Joe Montana’s best QB of all time

[BostonNut]

Originally Posted by jplarson

Brady on the '85 Patriots still doesn't beat the '85 Bears.

#HistoricalFacts

That I can agree with!

But guess who the ‘85 Pats beat in one of the All-Time choke jobs.

[coltsnsox07]

Bill Belichick said my guy Bert Jones was one of the best he ever saw...
http:// by

[oplum29]

Originally Posted by BostonNut

Again…Brady entered the league one year after Marino and five years after Montana. Brady had to go up against the Ryans and Wade Phillips most of his career.

Brady didn't have to play a team in his own conference that was defensively loaded like the Giants with two HOF coaches (Parcells and Belichick) or loaded with the likes of Pepper Johnson, Carl Banks, LT, Leonard Marshall, Mark Collins, Everson Walls, or Erik Johnson.

Montana had to go through a defense like that in the playoffs, not in the SB like Brady did.

the best defense Brady played against, was Denver, in 2015, that had Von Miller and DeMarcus Ware.

that's why i argue, that it's difficult to say who is the "GOAT" when the times have changed so much. Brady doesn't do what he does in the 80's. that was a crazy, hard hitting, full coverage era. Brady played in that era for 4-years, and then they changed the rules for Peyton Manning, and every single QB benefited from that.

it's why records that stood for 20+ years were all broken all of a sudden (catches, yards receiving, TD passes, yards passing, QB rating, etc)

it's not a coincidence at all.

[BostonNut]

Originally Posted by oplum29

Brady didn't have to play a team in his own conference that was defensively loaded like the Giants with two HOF coaches (Parcells and Belichick) or loaded with the likes of Pepper Johnson, Carl Banks, LT, Leonard Marshall, Mark Collins, Everson Walls, or Erik Johnson.

Montana had to go through a defense like that in the playoffs, not in the SB like Brady did.

the best defense Brady played against, was Denver, in 2015, that had Von Miller and DeMarcus Ware.

that's why i argue, that it's difficult to say who is the "GOAT" when the times have changed so much. Brady doesn't do what he does in the 80's. that was a crazy, hard hitting, full coverage era. Brady played in that era for 4-years, and then they changed the rules for Peyton Manning, and every single QB benefited from that.

it's why records that stood for 20+ years were all broken all of a sudden (catches, yards receiving, TD passes, yards passing, QB rating, etc)

it's not a coincidence at all.

And won three Super Bowls.

/thread.

[Hellcat]

Montana fanboy just stop! Joes 2nd all-time and that's not so bad! Be thankful your 2 favorite quarterbacks happen to be 1 and 2!

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by BostonNut

And won three Super Bowls.

/thread.

+ to thread.

He also won 2 SB MVPs in the stretch.

It's true he had some very good defenses, but that doesn't negate the fact that he still won more than anybody.

[49erRCCollector]

Mahomes and Brady lost SBs. Bums. Scrubs.

Joe never did. Never threw an Int in one, either. Repped LA Gear kicks, too.

[oplum29]

Originally Posted by BostonNut

And won three Super Bowls.

/thread.

with an amazing defense full of HOFers, a kicker who won two games and a playoff game in the snow, and a power running game that was able to eat up clock. he was also coached by maybe one of the best football minds of all-time in Bill Belichick.

i love Brady...but Brady before the rule change was exactly like Troy Aikman. he was tough, and he was clutch, but he didn't put up crazy stats, never won a league MVP, and never tossed 30 TDs or 4,000 yards.

after the rule change....oh why even bother, you probably didn't even read this anyway.

believe what you want.

never said anything about the Almighty Tom Brady (who again, i like), just trying to put things into perspective, which Montana has said so several times too.

[oplum29]

Originally Posted by tjforce

+ to thread.

He also won 2 SB MVPs in the stretch.

It's true he had some very good defenses, but that doesn't negate the fact that he still won more than anybody.

Aikman also won 3 SBs in 4 seasons, won SB MVP after tossing 4 TD passes in a blowout win over Buffalo (something Brady never did, blowout a team in the SB, but something Montana did).

Aikman played with HOF cast all around him, in an old school football era. imagine what he would have done in today's league, throwing to Irvin, Harper, and Novachek, while handing the ball off to Emmitt Smith.



for the last time, i don't hate Brady, but let's put history into some perspective too. i don't know why Brady fans get so upset about this. i am a Brady fan, and i have zero problem admitting this or even talking about it.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by 49erRCCollector

Mahomes and Brady lost SBs. Bums. Scrubs.

Joe never did. Never threw an Int in one, either. Repped LA Gear kicks, too.

It’s like Terry never existed.

[jhssketchcards]

Only Joe Montana could pay a compliment to a guy he beat in the Super Bowl


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JohnnyHatesJazz]

Originally Posted by oplum29

with an amazing defense full of HOFers, a kicker who won two games and a playoff game in the snow, and a power running game that was able to eat up clock. he was also coached by maybe one of the best football minds of all-time in Bill Belichick.

i love Brady...but Brady before the rule change was exactly like Troy Aikman. he was tough, and he was clutch, but he didn't put up crazy stats, never won a league MVP, and never tossed 30 TDs or 4,000 yards.

after the rule change....oh why even bother, you probably didn't even read this anyway.

believe what you want.

never said anything about the Almighty Tom Brady (who again, i like), just trying to put things into perspective, which Montana has said so several times too.

now that's a load of b.s. brady's early career stats were nothing like aikman's.

[49erRCCollector]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

It’s like Terry never existed.

I like Terry. And I like/respect the Steelers franchise. No hate here.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by 49erRCCollector

I like Terry. And I like/respect the Steelers franchise. No hate here.

I mean he’s not in the same discussion but he’s always the odd man out in SB talk.

He’s also not all there.

[marinocollector]

Originally Posted by oplum29

with an amazing defense full of HOFers, a kicker who won two games and a playoff game in the snow, and a power running game that was able to eat up clock. he was also coached by maybe one of the best football minds of all-time in Bill Belichick.

i love Brady...but Brady before the rule change was exactly like Troy Aikman. he was tough, and he was clutch, but he didn't put up crazy stats, never won a league MVP, and never tossed 30 TDs or 4,000 yards.

after the rule change....oh why even bother, you probably didn't even read this anyway.

believe what you want.

never said anything about the Almighty Tom Brady (who again, i like), just trying to put things into perspective, which Montana has said so several times too.

2005 Brady led the league in passing yards. When he threw for 4110 yards. Throwing to David Givens, Troy Brown, Deion Branch, Ben Watson, Tim Dwight.

I don't know why people don't realize he played to the system and the talent around him. They were control the ball on both sides of the field. Brady played perfect for the system. Gun slinging and making mistakes is more hurtful than throwing an extra 50 yards a game.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by oplum29

Aikman also won 3 SBs in 4 seasons, won SB MVP after tossing 4 TD passes in a blowout win over Buffalo (something Brady never did, blowout a team in the SB, but something Montana did).

Aikman played with HOF cast all around him, in an old school football era. imagine what he would have done in today's league, throwing to Irvin, Harper, and Novachek, while handing the ball off to Emmitt Smith.



for the last time, i don't hate Brady, but let's put history into some perspective too. i don't know why Brady fans get so upset about this. i am a Brady fan, and i have zero problem admitting this or even talking about it.

That's fine.

One of my big factors in judging how great of a career someone had is by finding the holes in their resume. It's really hard to not have holes in a career resume, and the guys that don't end up among the GOATs. A few examples of things I look at:

-Peak performance (Known as 'best player in the game at some point')
-MVPs
-Longevity
-Championships
-Clutch/Memorable performances
-Counting stats
-Advanced Rating stats


Montana had all of those. Brady had all of those too, most to a higher degree than Montana.

Aikman had about 2 or those. He shouldn't be discussed in the same conversation as those two guy, otherwise you are just cherry picking stats, which to me is different then measuring the all around performance of a guy.


*Also. Why do so many people think that other folks are getting mad because they have a different take then them? Isn't this the point of an online forum, to discuss and debate?

Do people actually get mad about this kind of stuff?

[BostonNut]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Do people actually get mad about this kind of stuff?

Yes, go read the MaGoat thread.

[Hellcat]

Brady had spare parts for receivers minus a year with Moss,Montana literally had the GOAT receiver this is such a silly discussion! Bring on the new season!

[49erRCCollector]

Originally Posted by Hellcat

Brady had spare parts for receivers minus a year with Moss,Montana literally had the GOAT receiver this is such a silly discussion! Bring on the new season!

Rice was drafted in 1981?

Oh... wait.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by BostonNut

Yes, go read the MaGoat thread.

If that's the Mahomes thread you are referring to, I read it all the time.

Who's actually getting angry? The folks who don't like Mahomes and are pissed he just had a MVP/Super Bowl/Super Bowl MVP season last year?

[49erRCCollector]

It is a funny debate. Joe's my guy. 'Cause he was the guy for me growing up.

Brady - amazing - Mahomes - Amazing so far.

Honestly, I'd kinda take Steve Young over all, probably.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by 49erRCCollector

It is a funny debate. Joe's my guy. 'Cause he was the guy for me growing up.

Brady - amazing - Mahomes - Amazing so far.

Honestly, I'd kinda take Steve Young over all, probably.

If Ben had actually put time in watching film and really trying to improve himself, he’d have been a top 5 all time QB.

His hubris was his downfall.

[49erRCCollector]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

If Ben had actually put time in watching film and really trying to improve himself, he’d have been a top 5 all time QB.

His hubris was his downfall.

I think there's truth to this. in his prime years he was really good and for a big guy he had a knack for escaping sacks and completing passes down field.

If they win that SB against the Packers, maybe one more, it's probably a different discussion.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by 49erRCCollector

I think there's truth to this. in his prime years he was really good and for a big guy he had a knack for escaping sacks and completing passes down field.

If they win that SB against the Packers, maybe one more, it's probably a different discussion.

Watch early Ben. He was incredible.

Years with a terrible Oline and his penchant to hang onto the ball destroyed his lower body.

[2010GBPackers]

Montana vs. Brady in their Super Bowl-winning years *before the rule change(s)*


Brady

9 games (3 SB wins)
11 TD's/3 INT's
63.1% completion rate
216.8 yds/game

Montana

12 games (4 SB wins)
32 TD's/10 INT's
66.5% completion rate
270.3 yds/game

Interpret it how you will.