**The Perennial MIKE TROUT Thread**

[atk825]

WAR leader by decade:
1900s - Honus Wagner
1910s - Ty Cobb
1920s - Babe Ruth
1930s - Jimmie Foxx
1940s - Ted Williams
1950s - Mickey Mantle
1960s - Willie Mays
1970s - Joe Morgan
1980s - Rickey Henderson
1990s - Barry Bonds
2000s - Alex Rodriguez
2010s - Mike Trout

Would say that’s a pretty good compass to get to an inner circle. Trout led by nearly 20 wins and didn’t play regularly until 2012.

[jhssketchcards]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

This thread has jumped the shark


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It’s amazing when confronted with truth that Trout lacks things like GG (which Kiermaier has 3), there’s never a good comeback with proof that Trout is, say an elite fielder. He’s not and never has been. He’s been a really good CF at times but pedestrian at others. With that athleticism you’d think he’d have at least one GG.
Also, Nolan Arenado has some nice offensive numbers, that if he keeps it up the next 7-8 years, will easily surpass Trout in. I know, many will cling to WAR, OPS, SLG, BB etc but Arenado is trending to be a first ballot HOFer both offensively and defensively. Trout is one dimensional, and his hitting has been exceptional except for he can’t stay on the field. While others pile up longevity numbers, Trout very well could be stuck below 500 HR and 1500 RBI if he can’t come back healthy. The fact that he’s so injury prone at only 31.
His AVG, SLG, OPS, OPS+ and BB have all dropped while Ks have increased. SB have disappeared. Why is that? This was supposed to be the year of the stolen base, and yet he doesn’t run. Triples have
diminished as have doubles (less than 30 since 2016). He’s driven in 100 runs 3x in 13 years and hasn’t scored more than 100 since 2019.
He reminds me of Johan Santana. Dominating for a nice stretch then body breaks down. Hard to see.


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[oplum29]

Originally Posted by shanks25

Nice to see Oscar get some long overdue respect. I just finished the oscar Charleston book and it's fantastic!!!

read A Heroe's Life, it's about Joe DiMaggio. Great book.

[TBTC Baseball]

Originally Posted by atk825

WAR leader by decade:
1900s - Honus Wagner
1910s - Ty Cobb
1920s - Babe Ruth
1930s - Jimmie Foxx
1940s - Ted Williams
1950s - Mickey Mantle
1960s - Willie Mays
1970s - Joe Morgan
1980s - Rickey Henderson
1990s - Barry Bonds
2000s - Alex Rodriguez
2010s - Mike Trout

Would say that’s a pretty good compass to get to an inner circle. Trout led by nearly 20 wins and didn’t play regularly until 2012.

Wow no pitchers, or did you just do position players? What a list of greats.
Any idea who is leading 2020s so far? Shohei has got to be near the top.

[atk825]

Originally Posted by TBTC Baseball

Wow no pitchers, or did you just do position players? What a list of greats.
Any idea who is leading 2020s so far? Shohei has got to be near the top.

Just did position players. Fangraphs scrolling is weird on the phone so just limited to offense. For the 2020s, the leader is Aaron Judge.

Again, offense only. Just looking quickly though it looks like with pitching Ohtani is up on Judge by a couple wins.

[zworykin]

Originally Posted by TBTC Baseball

Wow no pitchers, or did you just do position players? What a list of greats.
Any idea who is leading 2020s so far? Shohei has got to be near the top.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/l..._top_ten.shtml

For bWAR, at least, looks like he's got the clear lead. I assume fWAR is similar. But of course 2020 was weird and 2023 is in progress, so it's pretty early to even be talking about "so far."

[atk825]

Originally Posted by zworykin

https://www.baseball-reference.com/l..._top_ten.shtml

For bWAR, at least, looks like he's got the clear lead. But of course 2020 was weird and 2023 is in progress, so it's pretty early to even be talking about "so far."

Yeah. Including pitching it’s Ohtani on fangraphs as well.

[theshowandme]

Don’t think Cobb, Ruth, Mays, etc. would have anything negative to say about Trout’s fielding.

When a star players baseball card involves a glove, that sucks.


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[atk825]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

Don’t think Cobb, Ruth, Mays, etc. would have anything negative to say about Trout’s fielding.

When a star players baseball card involves a glove, that sucks.


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Robbie Ray has more Cy Young Awards than Cy Young. I mean is Cy Young even inner circle?

[theshowandme]

Cannot recall a time where I was monitoring MLB Gameday to find out when a player was on DEFENSE so I could tune in live.

Have tuned into thousands of at bats that way though.


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[TBTC Baseball]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

Cannot recall a time where I was monitoring MLB Gameday to find out when a player was on DEFENSE so I could tune in live.

Have tuned into thousands of at bats that way though.


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What’s funny is it seemed like so many of Trout’s early highlights were him robbing people of HRs. At least that is what sticks in my head.

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by atk825

WAR leader by decade:
1900s - Honus Wagner
1910s - Ty Cobb
1920s - Babe Ruth
1930s - Jimmie Foxx
1940s - Ted Williams
1950s - Mickey Mantle
1960s - Willie Mays
1970s - Joe Morgan
1980s - Rickey Henderson
1990s - Barry Bonds
2000s - Alex Rodriguez
2010s - Mike Trout

Would say that’s a pretty good compass to get to an inner circle. Trout led by nearly 20 wins and didn’t play regularly until 2012.

WAR is a metric for the regular season. The Post Season is a completely different animal.

Lets break down Post Season wins per WAR for each player. That is why you play to win games, to advance to the playoffs and win it all or at least have the opportunity by being in the World Series.

Post Season performers rise above and have solid WPA’s where almost every opportunity is nearly valuable. Ortiz, Pujols, Cabrera were 1.5 + post season WPA players. That’s a tough feat. Most of the players named above are far removed from even a 1.

[theshowandme]

Originally Posted by TBTC Baseball

What’s funny is it seemed like so many of Trout’s early highlights were him robbing people of HRs. At least that is what sticks in my head.

yeah but the algorithms say he's not elite

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

It’s amazing when confronted with truth that Trout lacks things like GG (which Kiermaier has 3), there’s never a good comeback with proof that Trout is, say an elite fielder. He’s not and never has been. He’s been a really good CF at times but pedestrian at others. With that athleticism you’d think he’d have at least one GG.
Also, Nolan Arenado has some nice offensive numbers, that if he keeps it up the next 7-8 years, will easily surpass Trout in. I know, many will cling to WAR, OPS, SLG, BB etc but Arenado is trending to be a first ballot HOFer both offensively and defensively. Trout is one dimensional, and his hitting has been exceptional except for he can’t stay on the field. While others pile up longevity numbers, Trout very well could be stuck below 500 HR and 1500 RBI if he can’t come back healthy. The fact that he’s so injury prone at only 31.
His AVG, SLG, OPS, OPS+ and BB have all dropped while Ks have increased. SB have disappeared. Why is that? This was supposed to be the year of the stolen base, and yet he doesn’t run. Triples have
diminished as have doubles (less than 30 since 2016). He’s driven in 100 runs 3x in 13 years and hasn’t scored more than 100 since 2019.
He reminds me of Johan Santana. Dominating for a nice stretch then body breaks down. Hard to see.


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What does "easily surpass Trout in" mean? You realize Arenado is a year older than Trout right?

Mike Trout won the Wilson Overall Defensive Player of the Year in 2012.

[Bcr]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

Cannot recall a time where I was monitoring MLB Gameday to find out when a player was on DEFENSE so I could tune in live.

Have tuned into thousands of at bats that way though.


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Well yea.... Obviously you can't predict where a defensive play is going to happen otherwise I would 100% tune in to watch Arenado make highlight reels at third base.

[BigSeph]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

yeah but the algorithms say he's not elite

I remember highlights of amazing plays in CF and lots of stolen bases on Sportscenter.

He had a great defensive season, it's already been pointed out.

One.

Then he got a thick neck, lost his range and stopped stealing bases.

There's another guy who stole a lot of bases early in his career then turned into a high BB, high OPS, HR hitter (below average fielder) with a much larger head and a thick neck. He had a couple of seasons in the field that were way above gold glove level, not just one.

But I won't go there.

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by BigSeph

I remember highlights of amazing plays in CF and lots of stolen bases on Sportscenter.

He had a great defensive season, it's already been pointed out.

One.

Then he got a thick neck, lost his range and stopped stealing bases.

There's another guy who stole a lot of bases early in his career then turned into a high BB, high OPS, HR hitter (below average fielder) with a much larger head and a thick neck. He had a couple of seasons in the field that were way above gold glove level, not just one.

But I won't go there.

In other words, a great hitter.

[TBTC Baseball]

Originally Posted by BigSeph

I remember highlights of amazing plays in CF and lots of stolen bases on Sportscenter.

He had a great defensive season, it's already been pointed out.

One.

Then he got a thick neck, lost his range and stopped stealing bases.

There's another guy who stole a lot of bases early in his career then turned into a high BB, high OPS, HR hitter (below average fielder) with a much larger head and a thick neck. He had a couple of seasons in the field that were way above gold glove level, not just one.

But I won't go there.

Focal length impacts the shape of the face. He definitely bulked up….like everyone does, but the head thing you need to do apples to apples on lens focal length. I doubt those shots are with the same size lens.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

That’s interesting. How many gold gloves has he won? I must’ve e missed those ceremonies. Nolan Arenado has 10 straight GG. Trout has zero.
You’d think the best POSITION player would have at least one GG. Wonder why? Mookie has 6.
Kevin Kiermaier has 3. No, Troitbis not the best position player. He hasn’t been the best at his position once. Great hitter, not an elite fielder.


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This ridiculous argument is a great example how absurd this argument has gotten. Literally no one with any baseball knowledge at all believes you have to be voted by the writers as the best defensive player at your position to be the best overall player in the league. Heck, your own argument proves being a gold glove winner has little bearing on how good you are overall (see Kiermaier). How many seasons was Babe Ruth the best defensive rightfielder in the league? I'll help you. It's zero. And does it mean he wasn't the best player? Of course not. These arguments have gotten out of hand bad. It's almost as bad a s Big Seph harping on "real stats" while not able to comprehend how his real stats show Trout's greatness. If he knew baseball he could see it. But because he didn't lead the league in a particular stat he can't comprehend how he's the best even though he was near the top of the league in so many categories, which is what makes a complete player.

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[BigSeph]

Originally Posted by TBTC Baseball

Focal length impacts the shape of the face. He definitely bulked up….like everyone does, but the head thing you need to do apples to apples on lens focal length. I doubt those shots are with the same size lens.

I'm just having fun.

But nobody brought up focal length for Bonds. Just saying.

[TBTC Baseball]

Originally Posted by BigSeph

I'm just having fun.

But nobody brought up focal length for Bonds. Just saying.

Bonds was more the rumors his hat size increased. Hard to argue that, if true. I can only find one really good shot of before/after of Bonds. Even that though, hard to guess on focal length that may have been used.

[finfangfan]

Maybe the focal length defense is good enough to get Bonds in the Hall?

[TBTC Baseball]

Originally Posted by finfangfan

Maybe the focal length defense is good enough to get Bonds in the Hall?

A defense that nobody has made for Bonds.

[daveyc1]

Originally Posted by eephuspitch

And as fans of baseball (presumably), shouldn't we all be rooting for him?

He's undeniably a class act, unassuming...the accidental superstar. There isn't a more popular or revered player amongst players (and coaches) in baseball. He's not flashy, doesn't show up his teammates and rarely, if ever complains (when he has good reason to being on the Angels).

I hate that he's been beset by fluke injuries and a shorten pandemic season but this idea that at 31, people are shutting the door on his greatness is absurd.

Trout has absolutely nothing to complain about being on the LAA. He chose to be on that team. He will be 32 in 3 weeks. an old 32

[REGGIE206]

I’m sure a lot of us have “bulked” up when we reached 30+ years old (compared to our 19 or 20 year old photos)