BGS

[Crab]

An SGC 10 has never moved the needle for people.
A CSG 10 has never moved the needle for people.
A BGS 10 does move the needle for people.

Now that a BGS 10 is actually attainable, I just can’t see why anyone would be submitting to CSG and SGC. Especially when CSG and SGC 9.5s basically result in the seller getting marginally higher than raw prices. Both the upside (BGS 10) and floor (BGS 9.5) for submitting clean raw cards to BGS is now astronomically higher compared to the other 2 companies

[mc1]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

Correct. Folks are overrating to this due to their own collection of BGS 9.5's. Sometimes you need to make difficult calls in order to "right the ship." I don't even like the company and can see this is the right call for them. As I mentioned above, though, I'd get rid of subgrades.

Making things more complicated isnt going to “right the ship”.

We will see.

Did you see how even quad 9.5s are now only Mint+? Brilliant!

[TBT]

Originally Posted by Crab

An SGC 10 has never moved the needle for people.
A CSG 10 has never moved the needle for people.
A BGS 10 does move the needle for people.

Now that a BGS 10 is actually attainable, I just can’t see why anyone would be submitting to CSG and SGC. Especially when CSG and SGC 9.5s basically result in the seller getting marginally higher than raw prices. Bith the upside (BGS 10) and floor (BGS 9.5) for submitting clean raw cards to BGS is now astronomically higher compared to the other 2 companies

Agree with this. But a BGS 10 can be made more attainable without doing anything to existing 9.5 Gem Mint cards. Just create BGS 10 Gem Mint+, eliminate existing BGS 10 Pristine, and make BGS 10 Black Label Pristine more attainable as well.

[HalfNipponese]

Jesus what the hell is going on at BGS. All they had to do was improve customer service and actually be present in the hobby. They waited so long to do anything that everyone has moved on. Listen to the F'ng customers for a change. Stop reacting to social media influencers and sack up.

The only thing that will fix this is giving people time to forget.

[2010GBPackers]

Originally Posted by TBT

BGS 9 - Mint
BGS 9.5 (gold label) - Gem Mint
BGS 10 (gold label) - Gem Mint+
BGS 10 (black label) - Pristine

That should be it. No one cares about Mint+. They didn’t need to do anything to the existing 9.5 grade. What is their plan to manage the fact that millions of 9.5s have a gem mint label but all new 9.5s will have a Mint+ label? That’s an insane unforced error.

I actually think that is where the change was needed - with the 9.5 grades. It's true, it will be odd to have old 9.5's having "gem mint" and the new ones having "mint+" but the fact is that the majority of the marketplace never saw these as "gem mint" cards anyway, and if they change the label it can correct some of the confusion. It was primarily collectors who were refusing to see the facts on the ground who were continuing to view these cards as "gem mint."

I'll add this as well, those complaining that this move "devalues thousands of cards" - well, what do you think was happening over the past 10 years as you held on to these cards? They were being devalued by the market the entire time, why are you mad now? BGS 9.5's continuously lost their luster (and value) month after month, year after year. And now that BGS is correcting this truth in the marketplace by making changes, it's their fault?

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by Crab

An SGC 10 has never moved the needle for people.
A CSG 10 has never moved the needle for people.
A BGS 10 does move the needle for people.

Now that a BGS 10 is actually attainable, I just can’t see why anyone would be submitting to CSG and SGC. Especially when CSG and SGC 9.5s basically result in the seller getting marginally higher than raw prices. Bith the upside (BGS 10) and floor (BGS 9.5) for submitting clean raw cards to BGS is now astronomically higher compared to the other 2 companies

A 10 is not that attainable.

85% of gem mint BGS slabs in existence are no longer gem mint under the new standards. That is terrible policy making.

These companies don’t understand that every new grade introduced subsequently devalues the grades below it.

A black label makes pristine worth less.

Pristine makes gem mint 10 worth less.

Gem mint 10 makes mint plus (former TG/min gem) worth less.

Mint plus makes mint worth less.

The only cards that might benefit from this are the TG+ and TG++. Nothing else is helped, and all the TG and min gem are hurt. Again, 85% of formerly gem mint cards assuming the standards don’t loosen.

[auburn35]

Beckett management is just too funny.
I trust Gemrates numbers but does anyone know if/where they added the 9.5's without subgrades in those totals?

Stopped tracking in 2021 but while researching black labels, roughly 25% of the grades issued from 2018-2020 (BGS, BVG and BAS) had no-sub grades.

[mc1]

https://twitter.com/beckettcollect/s...7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Clear as mud pal…

[TBT]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

I actually think that is where the change was needed - with the 9.5 grades. It's true, it will be odd to have old 9.5's having "gem mint" and the new ones having "mint+" but the fact is that the majority of the marketplace never saw these as "gem mint" cards anyway, and if they change the label it can correct some of the confusion. It was primarily collectors who were refusing to see the facts on the ground who were continuing to view these cards as "gem mint."

I'll add this as well, those complaining that this move "devalues thousands of cards" - well, what do you think was happening over the past 10 years as you held on to these cards? They were being devalued by the market the entire time, why are you mad now? BGS 9.5's continuously lost their luster (and value) month after month, year after year. And now that BGS is correcting this truth in the marketplace by making changes, it's their fault?

That’s true about BGS 9.5 Gem Mint cards that were “min gem”. They rightly have become less valuable than PSA 10s but maintained value above PSA 9s (which in many instances is also deserved in my opinion). But do you really look at a BGS 10/9.5/9.5/9.5 and think “a PSA 10 is in better condition”? Because I rarely do.

[Asian62150]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

A 10 is not that attainable.

85% of gem mint BGS slabs in existence are no longer gem mint under the new standards. That is terrible policy making.

These companies don’t understand that every new grade introduced subsequently devalues the grades below it.

A black label makes pristine worth less.

Pristine makes gem mint 10 worth less.

Gem mint 10 makes mint plus (former TG/min gem) worth less.

Mint plus makes mint worth less.

The only cards that might benefit from this are the TG+ and TG++. Nothing else is helped, and all the TG and min gem are hurt. Again, 85% of formerly gem mint cards assuming the standards don’t loosen.

Exactly.

And devaluing the millions of Beckett slabs out there is just going to erode your base of customers.

If I'm going to resub/reslab any of my 9.5 stuff, I'm better off sending to PSA, not BGS.

[Asian62150]

Originally Posted by auburn35

Beckett management is just too funny.
I trust Gemrates numbers but does anyone know if/where they added the 9.5's without subgrades in those totals?

Stopped tracking in 2021 but while researching black labels, roughly 25% of the grades issued from 2018-2020 (BGS, BVG and BAS) had no-sub grades.

Big picture: How does this affect Eagle Eye Joe???

[KhalDrogo]

BGS just validated what people have been saying for years.

A BGS 9.5 - min gem is not actually gem mint, and is an inferior slab to a PSA 10.

But they took that stupidity one step further, saying that a BGS 9.5 - true gem isn’t gem mint either!

This is a special kind of stupid that I didn’t think was possible even from these bozos.

[TBT]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

BGS just validated what people have been saying for years.

A BGS 9.5 - min gem is not actually gem mint, and is an inferior slab to a PSA 10.

But they took that stupidity one step further, saying that a BGS 9.5 - true gem isn’t gem mint either!

This is a special kind of stupid that I didn’t think was possible even from these bozos.

It’s next-level. As another poster said, it’s actually hard to imagine that the thought could have even been uttered, let alone executed.

[Havemercy]

Originally Posted by Crab

An SGC 10 has never moved the needle for people.
A CSG 10 has never moved the needle for people.
A BGS 10 does move the needle for people.

Now that a BGS 10 is actually attainable, I just can’t see why anyone would be submitting to CSG and SGC. Especially when CSG and SGC 9.5s basically result in the seller getting marginally higher than raw prices. Bith the upside (BGS 10) and floor (BGS 9.5) for submitting clean raw cards to BGS is now astronomically higher compared to the other 2 companies

Irrelevant to the grades, I wouldn't submit to BGS simply because of this stunt. Taking float money, long tat, nonexistent CS, the list was already long before they went out of their way to pull this. Won't buy BGS slabs, won't send another order, etc. Their like to negative comment ratio is almost 1:1 on Instagram. Not like it's just a small vocal minority that think it's stupid. Out of a 1000+ comments, maybe 5 are in favor?

[Scottish Punk]

I keep coming back to that Beckett is going to soften their grading in practice. You will see more 3 9.5s an 1 10 on cards to make sure they get more gem mints to match others gemrate. This would devalue current gem mints. If the keep the gem mint 10 "exclusive" than you will see a huge chunk of 9.5s. I don't see their value being any different than SGC/CSG 9.5s, but with those two you have a better shot at a 10 in that scenario. This is why I think they will start moving closer to 30% gem rate.

[atlcollector]

Not only would they be devaluing all the quad 9.5's, as well as the 3 9.5's with a 9, they would also be hurting the existing 10's values as well. Almost everything on the upper end of the scale would drop in value. They would have a massive class action lawsuit on their hands for all of the monetary loss that owners incurred. I don't see Beckett doing this.

[2010GBPackers]

Originally Posted by atlcollector

Not only would they be devaluing all the quad 9.5's, as well as the 3 9.5's with a 9, they would also be hurting the existing 10's values as well. Almost everything on the upper end of the scale would drop in value. They would have a massive class action lawsuit on their hands for all of the monetary loss that owners incurred. I don't see Beckett doing this.

What?! BGS assigns grades to cards. That is where their responsibility to collectors ends.

It is not responsible in any way for monetary losses the cardholders incur. That is done by the marketplace and is not in any way their responsibility.

[Cardsandcoffee]

I am just catching up to whatever sh#% storm Beckett has created with this updated grading scale with BGS so forgive me if this has been already said.

The animosity and resentment they just created within the hobby may never be rehabilitated. The value lost within even their most ardent defenders will be substantial. And this does not even account for the trust lost in terms of perception. Why would anyone send/ buy a high value card to Beckett, knowing a devaluation precedent has been set? Who’s to say, they a Gem + (3 x 9.5, 10), will no longer make the cut as a Gem 10, say 10 years from now? This move absolutely destroys any trust in the company and trust is invaluable.

Regardless on what we all think on varying combinations of sub grades and their worthiness of being Gem Mint, Beckett themselves said at the end of the day, this card is GEM MINT. That’s what said on their label. Now they will play revisionists and decide to change their scale and costing their customers a good deal of monetary harm. I cannot believe their lawyers ok’d this because this sounds like lawsuits waiting to happen. Beckett’s new CEO is quickly showing he’s shortsighted in vision and awful in implementation.

[towerymt]

Originally Posted by The_Reverend

The difference is CSG, when they made their change, converted all quad 9.5 to csg 10.

CSG converted any 9.5 gem mint to 10 gem mint, so min-gem too.

[KPOD]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

What?! BGS assigns grades to cards. That is where their responsibility to collectors ends.

It is not responsible in any way for monetary losses the cardholders incur. That is done by the marketplace and is not in any way their responsibility.

Exactly! There are zero lawsuit scenarios with this change that would have any chance of holding in court.

[towerymt]

Originally Posted by KPOD

Let’s be honest, a card with any 9 subgrade should have never been considered or labeled “gem” in the first place

Two sides to this.

Calling a sub grade a '9' aka 'mint', does seem like it should disqualify the card as gem mint if some aspect of the card is identified as not gem mint.

However, PSA absolutely has 'min gem' PSA-10s, they just don't tell you when. Or why.

PSA-10s can have a defect (some have more than one!):

• soft corner
• chipped edge
• off center enough to LOOK off centered
• surface defects / damage

[Bcr]

Originally Posted by Crab

Blowout Echo Chamber ≠ Reality. The fake outrage is laughable at this point

If people are willing to submit to SGC and CSG who have the exact same grading scale, they'll still submit to BGS. Especially when BGS continues to outsell either of those companies by big margins.

Fake outrage lmao.

[Cardsandcoffee]

I’m pretty sure the outage is real which is why Beckett has already been playing damage control with a follow up tweet stating details to come. Not helpful.

Also the relabeling of former graded Gem Mint cards to Mint Plus absolutely is a potential lawsuit. They took money, said in the end, this card is this grade and now they are revising it to a lower grade. If customers can show this resulted in monetary harm, this absolutely will be a legitimate argument. Beckett is not responsible for third party marketplace but they are responsible for their initial, paid evaluations

[towerymt]

BGS is stuck.

Too many 9.5 gem mint slabs out there to change the grading scale.

Requiring "true gem plus" subgrades to now get an overall "gem mint" grade negatively impacts a huge population of 9.5 slabs. Self-inflicted wound. Possibly worse.

Think I'll start a poll if there isn't one already: What action will you take if this change goes through?

[HalfNipponese]

PSA, SGC or CGS should begin offering BGS 9.5 true cross over special.