small of a venue, so no plans to go back to that one again. Thanks!

As a vendor/seller at that show (1st time setting up with him), I did like all tables having cloths on it and the price for a table being $50. The location was good off the highway too. Space was definitely small and the aisles were pretty tight for buyers

Originally Posted by bravesfan#1

Covid ruined it for Charlotte and Greensboro shows. Prices to setup at those venues were unreal when they opened back up, plus capacity limits were too strict compared to Raleigh/Hickory venues.

Wes has been vocal about not over-saturating the local card shows, a couple new promoters don’t get that.

I sure miss the Metrolina Center in Charlotte!

It would be one thing if these shows were spread out throughout the state where it was a must to go to since it is only one day. Not a fan of 2 day shows. Looking at the shows I listed (and I am sure there will be more too), I need to plan out which ones I will be attending as a seller. It is nice to have options but at the same time, I can see how many people will go to a show almost each month. Paying $60+ for a table is hard to justify if the attendance is lacking. I have set up at 4 shows this year (plan on setting up more in 2023) and made money at all but one of them.

It is weird that Salisbury has more shows than some of the bigger cities in NC.

As both of you and more have said about too many shows, I can see 2024 having a pull back on shows and promoters sticking to one area only. I just hope there isn't fatigue from collectors/buyers/sellers.

[solt0131]

Any show updates from this past weekend?

[HRderby22]

Originally Posted by solt0131

Any show updates from this past weekend?

I drove up to the show in Fort Wayne, IN Saturday and was pleasantly surprised by the crowd and the general vibe. 100 tables or so. It's the 3rd time I've been and it didn't seem like a huge drop off from the summer; at least until I left at noon.

I bought a handful of < $50 cards and the dealers I talked to seemed to be in good spirits. There's no doubt people were buying, but I wasn't able to deduce their total spend. Didn't see anyone buying wax and there was decent amount of it.

Dollar bins were busy. Dealers without prices on anything seemed pretty slow. More kids with their dads than I've seen in the past, so that's cool.

[Brazenways]

My observations from Toronto Sports Card Expo (Friday report):

- show was well attended but still plenty of room to browse individual tables
- tons of wax available, did not notice any more or less compared to last show
- dealers were friendly to chat with but some had that hint of arrogance with their collections
- on-site grading was dead. Went to check out prices and they were absurd (psa submitter charged 60$ shipping per order).

Now for the most important part the sales experience. I would say 75% of dealers were in no mood to haggle (context is pre-1980 baseball and hockey). Sample size of roughly 20 transactions all above 250$ (All prices Canadian). Example 1 graded baseball card with a sticker of 475$. Buddy pulls it out and indicates if your serious my price is 450$. I knew the comps on the card and came back with 375$, buddy put it back in case no further discussion.

Similar experience on hockey, sticker of 875$ well above latest comps - dealer said he would give me to at 825$ as a steal. Is it what it is, it’s their card so not salty about it just odd how tight folks were to their sticker.

The positive cases were from the smaller collection sellers. I figured maybe they had a smaller bank roll not sure but they were willing to at least haggle from sticker. Am friends with a handful and they all mentioned the same thing, not many casual buyers like in years past.

Last thing noted. Very few dealers buying from what I saw. I missed the prior night where majority of deals are had especially between dealers but Friday night I personally only saw one consumer to dealer sale.

All in all, I enjoyed the show and will attend the next iteration in June. Given the time lag between shows would expect a smaller correction from today.

[solt0131]

Originally Posted by Brazenways

My observations from Toronto Sports Card Expo (Friday report):

- show was well attended but still plenty of room to browse individual tables
- tons of wax available, did not notice any more or less compared to last show
- dealers were friendly to chat with but some had that hint of arrogance with their collections
- on-site grading was dead. Went to check out prices and they were absurd (psa submitter charged 60$ shipping per order).

Now for the most important part the sales experience. I would say 75% of dealers were in no mood to haggle (context is pre-1980 baseball and hockey). Sample size of roughly 20 transactions all above 250$ (All prices Canadian). Example 1 graded baseball card with a sticker of 475$. Buddy pulls it out and indicates if your serious my price is 450$. I knew the comps on the card and came back with 375$, buddy put it back in case no further discussion.

Similar experience on hockey, sticker of 875$ well above latest comps - dealer said he would give me to at 825$ as a steal. Is it what it is, it’s their card so not salty about it just odd how tight folks were to their sticker.

The positive cases were from the smaller collection sellers. I figured maybe they had a smaller bank roll not sure but they were willing to at least haggle from sticker. Am friends with a handful and they all mentioned the same thing, not many casual buyers like in years past.

Last thing noted. Very few dealers buying from what I saw. I missed the prior night where majority of deals are had especially between dealers but Friday night I personally only saw one consumer to dealer sale.

All in all, I enjoyed the show and will attend the next iteration in June. Given the time lag between shows would expect a smaller correction from today.

You bring up a great point and it's something I am seeing more and more now....very few dealer to dealer sales. I believe this leads to the reason some dealers have become less sociable when dealing.

A year ago or more, most dealers had enough money in their pockets from dealer to dealer sales so they were a lot more personable to the public.....not so much anymore.

Dealer buying has tightened up dramatically.

[dbhoops5002]

What is everyone's predictions for the Chicago Sports Spectacular this weekend? The last two shows were very good with high attendance and lots of money exchanging hands. I will be set up for the 9 straight time, but am not sure what to expect with what others are experiencing at big shows around the country.

[SupermanBrandon]

Originally Posted by dbhoops5002

What is everyone's predictions for the Chicago Sports Spectacular this weekend? The last two shows were very good with high attendance and lots of money exchanging hands. I will be set up for the 9 straight time, but am not sure what to expect with what others are experiencing at big shows around the country.

Great Crowd
Dealers Not Budging
Attendees Trying to Sell To Dealers
Dealers Not Buying
Low End Cards Will Do Well
Lots Of People Kicking Tires, Wasting Time, Looking at Cards They Can't Afford
...rinse and repeat for the next show.

[vintg]

Originally Posted by dbhoops5002

What is everyone's predictions for the Chicago Sports Spectacular this weekend? The last two shows were very good with high attendance and lots of money exchanging hands. I will be set up for the 9 straight time, but am not sure what to expect with what others are experiencing at big shows around the country.

i can't wait !!! 25 minutes from my house. been chomping at the bit waiting
for this one.

will be there as early as i can on friday.

[abbeyroadwalker]

Originally Posted by bravesfan#1

I’ve been a vendor with Inside Pitch and his predecessor’s since the 90’s

Small World..! Then I'm sure we know each other - at least by face, if not by name! I did Hickory too 10 or 12 time btw 2016 and 2021.

[abbeyroadwalker]

There's also one coming up in Asheville, at the WNC Ag center (near the airport) on Dec 3rd. 250 Tables!
Christmas Season always brings some good opportunities for selling AND buying! Good bet that most of the 11-30 new releases will be all over the place!!!

[Mantlefan]

I went to a show this weekend. My LCS owner and a few dealers were bragging about all the stuff that has been coming into their shop because people just hard up for money and bragging how they can’t even keep cash because all the amazing deals they are getting. Just rubs me the wrong way. I’m in the minority, but listen to dealers go on and on about how much money they were making during the pandemic, and now how much money they are making. I don’t know . What do all think?

[byronscott4ever]

Originally Posted by Mantlefan

I went to his show this weekend. My LCS owner and a few dealers were bragging about all the stuff that has been coming into their shop because people just hard up for money and bragging how they can’t even keep cash because all the amazing deals they are getting. Just rubs me the wrong way. I’m in the minority, but listen to dealers go on and on about how much money they were making during the pandemic, and now how much money they are making. I don’t know . What do all think?

Are you upset how they seem to be happy about people needing money? I get that although it’s always been a thing (my friend buys collections and for years has seen this play out)

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by Mantlefan

I went to a show this weekend. My LCS owner and a few dealers were bragging about all the stuff that has been coming into their shop because people just hard up for money and bragging how they can’t even keep cash because all the amazing deals they are getting. Just rubs me the wrong way. I’m in the minority, but listen to dealers go on and on about how much money they were making during the pandemic, and now how much money they are making. I don’t know . What do all think?

The hobby isn’t a charity.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by Mantlefan

I went to a show this weekend. My LCS owner and a few dealers were bragging about all the stuff that has been coming into their shop because people just hard up for money and bragging how they can’t even keep cash because all the amazing deals they are getting.

Amazing deal are in the eye of the holder, especially when they're the ones shelling out the cash to buy perceived bargains.

They've still got to figure out how to re-sell all that stuff that's coming in for a profit. Easier said than done....

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by Mantlefan

I went to a show this weekend. My LCS owner and a few dealers were bragging about all the stuff that has been coming into their shop because people just hard up for money and bragging how they can’t even keep cash because all the amazing deals they are getting. Just rubs me the wrong way. I’m in the minority, but listen to dealers go on and on about how much money they were making during the pandemic, and now how much money they are making. I don’t know . What do all think?

Most everyone selling cards is mostly an opportunist. This is certainly very bad for the hobby, wish they’d become opportunistic somewhere else. Although having classy dealers (unlike this guy) would be great, especially ones that don’t take advantage of the hobby.

[imbluestreak23]

I wish we had more Upper Deck

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

The hobby isn’t a charity.

We know you wouldn’t be here if it was.