2023 NBA MVP Thread

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by daeve

Remind me what Jokic' betting odds were at the beginning of the season again?

Again - these exist to make people bet, to make money. Stop getting fooled

he's only stating the latest odds, but again:

Originally Posted by GOATcards

Joker is still way ahead in the b-ref Tracker. What this looks like, then, is a lot of people without the best arguments looking for some pretext to deny him a 3rd straight MVP

the least they could do is explain how the metrics over-value assists for Centers, or how Jamal Murray's awful shooting of late can be attributed to Joker, or something more interesting/challenging than the usual stuff that even an NPC like go,mi amigo can spout

[pingbling23]

Originally Posted by GOATcards

you're the one who said "He’s recently had four straight games where he scored 14, 18, 17, and 18. That’s inconsistent and not mvp like."

Instead of digging yourself deeper by shifting the onus onto me, how about explaining how those scoring numbers in context are automatically not mvp-like.

You can’t admit it can you? Poster acted like it was a conspiracy that embiid and Giannis were gaining ground. I looked at each players stats over the past few weeks. It’s clear why they have gained ground and pointed that out. It’s inconsistent and not mvp like because it’s under his averages and under most second options averages. It’s not to say they are bad games in general, just sub par of his standard and of an mvp. If other mvp competition wasn’t putting up monster games and winning then you all would have a defense of his weaker games.

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by pingbling23

You can’t admit it can you? Poster acted like it was a conspiracy that embiid and Giannis were gaining ground. I looked at each players stats over the past few weeks. It’s clear why they have gained ground and pointed that out. It’s inconsistent and not mvp like because it’s under his averages and under most second options averages. It’s not to say they are bad games in general, just sub par of his standard and of an mvp. If other mvp competition wasn’t putting up monster games and winning then you all would have a defense of his weaker games.

the scoring was under his average - and how much under his average would it have to be to no longer be mvp-like? - whereas his other stats didn't seem to be under average, and his team was winning, so you're still left having to explain how his below-20 scoring numbers, in context, were automatically not mvp-like. Please stop wasting time evading the point thanks

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Your omission of Zion has me questioning the integrity of your celebration of diversity.

nothing against disability per se, it just goes against my values in an MVP Award Shares / VORP / eW / b-ref Tracker context

[pingbling23]

Originally Posted by GOATcards

the scoring was under his average - and how much under his average would it have to be to no longer be mvp-like? - whereas his other stats didn't seem to be under average, and his team was winning, so you're still left having to explain how his below-20 scoring numbers, in context, were automatically not mvp-like. Please stop wasting time evading the point thanks

Please stop evading my original point, thanks. Joker fans are uptight lately. And it’s due to the point I made earlier that you’re clearly ignoring. Your welcome.

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by pingbling23

Please stop evading my original point, thanks. Joker fans are uptight lately. And it’s due to the point I made earlier that you’re clearly ignoring. Your welcome.

you said that scoring under 20 is automatically not MVP-like, a claim you don't care to actually defend.

also I'm a fan of Joker as well as any other player that isn't a jerk etc

[pingbling23]

Originally Posted by GOATcards

you said that scoring under 20 is automatically not MVP-like, a claim you don't care to actually defend.

also I'm a fan of Joker as well as any other player that isn't a jerk etc

Nah, had a detailed explanation typed out but you’re right, I don’t care enough to post it since you are intentionally ignoring that both embiid and Giannis have been the better players leading to better team success over the past 2 weeks leading to a change in betting odds. That’s what a rational person sees, not a Vegas/espn conspiracy. But you take issue and want me to defend how jokic having a four game stretch averaging less then 17 ppg then a 4 game losing streak is inconsistent and not mvp like lol.

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by pingbling23

Nah, had a detailed explanation typed out but you’re right, I don’t care enough to post it since you are intentionally ignoring that both embiid and Giannis have been the better players leading to better team success over the past 2 weeks leading to a change in betting odds. That’s what a rational person sees, not a Vegas/espn conspiracy. But you take issue and want me to defend how jokic having a four game stretch averaging less then 17 ppg then a 4 game losing streak is inconsistent and not mvp like lol.

i haven't been ignoring anything, you're just making that up. The only point was that you leapt to a conclusion that games of under 20 points scored was, regardless of context, automatically not mvp-like, and I asked for higher-IQ posting than that.

I'm no conspiracy theorist about this, it's quite out in the open that people are providing different rationales for MVP-ness at the moment than what is revealed in the b-ref Tracker. Not being so logical, and irrational exuberance, is all too often right out there in the open with human beings, it's the simplest and best explanation for how Joker's Vegas odds are so out of whack compared to the Tracker.

[gomiamigo]

Embiid is the favorite as he should have been all along. The conspiracy was the earlier straw poll when he had 6 votes for first. But his excellence above all others has been so undeniable for so long now it's hard to pick anyone else unless doughy white guys who can't play D are your 'personal hero.'

Games remain, of course.

FD odds as of now:

Embiid -100
Jokic +160
Giannis +370

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by gomiamigo

Embiid is the favorite as he should have been all along. The conspiracy was the earlier straw poll when he had 6 votes for first. But his excellence above all others has been so undeniable for so long now it's hard to pick anyone else unless doughy white guys who can't play D are your 'personal hero.'

Games remain, of course.

FD odds as of now:

Embiid -100
Jokic +160
Giannis +370

With odds at 160 today at Mohegan, I had no choice. Plunked down $35,000 to win $56,000 on Jokic. Sat here for a few hours and thought about it - 10 days ago the media narrative was that the race was over and the award was wrapped up and after two 35 point TD's, Embiid was the new favoirte.

Jokic has lost four in a row. When Embiid lost 3 in a row three weeks ago, nobody cared all that much and I'm confident when the season is over and this bad stretch has concluded (which I believe it has), the guy having the best shooting season in NBA history will be the MVP.

Fingers crossed.

[gomiamigo]

I tell you what that Joke can really outplay James Wiseman at times.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by gomiamigo

I tell you what that Joke can really outplay James Wiseman at times.

You spend too much time hating on a great player. Focus the enegry on propping up Embiid; you'll be happier.

[daeve]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

With odds at 160 today at Mohegan, I had no choice. Plunked down $35,000 to win $56,000 on Jokic. Sat here for a few hours and thought about it - 10 days ago the media narrative was that the race was over and the award was wrapped up and after two 35 point TD's, Embiid was the new favoirte.

Jokic has lost four in a row. When Embiid lost 3 in a row three weeks ago, nobody cared all that much and I'm confident when the season is over and this bad stretch has concluded (which I believe it has), the guy having the best shooting season in NBA history will be the MVP.

Fingers crossed.

I like that bet. And with the losing streak done, hopefully the long national nightmare is over - as the dumb narratives should subside now

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by daeve

I like that bet. And with the losing streak done, hopefully the long national nightmare is over - as the dumb narratives should subside now

We'll see. They do need to finish up this road trip with 2 more wins (split the NY ticket, win in WAS) and then we should revert back to the historical season once again.

Curry won MVP unanimously with a lower TS% than Jokic this year + the triple double average. Jokic has 7 more wins than Embiid this year. I'm going to kick back, hope that logic prevails and of course sweat the last PHI/DEN game because the takes will be insufferable both ways. God I wish the playoffs were here already.

[19royaldecker87]

Originally Posted by gomiamigo

I tell you what that Joke can really outplay James Wiseman at times.

Jokic a joke? um ok. lol you must be an Embiid fan lol

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

You spend too much time hating on a great player. Focus the enegry on propping up Embiid; you'll be happier.

it's one thing to prop up one's favorites, it's another thing to antagonize those who like another, rival player.

amigo is poison

(mucking around in a thread I started, attention thief...)

[The Accountant]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

With odds at 160 today at Mohegan, I had no choice. Plunked down $35,000 to win $56,000 on Jokic. Sat here for a few hours and thought about it - 10 days ago the media narrative was that the race was over and the award was wrapped up and after two 35 point TD's, Embiid was the new favoirte.

Jokic has lost four in a row. When Embiid lost 3 in a row three weeks ago, nobody cared all that much and I'm confident when the season is over and this bad stretch has concluded (which I believe it has), the guy having the best shooting season in NBA history will be the MVP.

Fingers crossed.

Sheesh, honestly I’m hedging my Embiid payouts now while I can. Anything can happen especially with a lot of marquee matchups on the horizon. For your sake I hope you get your money. Buy all the fans around the forum a drink maybe?

Honestly, it’s a smart bet with a high chance to payout. As great as Jokic has been, he’s losing steam and their team is losing some bad games. You’re also fighting voter fatigue and a historic run from Embiid. If you truly think this is a lull (I do not), it’s going to pay off big.

Good luck buddy

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by The Accountant

Sheesh, honestly I’m hedging my Embiid payouts now while I can. Anything can happen especially with a lot of marquee matchups on the horizon. For your sake I hope you get your money. Buy all the fans around the forum a drink maybe?

Honestly, it’s a smart bet with a high chance to payout. As great as Jokic has been, he’s losing steam and their team is losing some bad games. You’re also fighting voter fatigue and a historic run from Embiid. If you truly think this is a lull (I do not), it’s going to pay off big.

Good luck buddy

Jokic wins, you find yourself in central CT, you ping me. Drinks on me.

The straw poll finding Jokic dominating on Feb 1st suggests to me the media has no trouble giving him 3 in a row. For him to lose, roughly half of those voters would have had to be swayed to Embiid; and since that poll, Jokic has done nothing but put up even better #'s.

I admit if Denver continues an implosion, he will lose. But I'm confident that will not happen, Denver will close the last 12 games at 8-4 (4-3 road / 4-1 home) and will win the West by 5 games, thus sealing a third straight MVP.

[GOATcards]

no vegas odds on award share?

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by GOATcards

no vegas odds on award share?

Too dangerous a wager to offer. Can easily be manipulated by a small voting bloc.

[rhigh2390]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Jokic wins, you find yourself in central CT, you ping me. Drinks on me.

The straw poll finding Jokic dominating on Feb 1st suggests to me the media has no trouble giving him 3 in a row. For him to lose, roughly half of those voters would have had to be swayed to Embiid; and since that poll, Jokic has done nothing but put up even better #'s.

I admit if Denver continues an implosion, he will lose. But I'm confident that will not happen, Denver will close the last 12 games at 8-4 (4-3 road / 4-1 home) and will win the West by 5 games, thus sealing a third straight MVP.

This is how I see it playing out as well.

[Nomad]

Jokic just doesn't have a very fluid game. TJ McConnel anyone?

[Above the Rim]

I know there is more to it than this, but some quick numbers I see.

FG% - Embiid 54%, Jokic 63%

REB - Embiid 10.2, Jokic 11.9

ASST - Embiid 4.1, Jokic 9.9

Looks good for Jokic.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by Above the Rim

I know there is more to it than this, but some quick numbers I see.

FG% - Embiid 54%, Jokic 63%

REB - Embiid 10.2, Jokic 11.9

ASST - Embiid 4.1, Jokic 9.9

Looks good for Jokic.

No dog in this fight, but leaving out Embiid's 9 more point per game seems iffy.

[rhigh2390]

Originally Posted by tjforce

No dog in this fight, but leaving out Embiid's 9 more point per game seems iffy.

Noticed that too. It's still Jokic for me, but the ppg definitely go to Embiid.