**The Perennial MIKE TROUT Thread**

[BBases31]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

How was he better than Willie Mays?

New to baseball? Willie Mays started his career in 51 and retired in 73. Yes he was better than age 39-42 Willie Mays

[Tomi]

Originally Posted by BBases31

Trout has more WAR at 31 than Pujols did at 31.



Pujols’ age 35-42 seasons were by far and away the biggest embarassment of a top tier player in the history of the 4 major sports

Doesn't change his lifetime numbers. Still can't believe all you have is WAR to say Trout was better than Pujols. Check every other stat that Pujols beats Trout at by age 32 and it's not even close.

[ScooterD]

Originally Posted by BBases31

You can yell all you want about Trout’s accolades, there’s zero doubt in my mind he’s the best player that played between 1970 and 2020.

Originally Posted by BBases31

New to baseball? Willie Mays started his career in 51 and retired in 73. Yes he was better than age 39-42 Willie Mays

New to baseball - what the hell is wrong with you?

Willie Mays played during the period you defined - so you get all of Willie Mays. If what you meant to say was “1970-2020 DURING THAT PERIOD” - then your reply makes sense.

You were wrong. You words didn’t accurately or adequately convey what you were trying to say. It’s ok.

[BBases31]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

New to baseball - what the hell is wrong with you?

Willie Mays played during the period you defined - so you get all of Willie Mays. If what you meant to say was “1970-2020 DURING THAT PERIOD” - then your reply makes sense.

You were wrong. You words didn’t accurately or adequately convey what you were trying to say. It’s ok.

Relax

[BBases31]

Originally Posted by Tomi

Doesn't change his lifetime numbers. Still can't believe all you have is WAR to say Trout was better than Pujols. Check every other stat that Pujols beats Trout at by age 32 and it's not even close.

Through Age 31:

Fangraphs Defensive Value
Trout: 0.4
Pujols: -53.1

Fangraphs Baserunning Value
Trout: 63.7
Pujols: 3.5

wRC+:
Trout: 170
Pujols: 166

You’re right! It wasn’t close. Incoming “but baserunning and defense don’t matter”. But he was a better hitter too. Better in every facet of the game, just not close at all in baserunning and defense

[Tomi]

Originally Posted by BBases31

Through Age 31:

Fangraphs Defensive Value
Trout: 0.4
Pujols: -53.1

Fangraphs Baserunning Value
Trout: 63.7
Pujols: 3.5

wRC+:
Trout: 170
Pujols: 166

You’re right! It wasn’t close. Incoming “but baserunning and defense don’t matter”. But he was a better hitter too. Better in every facet of the game, just not close at all in baserunning and defense

Analytics is laughable comparing these 2 in their 1st 10 to 12 years. Just look at actual numbers Pujols put up compared to Trout. Hits, runs, doubles home runs, rbi, average, less strikeouts. Just not even close.

[caflisch78]

Every single Trout card I purchased in 2012-2017 I'm up on.

Every single Trout card I purchased after 2020, i'm down on.

Simple market timing, player performance was just a catalyst for more downward move in Trout's pricing considering the injuries, lack of hardware, etc.

If Trout gets back, even for a little bit, his cards will see a brief resurgence but we have likely seen the highs of Trout pricing. Either way I'm pretty much holding what I have until HOF at this point. A trade to a contender could be another positive bump in pricing or the re-signing of Ohtani in LA. People just want a little hopium to start the train rolling again.

[finfangfan]

You also have to factor in that the Angels will be entering the off-season with likely their weakest organizational outlook since Trout took off. So, unless he gets traded Trout is stuck on a bad team for a couple season at least.

With Ohtani gone, Trout also likely will be DHing a lot more to hopefully increase the number of games he can play in a season.

[BBases31]

Originally Posted by Tomi

Analytics is laughable comparing these 2 in their 1st 10 to 12 years.

What if I told you every single number is an analytic of what happened on the field? Whether it be batting average, RBIs, BsR, or wRC+

Just look at actual numbers Pujols put up compared to Trout. Hits, runs, doubles home runs, rbi, average, less strikeouts. Just not even close.

wRC+ takes into account all that. And Trout has a higher wRC+. You can be in denial that Trout is a better hitter, that's OK

[BBases31]

Originally Posted by caflisch78

If Trout gets back, even for a little bit, his cards will see a brief resurgence but we have likely seen the highs of Trout pricing. Either way I'm pretty much holding what I have until HOF at this point. A trade to a contender could be another positive bump in pricing or the re-signing of Ohtani in LA. People just want a little hopium to start the train rolling again.

I think it's nearly impossible to for his cards to go up without a trade to a different team. So much so, that I'm making a patented BBases Call that Trout cards will definitely be lower 1 year from now than they are today if he's stays on the Angels.

[Grave252]

I don't follow Trout too closely, so forgive me for my ignorance, but isn't there a very real scenario in which Trout prices continue to fall for the foreseeable future? He was a hobby god and on pace to be a true legend, but as time progresses he's been riddled with injuries, is on bad teams, has zero post season success or accolades, etc. Trout feels ripe to be the type of player that quickly falls out of hobby love and fades into some form of obscurity in which he is remembered for being a good not great player, even though he was/is a great player. Sure, there are a good amount of collectors out there, but there are more gamblers, and I am trying to see the case in which any of those people are holding his cards in 5 years. Just seems like there is a lot of downside risk here.

Is this a garbage take? Truly asking since I only peripherally follow Trout and the on goings of baseball.

[SupermanBrandon]

Originally Posted by BBases31

I think it's nearly impossible to for his cards to go up without a trade to a different team. So much so, that I'm making a patented BBases Call that Trout cards will definitely be lower 1 year from now than they are today if he's stays on the Angels.

Do I get credit for calling this for the past 15 months? Im willing to continue calling it. It is safe to say it until this time next year. Still an amazing player (with a great career) and also a big hobby hero. Doesn't mean his card prices aren't out of whack. AGAIN...HOF PLAYER!!!

[finfangfan]

Yeah… 2 separate negative factors at play here.

1) overall card market is still in the midst of a post-COVID correction which is affecting the secondary value of pretty much every trading card (sports and nonsports)… not just Trout.

And

2) the fact that at the end of the 2023 season Trout will have only played in roughly 66% of all Angels games played since the start of the 2017 season. Yes, Trout is the king of WAR but when his REPLACEMENT is forced to appear in 33% of the games he is under contract for it kind of exacerbates the issue people have with Trout. He’s great when healthy but if he’s only healthy 66% of the time it’s tough to help his team advance to the playoffs.

Plus, Trout still has YEARS left in his big contract so things can get even more sour if he continues to be unable to play games and help his team to contention.

[BBases31]

Originally Posted by finfangfan

Yeah… 2 separate negative factors at play here.

1) overall card market is still in the midst of a post-COVID correction which is affecting the secondary value of pretty much every trading card (sports and nonsports)… not just Trout.

Not true. Kershaw's stuff has tripled in the last two years. Posey is up a bunch. Harper's up. I could list plenty more. If you only collect 2020+ modern, then you'd think every card is down.

[Ferg1945]

Well.... we might have an answer to the question:

[Bcr]

His most memorable moment will forever be being struck out by Ohtani to lose the WBC

[rngrdanny22]

Originally Posted by Ferg1945

Well.... we might have an answer to the question:

"... and accepting my fate of never making the playoffs again."

[SupermanBrandon]

That's disappointing. Hopefully he's just giving a QB answer right now. Fans want to see this guy play in at least one meaningful game in his career.

[Ferg1945]

Originally Posted by rngrdanny22

"... and accepting my fate of never making the playoffs again."

The future for this organization is not great.

They need a complete overhaul. The minors are in horrible shape... little to no help from it. Rendon can't be counted on. Ohtani, if he's smart and has good advice... he should be moving on.

If Mike doesn't request a trade his future in this hobby will be done. No stats will help him. It will be clear he just wants the money and not the pressure to win.

[BAHoopla]

Not sure he cares if he makes the playoffs. His last decade of his career..play 100 games and go fishing

[tconte]

Originally Posted by Ferg1945

Well.... we might have an answer to the question:

And get to ready to support the Birds! Go Eagles!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ferg1945]

Originally Posted by BAHoopla

Not sure he cares if he makes the playoffs. His last decade of his career..play 100 games and go fishing

and most importantly.....



Playoff baseball would kill the opportunity to attend Eagles home games.

Priorities!!

[Rabs]

Such a waste if he stays.

[BBases31]

Originally Posted by Rabs

Such a waste if he stays.

If the Dodgers lose out on Ohtani, I think they'd be the heavy favorite for Trout. Tons of assets to trade and a smart team. Dumb teams will think the contract is too big for the production fall off but smart teams know he's worth it. Rays are possible with the new stadium secured. Any team decently smart with assets is a Trout threat

[awz50]

Originally Posted by Ferg1945

Well.... we might have an answer to the question:

Lame.