Product Heirachy

[Shaz]

Hi Guys,

Im a basketball guy slowly getting into Soccer cards - I have no idea where to start so slowly reading the threads to get my head around how it works on this side of the fence.

I had a couple of questions - first roughly how are products like, Select/Prizm, Flawless, Topps Chrome, Topps Stadium Club, etc rank?

Also in terms of player values - in what order does Messi, Ronaldo, Mbappe and Haaland rank and what x the value? For example, in basketball MJ is king and Kobe and LBJ are valued around 3/4 times less than MJ and valued around the same price as each other.

Hoping this is not too much of a noob question.

[Skattered888]

Flawless and eminence are the ultra high end. There has only been 1release of flawless and that was back in 2016. Those cards along with 2 eminence releases are the ones that commands the most as a set.

Then comes prizm world cup 2014. The first ever “premium release” of a soccer set. Highly sought after due to obvious reasons.

When it comes to yearly release products, chrome is king imo. Followed by prizm EPL, and maybe merlin. But yeah, hands down, for ROI wise, chrome. Specifically chrome UEFA competition.

When it comes to value, at current market, i believe the order should be Messi, Halland, Mbappe, and CR7.

Messi still coming frm his WC success and how well he’s doing in miami at the moment, halland at the back of man city treble, and mbappe being relatively new to card world. CR7 unfortunately has dropped abit since his move to Saudi.

Off course all these are related to the set and kit. Eg: CR7 in real jersey would worth a whole lot more $$ compared to his juventus ones. Messis barcelona kit will command more compared to his psg ones, etc.

Special things to look out, Messi in Miami kit next year if miami ended getting into the finals. Topps is releasing Dynasty champions league, that would be big.

[YayNJ]

Originally Posted by Skattered888

mbappe being relatively new to card world.

what?

Mbappe has had cards for the last seven years, that's twice as long as the average career length of an NFL player, and more than twice the average career of a player in MLB!

[Shaz]

This is awesome and a great start for me to start researching more.

I love the look of Eminence but dont like the thickness of the cards.

I knew flawless was huge but didn't realise the release was only for 1 year so that makes sense.

Im an on card auto guy and it's surprising to see how little on card autos there are of the big 4.

[panenkacards]

Roughly in my view:

On the Panini side:
- Eminence/Flawless
- Impeccable/Immaculate/National Treasures
- Prizm World Cup
- Select / League-specific Prizm (EPL only league with Prizm right now, Serie A and La Liga get Prizm via Chronicles)
- Obsidian / Donruss (Optic is in Donruss for soccer)
- Chronicles
- Score / Elite

On the Topps side:
- Chrome UEFA / Sapphire UEFA
- Merlin Chrome
- Museum (not a lot of love for this, Dynasty should be a significant improvement) / Inception
- Finest UEFA / Stadium Club Chrome UEFA / League-specific Chrome (right now only Bundesliga, had Premier League in the past) / team-specific Chrome (PSG, Juventus, Bayern, Salzburg, Atletico Madrid, etc. have had these)
- League-specific Finest (Bundesliga only) / random sets (Deco, Simplicidad, Knockout, Gold, etc.)
- Flagship
- Flagship subsets (Japan, Carnaval, Jade, 1st Edition, etc.) / team sets

Definitely wouldn't put Mbappe or Haaland above CR7 as far as values go. It's Messi by a significant amount (since WC win), then CR7, then Haaland and Mbappe.

[kingb22]

Originally Posted by panenkacards

Roughly in my view:

On the Panini side:
- Eminence/Flawless
- Impeccable/Immaculate/National Treasures
- Prizm World Cup
- Select / League-specific Prizm (EPL only league with Prizm right now, Serie A and La Liga get Prizm via Chronicles)
- Obsidian / Donruss (Optic is in Donruss for soccer)
- Chronicles
- Score / Elite

On the Topps side:
- Chrome UEFA / Sapphire UEFA
- Merlin Chrome
- Museum (not a lot of love for this, Dynasty should be a significant improvement) / Inception
- Finest UEFA / Stadium Club Chrome UEFA / League-specific Chrome (right now only Bundesliga, had Premier League in the past) / team-specific Chrome (PSG, Juventus, Bayern, Salzburg, Atletico Madrid, etc. have had these)
- League-specific Finest (Bundesliga only) / random sets (Deco, Simplicidad, Knockout, Gold, etc.)
- Flagship
- Flagship subsets (Japan, Carnaval, Jade, 1st Edition, etc.) / team sets

Definitely wouldn't put Mbappe or Haaland above CR7 as far as values go. It's Messi by a significant amount (since WC win), then CR7, then Haaland and Mbappe.

I would agree with most of this. However, some of the sets lower down on the list can provide something fairly unique to soccer - the "unicorn" rookie cards. For example, Darwin Nunez (Liverpool) ONLY had Obisidian as his rookie card (195 base cards, and maybe another 200 parallels). Bukayo Saka had Impeccable (Metal rookie subset), Imac base, and Chronicles Pitch Kings subset - a total of maybe 300 rookie cards (plus a sticker - different topic ). So in rookie cards, player trumps set if they are very limited. Otherwise the above list makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, the cases of these unicorn cards are going down since every league has sets now, Topps expanded to all UEFA club competitions, etc.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by Shaz

Hi Guys,

Im a basketball guy slowly getting into Soccer cards - I have no idea where to start so slowly reading the threads to get my head around how it works on this side of the fence.

Are you only interested in current products featuring active players?

Or are you also interested in older products featuring retired all-time greats?

With regard to current products, the only stuff that isn't grossly overpriced is Topps UEFA Champions League/Club Competitions.

However, there are a lot of older products, especially from the 90's, that are reasonably priced and fun to rip and offer a lot of cards of all-time greats.

[panenkacards]

Originally Posted by kingb22

I would agree with most of this. However, some of the sets lower down on the list can provide something fairly unique to soccer - the "unicorn" rookie cards. For example, Darwin Nunez (Liverpool) ONLY had Obisidian as his rookie card (195 base cards, and maybe another 200 parallels). Bukayo Saka had Impeccable (Metal rookie subset), Imac base, and Chronicles Pitch Kings subset - a total of maybe 300 rookie cards (plus a sticker - different topic ). So in rookie cards, player trumps set if they are very limited. Otherwise the above list makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, the cases of these unicorn cards are going down since every league has sets now, Topps expanded to all UEFA club competitions, etc.

Yeah, I was speaking set-wide. But the checklist variation is definitely part of why people like Merlin Chrome - tends to have some different rookies who don't make it in other sets. To your point though, that may be a thing of the past now that Topps is doing UCC for Topps Chrome as opposed to just UCL.

[YayNJ]

2018 Eminence is probably the best modern set, but out of reach for most collectors.

Nobility is my all time accessible set, however it's starting to go the way of Panini Treble and the cool kids have decided it's ultra cool and the prices have shot up.

[Shaz]

Only interested in Messi, Haaland, Mbappe and Ronaldo so none of the older guys.

Another quick question - where does say a Chrome Red Refractor /5 or /10 sit versus a Select Gold /10? Is one valued more than the other?

[Skattered888]

Originally Posted by YayNJ

what?

Mbappe has had cards for the last seven years, that's twice as long as the average career length of an NFL player, and more than twice the average career of a player in MLB!

You know, i was talking about how he only started signing last year with the psg set, but sure.

[Skattered888]

Originally Posted by Shaz

Only interested in Messi, Haaland, Mbappe and Ronaldo so none of the older guys.

Another quick question - where does say a Chrome Red Refractor /5 or /10 sit versus a Select Gold /10? Is one valued more than the other?

Chrome 100%. Select is up there, but chrome is king for mid range products.

If you are only after on card/match worn, then your option is fairly limited. 2016-2019 flawless/eminence/nat treasures/immaculate are on card and match/player worn for the most part.

After that though, its a hit and miss, each of those set i mentioned earlier still have some on card auto/match worn after 2019, but majority now are sticker/non associated (except 2022 eminence obviously).

You can also find match worn stuff on select and museum but those are also few and far in between

There are also other on card stuff for clubs exclusive sets (PSG, dortmund, liverpool sets etc) but they are mad expensive, and some impeccable EPL also have on card.

[YayNJ]

Originally Posted by Skattered888

You know, i was talking about how he only started signing last year with the psg set, but sure.

You never made that clear in the slightest.

[GrangerCollectr]

I don't think anyone has brought up 2016 Noir as it is one of my favorite sets with on-card autographs and quite possible the best looking base cards of all soccer sets (all numbered /75). And if you want Topps Chrome Red Refractors.....go 2017 as that set will go down as one of the greatest soccer sets ever made.

[MonsterTruck20]

Originally Posted by GrangerCollectr

I don't think anyone has brought up 2016 Noir as it is one of my favorite sets with on-card autographs and quite possible the best looking base cards of all soccer sets (all numbered /75).

2016 Noir is a beautiful set and among my favorites as well.

Originally Posted by panenkacards

Definitely wouldn't put Mbappe or Haaland above CR7 as far as values go. It's Messi by a significant amount (since WC win), then CR7, then Haaland and Mbappe.

In the long run, I also don't expect Mbappe or Haaland values to be even close to CR7. And I expect CR7 to slightly close the gap to Messi. These two will forever be intertwined.

[cardbuster]

Originally Posted by YayNJ

what?

Mbappe has had cards for the last seven years, that's twice as long as the average career length of an NFL player, and more than twice the average career of a player in MLB!

I'm getting the subtle feeling that some people don't know or understand what football really is and the magnitude of the phenomenon worldwide.

[yiguiri2002]

Originally Posted by cardbuster

I'm getting the subtle feeling that some people don't know or understand what football really is and the magnitude of the phenomenon worldwide.

Also, the Mbappe equivalents for football and baseball play longer than a decade on average. Mbappe's first cards were in 2017 and because of Ligue 1, wasn't in a lot of sets until 2020.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by MonsterTruck20

In the long run, I also don't expect Mbappe or Haaland values to be even close to CR7.

I think Mbappe could easily surpass CR7 due to his success with the French National Team. He's already played in two WC Finals and won one, whereas CR7 never even made it to a WC final, with his best performance being a 4th place finish in 2006.

And there is also the factor that many collectors dislike CR7 because of his arrogant personality.

[MonsterTruck20]

Originally Posted by mfw13

I think Mbappe could easily surpass CR7 due to his success with the French National Team. He's already played in two WC Finals and won one, whereas CR7 never even made it to a WC final, with his best performance being a 4th place finish in 2006.

And there is also the factor that many collectors dislike CR7 because of his arrogant personality.

Nobody expects Portugal to reach a World Cup final. They had only qualified for three World Cups before CR7 made his debut. 4th place was a massive achievement for such a small country. As was winning the Euro in 2016, their first major trophy.

Imo, for Mbappe to surpass CR7 values, he would need to:
- Finally get out of his comfort zone and move to a major European club
- Win 3-5 Champions League titles
- Win 3-5 Ballon d'Ors
- Break a lot of records on the way
- Become a major brand

[YayNJ]

Originally Posted by mfw13

I think Mbappe could easily surpass CR7 due to his success with the French National Team.

Nope.

[panenkacards]

Originally Posted by mfw13

I think Mbappe could easily surpass CR7 due to his success with the French National Team. He's already played in two WC Finals and won one, whereas CR7 never even made it to a WC final, with his best performance being a 4th place finish in 2006.

And there is also the factor that many collectors dislike CR7 because of his arrogant personality.

There's nothing easy about the amount of titles and stats Mbappe would have to rack up to surpass Cristiano Ronaldo. Ronaldo had already won a Champions League and Ballon d'Or at Mbappe's age and this was right as he stepped foot in Madrid, with 12 legendary years of European success yet to come.

If collectors don't like CR7's personality, they won't like Mbappe's. And who knows if Mbappe will be able to transform his playstyle the way Ronaldo did multiple times to stay on top of the game.

[Ianhatcher]

This has been discussed ad nauseam but CR7's personality perception is purely media driven to prop up Messi and make him seem like some humble guy and feed the rivalry.

Imagine if CR7 did the things Zlatan did. They would lose their minds if he had taken out an ad announcing he was here and you are welcome or sent Lebron his jersey back signed. Probably would have called him a racist for that one.

[YayNJ]

all the nice fellas offer people $375,000 settlements and forced NDA's after totally consensual sex

[MonsterTruck20]

Originally Posted by YayNJ

all the nice fellas offer people $375,000 settlements and forced NDA's after totally consensual sex

It's mostly rich fellas. Not all of them are nice. Some are. The woman in this case was not forced to accept the money. But she did.

Not the first celebrity who paid dearly for bedding the wrong gal. And certainly not the last one.

[YayNJ]

What a guy!