[Rovell] NFLPA terminates relationship with Panini effective immediately

[49erRCCollector]

Originally Posted by Grid

For everyone arguing what Fanatics paid to do all of this. Be it overpaying to gain control, or paying 10 fold whatever Panini paid. That isn't how any of this works.

Fanatics did, what Panini couldn't. And that is sharing the company with these leagues/groups. I'd be shocked if Fanatics paid anything beyond more stock options. Or at the very least, returning some of the money these leagues/groups already paid Fanatics.

The NFL gave Fanatics an additional $320MIL to buy more stock last year, from their recent round of investment fund raising.

The NFL Players Association also made more of an investment. As did Major League Baseball and its players union, as well as the National Hockey League. All on top of the money they have already given Fanatics, to share in their gains.

Look at it this way. If Fanatics was worth $25BIL, and gave back or gave away stock/capital worth $1BIL to all of these companies/associations, for them to push the trading card licenses over to them. But then Fanatics is worth $2BIL more due to that. Did they really pay anything?

I hadn't thought of it like that.

Maybe the NFL/NFLPA just wanted cards with Fanatics.

If the above is accurate, then the forthcoming lawsuit from Panini just got more interesting (assuming one is filed).

[TheFrenzy]

Originally Posted by Grid

Fanatics did, what Panini couldn't. And that is sharing the company with these leagues/groups.

Fabiani punching air right now.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by Asian62150

It's really not that hard if the card companies wanted to use a jersey from a specific game and use a picture of the player in that game on the front and take a pic of the actual jersey on the back.

Call it "Get in the Game" and have different levels for players:

-training camp /999
-preseason /499
-regular season /299
-post season /99
-super bowl /10

No reason to do that when idiots are paying tens of thousands of dollars for cards with Walmart hats on them. The patches are just part of the card design. They mean nothing.

[49erRCCollector]

I really need Rubin to give me ONE set to design. Just one.

Edit: Preferably Topps Total.

[Grid]

Originally Posted by 49erRCCollector

I hadn't thought of it like that.

Maybe the NFL/NFLPA just wanted cards with Fanatics.

If the above is accurate, then the forthcoming lawsuit from Panini just got more interesting (assuming one is filed).

Exactly. And with Panini suing Fanatics, they are suing the leagues and PA's that own part of Fanatics.

It becomes a whole thing. Panini should have taken the buyout money they were offered. The deal was in place from Fanatics, and Panini got greedy.

[BayAreaChris]

Originally Posted by Grid

For everyone arguing what Fanatics paid to do all of this. Be it overpaying to gain control, or paying 10 fold whatever Panini paid. That isn't how any of this works.

Fanatics did, what Panini couldn't. And that is sharing the company with these leagues/groups. I'd be shocked if Fanatics paid anything beyond more stock options. Or at the very least, returning some of the money these leagues/groups already paid Fanatics.

The NFL gave Fanatics an additional $320MIL to buy more stock last year, from their recent round of investment fund raising.

The NFL Players Association also made more of an investment. As did Major League Baseball and its players union, as well as the National Hockey League. All on top of the money they have already given Fanatics, to share in their gains.

Look at it this way. If Fanatics was worth $25BIL, and gave back or gave away stock/capital worth $1BIL to all of these companies/associations, for them to push the trading card licenses over to them. But then Fanatics is worth $2BIL more due to that. Did they really pay anything?

Originally Posted by 49erRCCollector

I hadn't thought of it like that.

Maybe the NFL/NFLPA just wanted cards with Fanatics.

If the above is accurate, then the forthcoming lawsuit from Panini just got more interesting (assuming one is filed).

This is exactly one of the points I've been trying to make about the Fanatics / League / League PA deals.

[beavers]

Originally Posted by Grid

Exactly. And with Panini suing Fanatics, they are suing the leagues and PA's that own part of Fanatics.

It becomes a whole thing. Panini should have taken the buyout money they were offered. The deal was in place from Fanatics, and Panini got greedy.

From everything I heard they did try to accept a deal in place. From everything I heard Fanatics financiers rejected the deal when they added last minute language changes that Panini would not accept. By all accounts prior to that language change, a deal was in place and fanatics changed that deal. Then several months later fanatics came back and wanted panini to cut the price further. Who knows exactly how it all went down but this is a decent narrative of the events.



“ WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED TO CAUSE THIS:

Our sources say Fanatics was about to acquire Panini in the Fall of 2022, and an announcement was planned for The Industry Summit, which took place from October 2-5, 2022 in Las Vegas, Nevada.

The deal was done and ready to be signed, but due to some last minute language that Fanatics snuck in to protect themselves in case of an antitrust lawsuit, the deal was nixed by Panini’s owner when he received the paperwork in Italy. Panini even canceled travel for their employees to attend the 2022 Industry Summit, due to the deal falling through at the last minute. This information apparently was kept private at the time, and Panini employees ended up attending The Industry Summit in spite of the deal falling through due to Panini’s owner pulling out as a result of the anti-trust language protecting Fanatics.

As a retaliation of sorts, The Fanatics-owned Topps Company then purchased the manufacturing plant that Panini had relied upon to produce all or at least most of their releases. This put the squeeze on Panini, and continues to hinder their ability to produce cards to meet the market demand. This - not necessarily just “supply chain issues” are some of the real reasons Panini has had to consistently push back release dates over the last several months.

Then, last month in March 2023, just before The Mint Collective in Las Vegas, Fanatics was about to acquire Panini yet again, and our sources did not have the exact numbers, but told us with extreme confidence that the two sides were 2 percentage points apart, and Panini’s owner was not willing to come down 2% to close the deal.

This saga of two missed Panini pull-outs and Fanatics squeezing Panini out of the print calendar has led to Fanatics now poaching all of Panini’s employees away - at least those who are capable of creating sports cards, our sources say.

Gone from Panini are the VP of Product Development, VP of Acquisitions, three acquisition directors, four product development directors and more.

Our sources say Fanatics is also giving them all significant bonuses, on the condition that they resign and leave effective immediately and not give a standard 2-week notice.

“Now Panini is in shambles,” our sources say. “In fact, yet again today, Fanatics poached three more product development people from Panini.”

[CarmenOhio]

Originally Posted by itsinusall

What about Fanatics allegation that Panini misrepresented the profits so the CEO could get a huge payout. Could this be the exemption from a cure period??

Possibly. We would have to see the contract to know what has been deemed incurable per se. Wish I could give a better answer, but it would be irresponsible for me to speculate any more than I already have without seeing the contract.

[BayAreaChris]

Originally Posted by beavers

From everything I heard they did try to accept a deal in place. From everything I heard Fanatics financiers rejected the deal when they added last minute language changes that Panini would not accept. By all accounts prior to that language change, a deal was in place and fanatics changed that deal. Then several months later fanatics came back and wanted panini to cut the price further. Who knows exactly how it all went down but this is a decent narrative of the events.



“ WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED TO CAUSE THIS:

Our sources say Fanatics was about to acquire Panini in the Fall of 2022, and an announcement was planned for The Industry Summit, which took place from October 2-5, 2022 in Las Vegas, Nevada.

The deal was done and ready to be signed, but due to some last minute language that Fanatics snuck in to protect themselves in case of an antitrust lawsuit, the deal was nixed by Panini’s owner when he received the paperwork in Italy. Panini even canceled travel for their employees to attend the 2022 Industry Summit, due to the deal falling through at the last minute. This information apparently was kept private at the time, and Panini employees ended up attending The Industry Summit in spite of the deal falling through due to Panini’s owner pulling out as a result of the anti-trust language protecting Fanatics.

As a retaliation of sorts, The Fanatics-owned Topps Company then purchased the manufacturing plant that Panini had relied upon to produce all or at least most of their releases. This put the squeeze on Panini, and continues to hinder their ability to produce cards to meet the market demand. This - not necessarily just “supply chain issues” are some of the real reasons Panini has had to consistently push back release dates over the last several months.

Then, last month in March 2023, just before The Mint Collective in Las Vegas, Fanatics was about to acquire Panini yet again, and our sources did not have the exact numbers, but told us with extreme confidence that the two sides were 2 percentage points apart, and Panini’s owner was not willing to come down 2% to close the deal.

This saga of two missed Panini pull-outs and Fanatics squeezing Panini out of the print calendar has led to Fanatics now poaching all of Panini’s employees away - at least those who are capable of creating sports cards, our sources say.

Gone from Panini are the VP of Product Development, VP of Acquisitions, three acquisition directors, four product development directors and more.

Our sources say Fanatics is also giving them all significant bonuses, on the condition that they resign and leave effective immediately and not give a standard 2-week notice.

“Now Panini is in shambles,” our sources say. “In fact, yet again today, Fanatics poached three more product development people from Panini.”

Cred:https://nooffseason.com/our-sources-...the-collector/

[Grid]

Originally Posted by beavers

From everything I heard they did try to accept a deal in place. From everything I heard Fanatics financiers rejected the deal when they added last minute language changes that Panini would not accept. By all accounts prior to that language change, a deal was in place and fanatics changed that deal. Then several months later fanatics came back and wanted panini to cut the price further. Who knows exactly how it all went down but this is a decent narrative of the events.



“ WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED TO CAUSE THIS:

Our sources say Fanatics was about to acquire Panini in the Fall of 2022, and an announcement was planned for The Industry Summit, which took place from October 2-5, 2022 in Las Vegas, Nevada.

The deal was done and ready to be signed, but due to some last minute language that Fanatics snuck in to protect themselves in case of an antitrust lawsuit, the deal was nixed by Panini’s owner when he received the paperwork in Italy. Panini even canceled travel for their employees to attend the 2022 Industry Summit, due to the deal falling through at the last minute. This information apparently was kept private at the time, and Panini employees ended up attending The Industry Summit in spite of the deal falling through due to Panini’s owner pulling out as a result of the anti-trust language protecting Fanatics.

As a retaliation of sorts, The Fanatics-owned Topps Company then purchased the manufacturing plant that Panini had relied upon to produce all or at least most of their releases. This put the squeeze on Panini, and continues to hinder their ability to produce cards to meet the market demand. This - not necessarily just “supply chain issues” are some of the real reasons Panini has had to consistently push back release dates over the last several months.

Then, last month in March 2023, just before The Mint Collective in Las Vegas, Fanatics was about to acquire Panini yet again, and our sources did not have the exact numbers, but told us with extreme confidence that the two sides were 2 percentage points apart, and Panini’s owner was not willing to come down 2% to close the deal.

This saga of two missed Panini pull-outs and Fanatics squeezing Panini out of the print calendar has led to Fanatics now poaching all of Panini’s employees away - at least those who are capable of creating sports cards, our sources say.

Gone from Panini are the VP of Product Development, VP of Acquisitions, three acquisition directors, four product development directors and more.

Our sources say Fanatics is also giving them all significant bonuses, on the condition that they resign and leave effective immediately and not give a standard 2-week notice.

“Now Panini is in shambles,” our sources say. “In fact, yet again today, Fanatics poached three more product development people from Panini.”

The last minute wording, that caused the deal to not happen. Is listed in the actual lawsuit filing. Fanatics knew the scam Panini was running, and wanted to base the payoff on their own "real world numbers".

https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gf...23-cv-6895.pdf

In a nutshell, section 9. Panini got caught falsifying earnings projections, which would have made Fanatics pay more to them as an early termination fee. IE, if you want the license now, you must pay us the profit we would lose, if we stopped making cards sooner.

This is how its worded in the counter suit

In fact, Fanatics eventually learned through private discussions with the CEO of Panini America that Panini itself was relying on a different, materially lower set of accurate, updated figures for its own internal use while still feeding Fanatics the pumped-up projections

And since Panini wanted to use their own fake projections, and not those of Fanatics, the deal was off the table.

[wickedliquids]

This is all going to make a GREAT Netflix doc in the next couple of years!

[mossoholic]

Originally Posted by Grid

The last minute wording, that caused the deal to not happen. Is listed in the actual lawsuit filing. Fanatics knew the scam Panini was running, and wanted to base the payoff on their own "real world numbers".

https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gf...23-cv-6895.pdf

In a nutshell, section 9. Panini got caught falsifying earnings projections, which would have made Fanatics pay more to them as an early termination fee. IE, if you want the license now, you must pay us the profit we would lose, if we stopped making cards sooner.

This is how its worded in the counter suit

In fact, Fanatics eventually learned through private discussions with the CEO of Panini America that Panini itself was relying on a different, materially lower set of accurate, updated figures for its own internal use while still feeding Fanatics the pumped-up projections

And since Panini wanted to use their own fake projections, and not those of Fanatics, the deal was off the table.

Fanatics offer now would be under 50% of what it was a few months ago. If NBAPA pulls the license the offer will be close to a penny on the dollar. Not pennies. A single penny. At that point Panini is going to get into the same situation that Brent Huigens got into. He got offered a ton of money to sell PWCC and turned it down. Essentially sold the company later for what he owed because of debt/bad loans/financing, etc. If Panini has both licenses terminated now they are going to be on the hook for all redemptions, points, and unfulfilled blockchain cards with really nothing they can adequately replace them with. They would be selling everything basketball and football to Fanatics basically for nothing just to get out of what they owe. Only reason Fanatics would still buy is to avoid more lawsuits, wasted time, and being able to print ASAP.

[rmw10]

Originally Posted by mossoholic

Fanatics offer now would be under 50% of what it was a few months ago. If NBAPA pulls the license the offer will be close to a penny on the dollar. Not pennies. A single penny. At that point Panini is going to get into the same situation that Brent Huigens got into. He got offered a ton of money to sell PWCC and turned it down. Essentially sold the company later for what he owed because of debt/bad loans/financing, etc. If Panini has both licenses terminated now they are going to be on the hook for all redemptions, points, and unfulfilled blockchain cards with really nothing they can adequately replace them with. They would be selling everything basketball and football to Fanatics basically for nothing just to get out of what they owe. Only reason Fanatics would still buy is to avoid more lawsuits, wasted time, and being able to print ASAP.

And Fanatics basically has no use in buying Panini as a whole at this point. They have the big license with the NFLPA, and the NFL isn't going to be sticking around much longer if they can't make money off of it. So instead of just selling the company when they could have, they're now only likely to make whatever they can get to keep the battle out of court, and probably a bonus to buyout/sell off the NFL license. They missed big time pending whatever legal consequences to the NFLPA deal there might be, but I'd expect that to blow over with the massive legal team Fanatics has in place.

[Grid]

Originally Posted by mossoholic

Fanatics offer now would be under 50% of what it was a few months ago. If NBAPA pulls the license the offer will be close to a penny on the dollar. Not pennies. A single penny. At that point Panini is going to get into the same situation that Brent Huigens got into. He got offered a ton of money to sell PWCC and turned it down. Essentially sold the company later for what he owed because of debt/bad loans/financing, etc. If Panini has both licenses terminated now they are going to be on the hook for all redemptions, points, and unfulfilled blockchain cards with really nothing they can adequately replace them with. They would be selling everything basketball and football to Fanatics basically for nothing just to get out of what they owe. Only reason Fanatics would still buy is to avoid more lawsuits, wasted time, and being able to print ASAP.

They wouldn't acquire Panini's debts. Which is why Panini started sending out sparkle packs for owed redemption in mass last year. They needed to clear out the IOU's the best they could.

But for sure on the rest.

Originally Posted by rmw10

And Fanatics basically has no use in buying Panini as a whole at this point. They have the big license with the NFLPA, and the NFL isn't going to be sticking around much longer if they can't make money off of it. So instead of just selling the company when they could have, they're now only likely to make whatever they can get to keep the battle out of court, and probably a bonus to buyout/sell off the NFL license. They missed big time pending whatever legal consequences to the NFLPA deal there might be, but I'd expect that to blow over with the massive legal team Fanatics has in place.

As Mossy said already, they would end the Panini Lawsuits if they were to buy them outright. But from a business standpoint, they would gain both the Panini Legacy rights, as well as the DLP legacy rights Panini gained when they bought out DLP to enter the sports card world.

IE, the brands from both of those companies as well as all IPs they own, which would allow for Fanatics to do retro sets in the future, featuring designs and reprints of past issues.

Stuff like this, where they featured the Contenders RC image of a card they didnt produce, but gained the rights over.



Just like Fanatics now has with Topps, who likes to beat their prior releases and designs to death each year. So there is value there for them.

[Americards]

Originally Posted by BayAreaChris

They also bought Topps for $500 million when previously Topps was valued at $1.3 billion when they had the MLB baseball license.

The whole Topps company was worth $1.3 Billion, which included what Fanatics bought, plus The candy operation (which is being sold for $700 million) and the TDS gift card company

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

How Dare Panini Pull Somthing Like This!!!!!


Ohhh wait... What's that logo on the table there???

[cholodolo]

Originally Posted by BayAreaChris

Cred:https://nooffseason.com/our-sources-...the-collector/

Thanks for the link.

Fanatics executives said they were very interested in talking with Upper Deck about acquiring the company that owns the NHL license. Our sources say Upper Deck is not as interested in an acquisition but ... Fanatics just signed exclusive rights for NHL game worn jerseys and memorabilia, scheduled to start in approximately two years, meaning they have extreme interest in the NHL market, specifically collectibles.

Tough to see how they could pull that off and not be considered a monopoly.

Upper Deck's President mentioned they were not for sale by nature of the McWilliam family trust arrangement, but I doubt Fanatics cares given the above behavior.

Panini has to have something on them -- they either know they'll get it in discovery, or in a deposition. The break-in targeting computer systems at Panini has not been made public, either.

[mossoholic]

Originally Posted by Grid

They wouldn't acquire Panini's debts. Which is why Panini started sending out sparkle packs for owed redemption in mass last year. They needed to clear out the IOU's the best they could.

But for sure on the rest.



As Mossy said already, they would end the Panini Lawsuits if they were to buy them outright. But from a business standpoint, they would gain both the Panini Legacy rights, as well as the DLP legacy rights Panini gained when they bought out DLP to enter the sports card world.

IE, the brands from both of those companies as well as all IPs they own, which would allow for Fanatics to do retro sets in the future, featuring designs and reprints of past issues.

Stuff like this, where they featured the Contenders RC image of a card they didnt produce, but gained the rights over.



Just like Fanatics now has with Topps, who likes to beat their prior releases and designs to death each year. So there is value there for them.

By acquiring Panini's debts Im talking about the unfulfilled redemptions, points not used, and blockchain cards not fulfilled. Realistically Fanatics would have to take them because there is no way Panini can satisfy all those outstanding debts. Those packs you speak of, which they seemingly only did because of the at the time pending Fanatics deal, were a drop in the bucket of what Panini owes customers in those 3 areas. Now had Panini been sending out all kinds of different packs over the last year like they should have been doing a bunch of that would be done with. I know in 1 case for me I offered to take packs for a card I've had in for now over a year and they refused to let me trade it for anything period.

If a sale is going to still happen I'd be stunned if it's not this year. In that small amount of time Panini can't fulfill what they owe. It looks like Panini should just swallow their pride and take what they can now. Because if NBAPA does the same thing they will end up having to sell basketball and football related lines for pretty much nothing just to get out of what they still owe customers.

[rmw10]

Originally Posted by Grid

They wouldn't acquire Panini's debts. Which is why Panini started sending out sparkle packs for owed redemption in mass last year. They needed to clear out the IOU's the best they could.

But for sure on the rest.



As Mossy said already, they would end the Panini Lawsuits if they were to buy them outright. But from a business standpoint, they would gain both the Panini Legacy rights, as well as the DLP legacy rights Panini gained when they bought out DLP to enter the sports card world.

IE, the brands from both of those companies as well as all IPs they own, which would allow for Fanatics to do retro sets in the future, featuring designs and reprints of past issues.

Stuff like this, where they featured the Contenders RC image of a card they didnt produce, but gained the rights over.



Just like Fanatics now has with Topps, who likes to beat their prior releases and designs to death each year. So there is value there for them.

But do they care is the big question. Lawsuit settlements + the NFL license is probably significantly less expensive. So how much do they value the IPs when they already have all of Topps on board?

[auburn35]

Arbitration.

https://www.actionnetwork.com/nfl/pa...se-to-fanatics


- Boies said his clients were blindsided by the NFLPA's transition to Fanatics, indicating that Panini and the NFLPA had spoken as recently as a few weeks ago. Sources said NFLPA representation was in Panini's offices just three weeks ago.

Panini still lists the NFLPA as a partner on its website.

The only way the NFLPA could immediately terminate the deal with no selloff period is if there was a material breach in the contract.

"The suggested breach is over 'a change in control,'" Boies said, referencing that the contract has a provision that states that if there is a management change, the NFLPA can terminate its deal.

"The decision was made in the best interest of all players and we are not discussing anything beyond that at this time," NFLPA spokesman George Atallah told the Action Network on Wednesday. A Fanatics spokesman declined comment.

[Metsfan1991]

I have 1.2 million points I’m sitting on. Blowout cards is still buying so I’m not too worried although they obviously have more pull for outstanding liabilities than me.

[Grid]

Originally Posted by cholodolo

Thanks for the link.



Tough to see how they could pull that off and not be considered a monopoly.

Upper Deck's President mentioned they were not for sale by nature of the McWilliam family trust arrangement, but I doubt Fanatics cares given the above behavior.

Panini has to have something on them -- they either know they'll get it in discovery, or in a deposition. The break-in targeting computer systems at Panini has not been made public, either.

Monopolies unto themselves, are not illegal. Look at all the brands and subsidiaries Amazon, Meta, Google & Disney are in. For anything to be unlawful under the Sherman act. That company would have to criminally hinder its competition.

If it can be proven that Fanatics, who legally purchased "like" businesses, and those sales were approved by the Federal trade commission. Somehow illegal stomped out the likes of Wild Card, Leaf, or any others is that space. It could be an issue.

But, merely having a better product, superior management and proper pricing compared to others, as reasons why that company grew and maintain their status as the best. Is not a crime.

Its only a crime if they did so unlawfully. Or it can become a crime, if they suddenly used their status to price gouge consumers.

[byronscott4ever]

Originally Posted by Metsfan1991

I have 1.2 million points I’m sitting on. Blowout cards is still buying so I’m not too worried although they obviously have more pull for outstanding liabilities than me.

BO is credit only at this point

[Metsfan1991]

Originally Posted by byronscott4ever

BO is credit only at this point

The fact they haven’t pulled the buying completely is good enough for me to be content . Although they probably have some deal behind the scenes

[mossoholic]

Originally Posted by Metsfan1991

The fact they haven’t pulled the buying completely is good enough for me to be content . Although they probably have some deal behind the scenes

BO hasn't had a buy list in over a year. I could be wrong but pretty sure BO is paying the lowest they have ever paid for points right now. They were paying more when new wax was less than 35% what they are charging for it on many products now. They are paying 3 cents a point and its only store credit. That is essentially worth well under 3 cents a point.