Joe Montana’s best QB of all time - Page 2

TheFrenzy · 09-01-2023, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjforce

The one that always gets me is when people try to compare Mahomes last 5 years with Brady's first 5 years (as a starter) and try to say that Brady was better. Mahomes was absolutely better over those stretches.

Now, compare with Brady's run from 2014-2018 when he won 3 Super Bowls, 2 Super Bowl MVPs, 1 MVP, 2 MVP runner ups, you have a much better argument.

Brady from 2014-18 was better than Brady 2001-2005, and that shouldn't be at all controversial.

A few more elite seasons and Mahomes might even pass Ryan Tannehill on the all-time passing list!

tjforce · 09-01-2023, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

A few more elite seasons and Mahomes might even pass Ryan Tannehill on the all-time passing list!

And using that sophisticated logic,

at the same age in Brady's career, he would have been creeping up on Bubby Brister on the all time passing list!

I wonder if he ended up passing him.

TheFrenzy · 09-01-2023, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjforce

And using that sophisticated logic,

at the same age in Brady's career, he would have been creeping up on Bubby Brister on the all time passing list!

I wonder if he ended up passing him.

Yep.

That’s kind of why we usually wait until players have earned it before handing them the crown.

How many “the next Michael Jordan” have there been?

razorsharp · 09-01-2023, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

What years did Aikman and Eli win their NFL MVP Awards? Being a game manager on a stacked team doesn't equate to being a great QB.

Eli Manning never in his entire career played on a stack team.

Name me the best offensive weapon he ever had during his Giants tenure?

tjforce · 09-01-2023, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

Yep.

That’s kind of why we usually wait until players have earned it before handing them the crown.

How many “the next Michael Jordan” have there been?

I think u just gave me a new hobby:

Tracking every QB Mahomes passes throughout the season in "Greatness judged by only career passing yards".

Last season was a good year: He passed Hall of Famers Sammy Baugh, Roger Staubach, Otto Graham, and Norm Van Brocklin. So he's already better then all of them!

Next Up! Charlie Johnson, then the great Bart Starr (who is 1 slot in the rankings below Tommy Kramer... but let's not get ahead of ourselves with the Tommy Kramer talk).

TheFrenzy · 09-01-2023, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjforce

I think u just gave me a new hobby:

Tracking every QB Mahomes passes throughout the season in "Greatness judged by only career passing yards".

Last season was a good year: He passed Hall of Famers Sammy Baugh, Roger Staubach, Otto Graham, and Norm Van Brocklin. So he's already better then all of them!

Next Up! Charlie Johnson, then the great Bart Starr (who is 1 slot in the rankings below Tommy Kramer... but let's not get ahead of ourselves with the Tommy Kramer talk).

Be sure to adjust passing yards for each era to achieve maximum accuracy.

The fact that guys threw for more yards in the 1960s should help put Mahomes current numbers in perspective.

JeremyNick · 09-01-2023, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

Be sure to adjust passing yards for each era to achieve maximum accuracy.

The fact that guys threw for more yards in the 1960s should help put Mahomes current numbers in perspective.

What do you know about historical context?

TheFrenzy · 09-01-2023, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

What do you know about historical context?

Absolutely nothing.

jplarson · 09-01-2023, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

What years did Aikman and Eli win their NFL MVP Awards? Being a game manager on a stacked team doesn't equate to being a great QB.

We're talking greatness, not best. The great ones win, the best ones pad stats. Aikman never needed stats and Manning slayed the current GOAT twice.

sIPsIPsIP

TheFrenzy · 09-01-2023, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplarson

We're talking greatness, not best. The great ones win, the best ones pad stats. Aikman never needed stats and Manning slayed the current GOAT twice.

sIPsIPsIP

Last time I checked, Aikman went 3-0 in Super Bowls and Mahomes is one properly maintained field away from being 1-2 in Super Bowls.

HowdyHowdyHowdy

Hellcat · 09-01-2023, 03:02 PM

Old Joe is just butt hurt that it's Brady so he trys to throw other names in ring. Joe needs to take a break from talking to the media.

RedSoxFan28 · 09-01-2023, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

Last time I checked, Aikman went 3-0 in Super Bowls and Mahomes is one properly maintained field away from being 1-2 in Super Bowls.

HowdyHowdyHowdy

And one Jimmy G overthrow from being 0-3

jplarson · 09-01-2023, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellcat

Old Joe is just butt hurt that it's Brady so he trys to throw other names in ring. Joe needs to take a break from talking to the media.

Relax, Joe Montana can't possibly hurt your PSA 5 any more than it already is.

tjforce · 09-01-2023, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

Be sure to adjust passing yards for each era to achieve maximum accuracy.

The fact that guys threw for more yards in the 1960s should help put Mahomes current numbers in perspective.

Ohhhh... so now we're adding context.

That get's too tricky. Because then maybe we should add MVPs, Super Bowls, Super Bowl MVPs, Touchdowns, QB Rating, Rushing yards, All Pros, Etc.

I'll keep it simple and just focus on yards like you did before you moved the goal posts back.

Pre-Week 1 2023: Mahomes is the 84th best QB in NFL history, in front of Dante Culpepper and behind Charley Johnson.

Also of note: I'm using this logic to declare Joe Montana NOT #1 greatest of the NFL pre-2000, as its obvious that Dan Fouts was better because he threw for more yards in an earlier/overlapping area than Montana.

Sorry Joe Cool and 9ers fans alike, time to bow to the dense beard of GOAT-ness

TheFrenzy · 09-01-2023, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjforce

I'll keep it simple and just focus on yards like you did before you moved the goal posts back.

No goalposts moved. Only a suggestion if you want to take your new hobby seriously.

tjforce · 09-01-2023, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

No goalposts moved. Only a suggestion if you want to take your new hobby seriously.

Nope.

I'm keeping it 100% Frenzy Fresh.

Maybe I'll track some other guys as well, like Joe Burrow trying to pass Rick Mirer in greatness, and Trevor Lawrence trying to get back Cleveland Browns legends Tim Couch and Mike Pagel!

TheFrenzy · 09-01-2023, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjforce

Nope.

I'm keeping it 100% Frenzy Fresh.

Maybe I'll track some other guys as well, like Joe Burrow trying to pass Rick Mirer in greatness

I mean, Burrow has what, 42 starts?

Of course he's nowhere near greatness at this point in his career.

kcroyalsfan8515 · 09-02-2023, 12:15 AM

I always wonder how many titles some of these QBs would have won if they were paired with not only a great coach.... But one who recorded the other teams practices... I bet it would have probably helped.

jplarson · 09-02-2023, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcroyalsfan8515

I always wonder how many titles some of these QBs would have won if they were paired with not only a great coach.... But one who recorded the other teams practices... I bet it would have probably helped.

I always wonder how many titles some of these QBs would have won if they were paired with not only a great coach... but one whose coaching nepotism didn't cause so many problems... I bet that would have probably helped too.

Poor Dan Marino suffered under Dave and Mike Shula.

oldgoldy97 · 09-02-2023, 08:30 AM

I love rating the subjective.

tjforce · 09-02-2023, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

I mean, Burrow has what, 42 starts?

Of course he's nowhere near greatness at this point in his career.

Damn right. He's no Rick Mirer yet.

And I've crunched the numbers: It's going to take Joe Burrow until Week 14 of the 2034 season to catch Vinnie Testaverde!

That puts him at age 38 with a chance to keep going up the rankings. I think at that point it's okay to fully assess his greatness!

TheFrenzy · 09-02-2023, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjforce

Damn right. He's no Rick Mirer yet.

And I've crunched the numbers: It's going to take Joe Burrow until Week 14 of the 2034 season to catch Vinnie Testaverde!

That puts him at age 38 with a chance to keep going up the rankings. I think at that point it's okay to fully assess his greatness!

You think you're making a joke, but what you're actually making is sense.

tjforce · 09-02-2023, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

You think you're making a joke, but what you're actually making is sense.

I just think I'm having fun.

And anybody who would put Phillip Rivers as a top 6 all time QB would agree.

TheFrenzy · 09-02-2023, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjforce

I just think I'm having fun.

And anybody who would put Phillip Rivers as a top 6 all time QB would agree.

It all becomes crystal clear when you rank Andrew Luck. He's a Top-10 all-time QB, right?

tjforce · 09-02-2023, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

It all becomes crystal clear when you rank Andrew Luck. He's a Top-10 all-time QB, right?

Nope. He's officially 90th.

Mahomes finally inched past him late last season. Josh Allen is about a year and a half away. A good 3-4 healthy years and Burrow can get there too.

09-01-2023, 03:02 PM	#36
Hellcat Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 2,287	Old Joe is just butt hurt that it's Brady so he trys to throw other names in ring. Joe needs to take a break from talking to the media.

09-02-2023, 12:15 AM	#43
kcroyalsfan8515 Member Join Date: Sep 2018 Posts: 1,487	I always wonder how many titles some of these QBs would have won if they were paired with not only a great coach.... But one who recorded the other teams practices... I bet it would have probably helped.

09-02-2023, 08:30 AM	#45
oldgoldy97 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 48,504	I love rating the subjective.