What makes a product good or bad?

[dashcol]

What makes a product good or bad is a very subjective question. Each collector has their own staples that they look for in a product that others may not. Take Logofractor for one, many people seemed to love it and had it as product of the year, but I do not like it at all.

Flippers and many Investors it is only about the money. They do not care at all about anything else in the set, only if there is a profit to be made in it.

For me a “good” product has these attributes in this order:

1) Great design
2) Good checklist (mix of vets, rookies and possibly past players)
3) Print run
4) Checklist is no more than 350 cards
5) A limited number of parallels (No need for a wave version of every parallel, and don’t need more colors than a rainbow)
6) At least one fun chase card (SP, case hit inserts)
7) No redemptions

[dashcol]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

in reality its just price and nothing else. Take the worst product rollouts of the last 2 years and make them sufficiently cheap and it will be considered an amazing product, take the most succesfull rollouts and increase the price enough and they will be considered bad products.

Take topps Chrome: there exists price points at which it is an amazing products (will likely never be realized) and price points where it nears all time worst ever (was realized)

Then why doesn’t Big League sell out? It can’t even be sold on clearance. So price is not everything.

Just look at cheap boxes that can’t be gotten rid of:

2021 Collectors Box Big League - $18
2021 Hobby Box Big League - $20
2020 Collectors Box Big League - $25
2020 Hobby Box Big League - $30
2020 Retail Box Topps Update - $40
2020 Hobby Box Heritage High -$47
2021 Hobby Box Topps Update - $47
2014 Hobby Box Panini Golden Age - $50
2020 Hobby Box Topps Update - $50
2021 Hobby Box Topps Series 2 - $50
2022 Hobby Box Heritage Minors - $50

Then there are good ones that are considered good products that are cheap and don’t sell out:

2021 Lite Box Topps Chrome Anniversary - $45

And that’s just the stuff $50 and under right now. So I think price plays into it less than what a lot of people think.

[eye4talent]

When opening packs, I want a good opportunity to pull autographs and some interesting parallels.

But I mainly like a base set to look good and have a low production run, with parallels (but not too many parallels) that are distinctive.

Personally, I don’t care for the elaborate graphic designs of Finest, Bowman’s Best, Fire, Inception, Cosmic, yada yada yada… Give me a photo that does the visual work, and either a border or a small dashboard, and I’m good to go.

So, 2021 Stadium Club Chrome is probably the closest thing to an ideal release for me.


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[mfw13]

Originally Posted by dashcol

Then why doesn’t Big League sell out? It can’t even be sold on clearance. So price is not everything.

Just look at cheap boxes that can’t be gotten rid of:

2021 Collectors Box Big League - $18
2021 Hobby Box Big League - $20
2020 Collectors Box Big League - $25
2020 Hobby Box Big League - $30
2020 Retail Box Topps Update - $40
2020 Hobby Box Heritage High -$47
2021 Hobby Box Topps Update - $47
2014 Hobby Box Panini Golden Age - $50
2020 Hobby Box Topps Update - $50
2021 Hobby Box Topps Series 2 - $50
2022 Hobby Box Heritage Minors - $50

Then there are good ones that are considered good products that are cheap and don’t sell out:

2021 Lite Box Topps Chrome Anniversary - $45

And that’s just the stuff $50 and under right now. So I think price plays into it less than what a lot of people think.

Agreed.

Price is part of the equation....but so is design and checklist quality.

[OneSickDegen]

Sticker autos on anything are the nut low and should be forever disrespected.

[pewe]

Good = history

Bad = flash in the pan money grabs


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[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by dashcol

What makes a product good or bad is a very subjective question. Each collector has their own staples that they look for in a product that others may not. Take Logofractor for one, many people seemed to love it and had it as product of the year, but I do not like it at all.

Flippers and many Investors it is only about the money. They do not care at all about anything else in the set, only if there is a profit to be made in it.

For me a “good” product has these attributes in this order:

1) Great design
2) Good checklist (mix of vets, rookies and possibly past players)
3) Print run
4) Checklist is no more than 350 cards
5) A limited number of parallels (No need for a wave version of every parallel, and don’t need more colors than a rainbow)
6) At least one fun chase card (SP, case hit inserts)
7) No redemptions

Lol, yes, flippers would buy poop for a $1 if they could flip it for $2.

[wood minis]

Design for sure, quality stock, printing and cutting, not overproduced, and not inundated with parallels.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Lol, yes, flippers would buy poop for a $1 if they could flip it for $2.

Like raccoons -- otherwise known as trash pandas -- they'll eat anything.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Like raccoons -- otherwise known as trash pandas -- they'll eat anything.

All for the goal of “ funding their hobby, without which they could not afford to collect.”

Those poor souls! Bless their hearts!

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by dashcol

Then why doesn’t Big League sell out? It can’t even be sold on clearance. So price is not everything.

Just look at cheap boxes that can’t be gotten rid of:

2021 Collectors Box Big League - $18
2021 Hobby Box Big League - $20
2020 Collectors Box Big League - $25
2020 Hobby Box Big League - $30
2020 Retail Box Topps Update - $40
2020 Hobby Box Heritage High -$47
2021 Hobby Box Topps Update - $47
2014 Hobby Box Panini Golden Age - $50
2020 Hobby Box Topps Update - $50
2021 Hobby Box Topps Series 2 - $50
2022 Hobby Box Heritage Minors - $50

Then there are good ones that are considered good products that are cheap and don’t sell out:

2021 Lite Box Topps Chrome Anniversary - $45

And that’s just the stuff $50 and under right now. So I think price plays into it less than what a lot of people think.

simple answer, none of these are cheap enough. If big league was $5 a box it would probably be a good product?

[dashcol]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

simple answer, none of these are cheap enough. If big league was $5 a box it would probably be a good product?

No. Big league will never be a good product. At $5 will it sell? Sure, probably. Why not add $5 to an order with the chance of hitting an auto or maybe $5 parallel. Even Trout parallel autos are only a $200 card on the best of days.

There is a HUGE difference between a set that is good and one that is slightly profitable.

Profitable does not equal good.

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by dashcol

No. Big league will never be a good product. At $5 will it sell? Sure, probably. Why not add $5 to an order with the chance of hitting an auto or maybe $5 parallel. Even Trout parallel autos are only a $200 card on the best of days.

There is a HUGE difference between a set that is good and one that is slightly profitable.

Profitable does not equal good.

If i could let my kid rip 20 boxes for $100 and hit a few autos along the way I'd consider that a good product albeit for different reasons then what traditionally defines a product as good. But goes back to my point that there exists a price point at which every product can be considered good.

[netmasters]

Originally Posted by dashcol

What makes a product good or bad is a very subjective question. Each collector has their own staples that they look for in a product that others may not. Take Logofractor for one, many people seemed to love it and had it as product of the year, but I do not like it at all.

Flippers and many Investors it is only about the money. They do not care at all about anything else in the set, only if there is a profit to be made in it.

For me a “good” product has these attributes in this order:

1) Great design
2) Good checklist (mix of vets, rookies and possibly past players)
3) Print run
4) Checklist is no more than 350 cards
5) A limited number of parallels (No need for a wave version of every parallel, and don’t need more colors than a rainbow)
6) At least one fun chase card (SP, case hit inserts)
7) No redemptions

Which of those does Logofractor fail on? It seems to be everything you want. I guess there were a few Oneil redepmptions but I can't imagine that would disqualify it?

[dashcol]

Originally Posted by netmasters

Which of those does Logofractor fail on? It seems to be everything you want. I guess there were a few Oneil redepmptions but I can't imagine that would disqualify it?

For me it fails on #1. I really dislike the MLB logo impressed over the image. Design is the most important thing to me as a collector, and if I don’t like it, then I don’t consider it good. But what is not good for me is great for others.


As for all the other categories:

1) Great design fail IMO
2) Good checklist (mix of vets, rookies and possibly past players) weak on rookies
3) Print run low print run
4) Checklist is no more than 350 cards 110 cards, great amount
5) A limited number of parallels (No need for a wave version of every parallel, and don’t need more colors than a rainbow) 8 parallels, good amount
6) At least one fun chase card (SP, case hit inserts) rookie SPs, no great inserts
7) No redemptions very few

So fail on #1, somewhat fail on #2
Good on #5, 6 and 7
Great on #3 and 4

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by netmasters

Which of those does Logofractor fail on? It seems to be everything you want. I guess there were a few Oneil redepmptions but I can't imagine that would disqualify it?

If thats your checklist then surely definitive is the greatest product of all time. And Diamond Icons is 100x better then logo fractor. The main reason logo factor was a hit was because it was $50 at release. If Topps came out at $200 it would in the running for worst product of the year.

[Bambino22]

Great topic!

Here is my list:
1. Quality design
2. Unique design
3. Random cards - no marking of super packs, true randomness of where all big hits are boxes that ship out
4. On card autos
5. Quality variations or star inserts
6. Box price reasonable
7. Good centering on all cards
8. Has a history of success / favorability with community

[Archangel1775]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

$3 a pack, max

I'd like to challenge your commitment and offer $3 for every 2018 Topps Update hobby pack you own.

[Pacmeyer]

Originally Posted by dashcol

For me it fails on #1. I really dislike the MLB logo impressed over the image. Design is the most important thing to me as a collector, and if I don’t like it, then I don’t consider it good. But what is not good for me is great for others.

In a normal chrome year, logofractor would have been another mega box with people arguing it should be $20. But Topps hit upon a winning formula as most of its customers seem to love having logos all over their cards.

[dashcol]

Originally Posted by Pacmeyer

In a normal chrome year, logofractor would have been another mega box with people arguing it should be $20. But Topps hit upon a winning formula as most of its customers seem to love having logos all over their cards.

Like I said, to each their own, it’s just not for me. If others like it then great! To me it’s just not a good product. Others have made a lot of money off it and others have really enjoyed it and I’m glad for them.

Great thing about this hobby is there is so many different options, almost everyone can find something they like.

I also agree this would normally be a parallel release at $20 Mega boxes. Such is the time we live in though. I also don’t think it would have been as popular as it is had the regular issue not had so many QC issues with it. Baseball Card fans tend to be traditionalists, and things like this fail, unless the staple product failed.

[NYJNYYFan]

Here’s my criteria:

Nice design and some cool inserts

Good rookie checklist

Guaranteed hits: Autos / #d parallels

[tonedef2oo8]

What makes a product awful? Put the name leaf or razor on th me box.