Question about 1993 Marvel Universe Promo

DynaEtch · 12-12-2023, 08:10 PM

I am looking for answers to a longtime Marvel promo riddle. What Im really looking for is data, if anyone has it.

1993 Marvel Universe series 4 had a 9-card red foil 2099 insert set that everyone knows. There were 3 different 3-up promo uncut sheets made as promos for these, shown below. They were exclusive to the 6th annual Capital City Sales conference- presumably were given away at it. The panels come encased a nearly inch thick plastic lucite holder. The backs are serial numbered /1200. The question is...are they really out of 1200, or are they actually out of 400, and the three together make up 1200.

Will call this "Panel A". (pic from abs-cards).

"Panel B"

"Panel C" (from ebay)

So are there 1200 A's, 1200 B's, 1200 C's, for 3600 total promos? Or are there 1200 panels total, broken up into 400 of each. The way serial numbers work, you'd think it would would mean each is /1200, since they are separate items and numbered on the back to that. But a few things have me questioning this. First, 3,600 of these promos sounds like an awful lot to be handing out at a sales conference (which presumably isnt for general public, but for dealers etc). Second, these are relatively hard to find, and you'd think you'd see more if 3600 were out there. I could also see the whole lot lumped together as 'the' promo from this set at the conference, meaning 1200 total.

But if there are 1200 total, how are the numbers divided up between the three versions? This is the data I seek. If anyone either has, or can find examples online of serial numbers matched-up with promo fronts (such as the A example above). Here are all the serial number data I have currently (not much!):

Panel A

761
895
955? (questioned)
988
1120

Panel B

534
607
664
681
704

Panel C

854
1041

There is another panel A showing in pics on worthpoint on a google image search but unfortunately it's so small with low resolution, that I cant make out the number.*

It did not escape me that the Panel Bs are all huddled rather close together. The first obvious thought is they could have broken it down into first 400 are A, second 400 are B, and last 400 are C. This is immediately falsified by the above data. Another thought is they printed them as A,B,C,A,B,C,A,B,C,A,B,C.....in order. This also cannot be the case as each panel group's numbers would leave the same remainder when divided by 3...which is not the case (in panel B, 534 is exactly divisible by 3, whereas 607 leaves a remainder of 1). I subjected the above numbers to a large amount of numerical tests, testing for various conrguences modulo 6,9,12,18,36,81, etc....and I cant find one scheme that seems to fit all the serial numbers, and explain them all.

Perhaps they really are just each numbered to /1200 for 3600 total, since no numerical pattern seems to fit the numbering....but I still wonder if it's the other case. If ever one instance of a same serial number, say #587 turns up for two different panels, which has never happened..then it would immediately confirm there are 3600 total. This may be the only way, actually, to confirm 3600 total is the case. Due to rarity it's unlikely for that to happen.

But if anyone knows more about these, or has any more serial numbers to add to the above list, please let me know.

*: Can anyone make out the serial number on this Panel A? All I can tell for sure is it's 3 digits and not 4.

exotechktx · 12-12-2023, 10:45 PM

By a hilarious case of not paying attention and relying on hazy memory, I ended up with 2 panel As, numbered 895 and 988. I've always assumed that they were /1200 each.

DynaEtch · 12-12-2023, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exotechktx

By a hilarious case of not paying attention and relying on hazy memory, I ended up with 2 panel As, numbered 895 and 988. I've always assumed that they were /1200 each.

oohh do I wish you still had pics. Are you pretty sure those were definitely the numbers, and they were A's?

Because something just occurred to me. That first pic is from abs-cards. It indeed does look like its the front and back of the same promo, but can we be sure it's not just two in one pic, one facing up and the other facing down? Because if that's not actually a #1120 A, then every single other serial number in that list above supports the first 400 A, second 400 B, and third 400 C theory. Awfully coincidental.

Take panel B. If at random, we were to pull 5 serial numbers from 1200, the chances of them all being within the same block of 400 would be....1 in 243. Yet that's what we observe here. Actually they're within the same block of 300, even harder.

That last low-res pic would give some insights here because it's panel A, but I cant see what the number is.

exotechktx · 12-12-2023, 11:00 PM

DynaEtch · 12-12-2023, 11:29 PM

Thank you! Ok there goes the first 400, second 400, third 400 theory. That also makes me think the 1120 from abs-cards is really for an A. I updated the list with your numbers. Trying to get a more complete picture of this with more and more numbers, to find any possible clues.

Perhaps a little strange that all 10 examples Im seeing are >500 and none are low number. Again if totally random, that would have about a 1 in 250 chance. Hopefully we can add some to the list and see if that continues. You definitely might be right that each really is just /1200 for 3600....but I’m gonna leave the 1200 total as a chance still, if long shot. I guess it can still be a chance until one single example of a same-number-different-panel is produced

Rictor · 12-13-2023, 04:20 PM

Capital City Distribution was a large comic book distributor that got bought out by Diamond. I'm sure there were thousands of attendees at their sales conference back in the day. This would be a mixture of their vendors (comic retailers, toy manufacturers, trading card manufacturers, clothing manufacturers, etc.) and their customers (mail order, comic stores, trading card stores, toy stores, etc.). Lot of different companies you wouldn't even think about have connections to a big distributor like this. There might be 100 people attending from the cardboard box manufacturing industry alone, LOL, trying to schmooze them into getting their shipping boxes from them.

DynaEtch · 12-13-2023, 04:53 PM

I never did know what that conference was all about (I was a kid at the time just collecting cards), that’s good info. The way you’re saying how big it was, well maybe there really were 3600. Based on exo’s posts also, I’m leaning towards they were each /1200, and feel a bit silly even creating this thread to ask the question.

I wonder, why if 3600 exist, are these seemingly rarer to come by on the market….but then I remember it’s the (semi) junk wax era in 1993 Marvel cards. 3600 actually is a pretty small number compared to most other stuff marvel card related at the time.

fabiani12333 · 12-13-2023, 10:25 PM

The serial number from Worthpoint looks like 955 to me.

Rictor · 12-14-2023, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

I never did know what that conference was all about (I was a kid at the time just collecting cards), that’s good info. The way you’re saying how big it was, well maybe there really were 3600. Based on exo’s posts also, I’m leaning towards they were each /1200, and feel a bit silly even creating this thread to ask the question.

I wonder, why if 3600 exist, are these seemingly rarer to come by on the market….but then I remember it’s the (semi) junk wax era in 1993 Marvel cards. 3600 actually is a pretty small number compared to most other stuff marvel card related at the time.

I'm sure a lot of people tossed them if they weren't comic retailers. Even at comic cons where stuff like this is given to fans, I'm surprised by how much of it gets tossed. I see so much promo stuff on the floor or in the trash cans at cons. I've rescued some of it.

Or it bounces around in a bag all day and gets bent up and tossed because of condition.

The late nineties were the golden age of free con promos. I remember paying for my 3-day Wizard World tickets and sometimes the hotel just by selling the comic book promos I got with admission and at the booths. And back then all the comic artists signed for free. Stan Lee signed for free, but you had to dedicate an entire day of the con to waiting in line to meet him.

DynaEtch · 12-14-2023, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rictor

I'm sure a lot of people tossed them if they weren't comic retailers. Even at comic cons where stuff like this is given to fans, I'm surprised by how much of it gets tossed. I see so much promo stuff on the floor or in the trash cans at cons. I've rescued some of it.

Or it bounces around in a bag all day and gets bent up and tossed because of condition.

The late nineties were the golden age of free con promos. I remember paying for my 3-day Wizard World tickets and sometimes the hotel just by selling the comic book promos I got with admission and at the booths. And back then all the comic artists signed for free. Stan Lee signed for free, but you had to dedicate an entire day of the con to waiting in line to meet him.

Might have been less inclined to toss them though considering they were entombed in nearly a thick inch lucite case

serial numbered too. Who knows though.

Stan Lee auto for free! I've heard from multiple posters now just how awesome the 90s were for promos and sigs. The problem now is the major cons seem more focused on pop culture and coslplay, and less on collectibles like comics and cards. Can you imagine UD doing a triple panel promo like this for like a MM set, giving it away at a con? It aint gonna happen. Closest thing they did recently were the oversized MM16 promos given at the 2014 SDCC where Jusko signed them. That was 9 years ago and 4 MM sets ago.

fabiani- thanks, I thought the last two digits were 55 as well, was unsure about the first. Your 9 guess is plausible, so I added it to the list with a question mark. Can anyone find one of these serial numbered less than 500?

BJohns015 · 12-14-2023, 11:14 PM

Panel A with Doom and Vulture serial number 761 on Facebook group

DynaEtch · 12-14-2023, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BJohns015

Panel A with Doom and Vulture serial number 761 on Facebook group

Added to the list.

Isnt it weird how 12 of 12 are over 500 in number...that would be like 1 in 645 chance if 12 numbers were picked randomly from 1200. Makes me think there are non-random elements afoot.

Also can anyone find a numerical pattern that could explain all those numbers among A,B,C, or are we just conceding they were each /1200.

exotechktx · 12-14-2023, 11:59 PM

My guess is that while 1200 were produced, only certain blocks of each were actually given out to the public, with the rest being distributed internally or something to that extent...

DynaEtch · 12-15-2023, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exotechktx

My guess is that while 1200 were produced, only certain blocks of each were actually given out to the public, with the rest being distributed internally or something to that extent...

That’s exactly the kind of non-random element I was thinking. Would probably have to add more numbers to get a firmer picture, but 1 in 645 is too much for pure chance I think.

I guess it could be possible that very low numbers just tend to be held back more and not put on the market and sold, but that shouldn’t matter for like a 2XX/1200 or 3XX/1200. I feel like we should be seeing some of them.

12-13-2023, 04:53 PM	#7
DynaEtch Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 6,090	Question about 1993 Marvel Universe Promo I never did know what that conference was all about (I was a kid at the time just collecting cards), that’s good info. The way you’re saying how big it was, well maybe there really were 3600. Based on exo’s posts also, I’m leaning towards they were each /1200, and feel a bit silly even creating this thread to ask the question. I wonder, why if 3600 exist, are these seemingly rarer to come by on the market….but then I remember it’s the (semi) junk wax era in 1993 Marvel cards. 3600 actually is a pretty small number compared to most other stuff marvel card related at the time. __________________ ~~~ '90s trading cards === Golden Era ~~~

12-12-2023, 08:10 PM	#1
DynaEtch Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 6,090	Question about 1993 Marvel Universe Promo I am looking for answers to a longtime Marvel promo riddle. What Im really looking for is data, if anyone has it. 1993 Marvel Universe series 4 had a 9-card red foil 2099 insert set that everyone knows. There were 3 different 3-up promo uncut sheets made as promos for these, shown below. They were exclusive to the 6th annual Capital City Sales conference- presumably were given away at it. The panels come encased a nearly inch thick plastic lucite holder. The backs are serial numbered /1200. The question is...are they really out of 1200, or are they actually out of 400, and the three together make up 1200. Will call this "Panel A". (pic from abs-cards). "Panel B" "Panel C" (from ebay) So are there 1200 A's, 1200 B's, 1200 C's, for 3600 total promos? Or are there 1200 panels total, broken up into 400 of each. The way serial numbers work, you'd think it would would mean each is /1200, since they are separate items and numbered on the back to that. But a few things have me questioning this. First, 3,600 of these promos sounds like an awful lot to be handing out at a sales conference (which presumably isnt for general public, but for dealers etc). Second, these are relatively hard to find, and you'd think you'd see more if 3600 were out there. I could also see the whole lot lumped together as 'the' promo from this set at the conference, meaning 1200 total. But if there are 1200 total, how are the numbers divided up between the three versions? This is the data I seek. If anyone either has, or can find examples online of serial numbers matched-up with promo fronts (such as the A example above). Here are all the serial number data I have currently (not much!): Panel A 761 895 955? (questioned) 988 1120 Panel B 534 607 664 681 704 Panel C 854 1041 There is another panel A showing in pics on worthpoint on a google image search but unfortunately it's so small with low resolution, that I cant make out the number.* It did not escape me that the Panel Bs are all huddled rather close together. The first obvious thought is they could have broken it down into first 400 are A, second 400 are B, and last 400 are C. This is immediately falsified by the above data. Another thought is they printed them as A,B,C,A,B,C,A,B,C,A,B,C.....in order. This also cannot be the case as each panel group's numbers would leave the same remainder when divided by 3...which is not the case (in panel B, 534 is exactly divisible by 3, whereas 607 leaves a remainder of 1). I subjected the above numbers to a large amount of numerical tests, testing for various conrguences modulo 6,9,12,18,36,81, etc....and I cant find one scheme that seems to fit all the serial numbers, and explain them all. Perhaps they really are just each numbered to /1200 for 3600 total, since no numerical pattern seems to fit the numbering....but I still wonder if it's the other case. If ever one instance of a same serial number, say #587 turns up for two different panels, which has never happened..then it would immediately confirm there are 3600 total. This may be the only way, actually, to confirm 3600 total is the case. Due to rarity it's unlikely for that to happen. But if anyone knows more about these, or has any more serial numbers to add to the above list, please let me know. : Can anyone make out the serial number on this Panel A? All I can tell for sure is it's 3 digits and not 4. __________________ ~~~ '90s trading cards === Golden Era* ~~~ Last edited by DynaEtch; 12-14-2023 at 11:31 PM.

12-12-2023, 10:45 PM	#2
exotechktx Member Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Maryland Posts: 200	By a hilarious case of not paying attention and relying on hazy memory, I ended up with 2 panel As, numbered 895 and 988. I've always assumed that they were /1200 each.

12-12-2023, 11:00 PM	#4
exotechktx Member Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Maryland Posts: 200

12-12-2023, 11:29 PM	#5
DynaEtch Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 6,090	Question about 1993 Marvel Universe Promo Thank you! Ok there goes the first 400, second 400, third 400 theory. That also makes me think the 1120 from abs-cards is really for an A. I updated the list with your numbers. Trying to get a more complete picture of this with more and more numbers, to find any possible clues. Perhaps a little strange that all 10 examples Im seeing are >500 and none are low number. Again if totally random, that would have about a 1 in 250 chance. Hopefully we can add some to the list and see if that continues. You definitely might be right that each really is just /1200 for 3600....but I’m gonna leave the 1200 total as a chance still, if long shot. I guess it can still be a chance until one single example of a same-number-different-panel is produced __________________ ~~~ '90s trading cards === Golden Era ~~~ Last edited by DynaEtch; 12-12-2023 at 11:49 PM.

12-13-2023, 04:20 PM	#6
Rictor Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 1,622 rictor1 rictor	Capital City Distribution was a large comic book distributor that got bought out by Diamond. I'm sure there were thousands of attendees at their sales conference back in the day. This would be a mixture of their vendors (comic retailers, toy manufacturers, trading card manufacturers, clothing manufacturers, etc.) and their customers (mail order, comic stores, trading card stores, toy stores, etc.). Lot of different companies you wouldn't even think about have connections to a big distributor like this. There might be 100 people attending from the cardboard box manufacturing industry alone, LOL, trying to schmooze them into getting their shipping boxes from them.

12-13-2023, 10:25 PM	#8
fabiani12333 Temporarily Suspended Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 9,031	The serial number from Worthpoint looks like 955 to me.

12-14-2023, 11:14 PM	#11
BJohns015 Member Join Date: Aug 2023 Posts: 27	Panel A with Doom and Vulture serial number 761 on Facebook group

12-14-2023, 11:59 PM	#13
exotechktx Member Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Maryland Posts: 200	My guess is that while 1200 were produced, only certain blocks of each were actually given out to the public, with the rest being distributed internally or something to that extent...