Generational talent - do we use the term too loosely?

[txrngr34]

Originally Posted by spuds1961

1- Ohtani

2 - although started in late 60’s I will say Nolan Ryan he pitched 7 no-hitters in his career in todays game I doubt most pitchers even complete 7 games.

3- Griffey Jr.

Nolan is my all-time favorite. However, if I'm being objective, there are at least a handful of more talented pitchers in the last 50 years, although he was kind of the mold for many of them.

No matter the dominance, it took him 15 years to learn to locate consistently. Sure, the pure power was awesome but it alone, in my opinion, doesn't make up a totality of talent argument.

I do believe he eventually developed his full potential, hence the 5th-7th no-hitters.

[hermanotarjeta]

No mention of Ichiro here - does he deserve any consideration?

[ScooterD]

I don’t like using the term because it’s comprised of wholly subjective criteria. Not saying that someone calling player X a generational talent offends me or anything, but it’s just an amorphous opinion without concrete parameters. It begets conversation or arguments, but hardly anyone will agree on it, and no one can be proved right or wrong. Too many goalposts in motion

[ALBASKETBALL]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

No mention of Ichiro here - does he deserve any consideration?

Yes - Ichiro gets knocked/forgotten for playing on the Mariners and only making the playoffs twice....and one of those appearances was when he was tried to the Yankees mid-season.

[eastbayak]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

No mention of Ichiro here - does he deserve any consideration?

You can make an argument for him but there's 3 better "generational talents" based on your definition.

Originally Posted by ALBASKETBALL

Yes - Ichiro gets knocked/forgotten for playing on the Mariners and only making the playoffs twice....and one of those appearances was when he was tried to the Yankees mid-season.

I wouldn't link generational talent to postseason success. Baseball is a team sport, you could be the greatest all-time baseball talent on a mediocre team (e.g., Ohtani).

Bonds/Griffey never won the WS but you can't deny their talent.

[Frankp2311]

I thought BO declared 5 generational talents back in 2018 alone?

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

I don’t like using the term because it’s comprised of wholly subjective criteria. Not saying that someone calling player X a generational talent offends me or anything, but it’s just an amorphous opinion without concrete parameters. It begets conversation or arguments, but hardly anyone will agree on it, and no one can be proved right or wrong. Too many goalposts in motion

I agree with this and use the term almost in jest to explore what we are really saying calling someone a generational talent.

I’ve seen so many BO members call the last five years of rookies “generational” and are we really that quick to dismiss the talent that has been in the league for the last half century in favor of the players who have had rookie cards in sets within the last five years?

Are they truly superior to all the players in the previous 45 years?

[BigL7370]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

No mention of Ichiro here - does he deserve any consideration?

It might be the case if a MLB team found him in high school and he started professionally in the states - by the time he'd established himself, would he just be another Tony Gwynn or Wade Boggs; a great pure hitter [for average] but not a guy that is going to hit for a ton of home runs.

[mr10pin]

I’d go with two pretty widely accepted guys and one outlier…

Ohtani
Griffey, Jr.
Maddux

Maddux had a period of years where he was an absolute wizard with a baseball, and it wasn’t just overpowering with a 105mph fastball. The talent required to locate and make the ball move the way he did was absolutely amazing.

If we were just talking talent/athletic ability, I’d say Dave Winfield could be considered, too…that guy was an absolute freak of nature. Obviously, you can also talk Bonds, Ichiro, Gwynn, Pujols, Trout.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by mr10pin

I’d go with two pretty widely accepted guys and one outlier…

Ohtani
Griffey, Jr.
Maddux

Maddux had a period of years where he was an absolute wizard with a baseball, and it wasn’t just overpowering with a 105mph fastball. The talent required to locate and make the ball move the way he did was absolutely amazing.

If we were just talking talent/athletic ability, I’d say Dave Winfield could be considered, too…that guy was an absolute freak of nature. Obviously, you can also talk Bonds, Ichiro, Gwynn, Pujols, Trout.

I love mad dog and I had to reconsider splitting the question up between position players and pitchers.

Also, it’s great that you gave big Dave some props - he’s the only 70’s guy who came to my mind at first.

[TBTC Baseball]

Rickey Henderson
Griffey, J.R.
Trout, with Ohtani on Deck

Bonds would have been on here, except for...the other stuff.

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

I think people give too much weight to the term “generational talent”. They’re too precious with it. I say we should use it more! Also, “generations” aren’t as long as some people seem to think, so there should be plenty. You’re not saying “greatest ever”, just that a certain player is one of the better ones of his generation.

[theshowandme]

Bowman collectors will tell you there are at least 3 in every product release


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[spuds1961]

Originally Posted by txrngr34

Nolan is my all-time favorite. However, if I'm being objective, there are at least a handful of more talented pitchers in the last 50 years, although he was kind of the mold for many of them.

No matter the dominance, it took him 15 years to learn to locate consistently. Sure, the pure power was awesome but it alone, in my opinion, doesn't make up a totality of talent argument.

I do believe he eventually developed his full potential, hence the 5th-7th no-hitters.

Oh I agree it took him awhile to harness his power but the longevity of being able to throw that hard for so long is why I chose him. If he were on better teams his numbers would’ve been crazy.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

I think people give too much weight to the term “generational talent”. They’re too precious with it. I say we should use it more! Also, “generations” aren’t as long as some people seem to think, so there should be plenty. You’re not saying “greatest ever”, just that a certain player is one of the better ones of his generation.

Would “annual talent” be a better phrase for that?

[theshowandme]

Just break it down to 1 to 2 guys per decade who stood out amongst the youth as the clear best.


1970 - Nolan Ryan
1980 - Ken Griffey Jr. / Barry Bonds
1990 - Alex Rodriguez
2000 - Albert Pujols / Ichiro
2010 - Mike Trout / Ohtani
2020 - TBD, but appears to be JRod


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[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

Bowman collectors will tell you there are at least 3 in every product release


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As will rookie logo and Beckett rookie card clectors!

“ Generational talent” is one of those FOMO terms the media likes to use for click bait.

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Would “annual talent” be a better phrase for that?

Haha… maybe. I just think there’s nothing too wrong saying someone is a generational talent. In this current generation, I think Acuña is a generational talent. Is he Ken Griffey Jr? Heck no, but he’s the cream of the crop of the current kids. To say someone has to be an all-time great to be a generational talent doesn’t make sense to me. All-time and generation are two different time spans for me.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

Haha… maybe. I just think there’s nothing too wrong saying someone is a generational talent. In this current generation, I think Acuña is a generational talent. Is he Ken Griffey Jr? Heck no, but he’s the cream of the crop of the current kids. To say someone has to be an all-time great to be a generational talent doesn’t make sense to me. All-time and generation are two different time spans for me.

At least I like the term “generational talent” better than “once in a lifetime” talent, because you really can’t practically have a once in a lifetime talent every single year, LOL.

[tconte]

I’m also going with:

Rickey Henderson
Ken Griffey Jr.
Trout/Ohtani


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[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by tconte

I’m also going with:

Rickey Henderson
Ken Griffey Jr.
Trout/Ohtani


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Yeah, notch another one for Rickey - he is a rare talent and was the first guy on my list.

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by tconte

I’m also going with:

Rickey Henderson
Ken Griffey Jr.
Trout/Ohtani


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But haven’t there been more than three generations since the 1890’s? Every generation has its top talents.

[Vdm2018]

Ohtani is a lifetime talent

[txrngr34]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

At least I like the term “generational talent” better than “once in a lifetime” talent, because you really can’t practically have a once in a lifetime talent every single year, LOL.

I feel like once-in-a-lifetime would be the top-2 to ever play...ha.

[TBTC Baseball]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

But haven’t there been more than three generations since the 1890’s? Every generation has its top talents.

OP said last 50 years.