Can anyone tell why this card has been marked as altered?

dannyw824 · 12-27-2023, 07:50 PM

Just wondering what has been altered on this card

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mjohnatgt · 12-27-2023, 08:04 PM

We won't be able to tell you. The black may have been retouched with marker. Part of the signature may have been removed. It may have been trimmed or doesn't measure full size. Look at the card under a bright light or black light to see if you can spot discoloration.

discodanman45 · 12-27-2023, 08:33 PM

I doubt the card is trimmed or doesn't meet minimum size. Cards that fit CGC holders exactly like this are exactly standard sized. The 4 corners each having issues is another sign it is most likely trimmed.

Something strange is up with the auto. It almost looks like someone tried to trace back over the "S" on the bottom. CGC has also been catching cards that have substances on them. With products like Kurts Card Care, there are many reasons for the authentic altered designation.

Did you submit the card? If you did, CGC will give notes why it was altered. The due the same thing as Beckett with a sticky note telling you why. If this is not your submission, the original person that submitted the card should know.

dannyw824 · 12-27-2023, 08:37 PM

I Purchased on comc and sent to cgc through comc, Looking at the autograph blown up the s does seem to have a extra line on it to make it longer

Quote:

Originally Posted by discodanman45

I doubt the card is trimmed or doesn't meet minimum size. Cards that fit CGC holders exactly like this are exactly standard sized. The 4 corners each having issues is another sign it is most likely trimmed.

Something strange is up with the auto. It almost looks like someone tried to trace back over the "S" on the bottom. CGC has also been catching cards that have substances on them. With products like Kurts Card Care, there are many reasons for the authentic altered designation.

Did you submit the card? If you did, CGC will give notes why it was altered. The due the same thing as Beckett with a sticky note telling you why. If this is not your submission, the original person that submitted the card should know.

discodanman45 · 12-27-2023, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyw824

I Purchased on comc and sent to cgc through comc, Looking at the autograph blown up the s does seem to have a extra line on it to make it longer

You can see that it is very likely that someone tried to fix the auto. I blew up the auto from CGC and you can see that the bottom of the "S" was likely redrawn.

SLGSports · 12-30-2023, 12:10 AM

What if the signer did the fix because she noticed it was a bad auto. Wouldn't that be an authentic card with an authentic auto?

mjohnatgt · 12-30-2023, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLGSports

What if the signer did the fix because she noticed it was a bad auto. Wouldn't that be an authentic card with an authentic auto?

Yes, but unless it was being witnessed, not sure which authenticator is going to look at it and make that assumption.

dannyw824 · 12-30-2023, 11:02 AM

Comc refunded me for this and the reason for the altered grade was the retraced autograph

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discodanman45 · 12-30-2023, 12:18 PM

How hard is it for these companies to put a note online with the cert number? We shouldn't have to be the one's acting as a detective. Please don't try to fix your cards people. A bad auto is better than this monstrosity. I like CGC, but they need to do better like all grading companies.

varjakpaul · 12-30-2023, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by discodanman45

How hard is it for these companies to put a note online with the cert number? We shouldn't have to be the one's acting as a detective. Please don't try to fix your cards people. A bad auto is better than this monstrosity. I like CGC, but they need to do better like all grading companies.

Agreed - just put "RETOUCHED SIGNATURE" or "INK ADDED" or something under the info like a parallel.

bub838 · 12-30-2023, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLGSports

What if the signer did the fix because she noticed it was a bad auto. Wouldn't that be an authentic card with an authentic auto?

I think this is what happened, she realized she made a bad sig and retraced part of it. No way for CSG to know who did it though so they played it safe. Makes sense to me, just bad luck.

towerymt · 12-30-2023, 11:45 PM

No chance the signer went back over that.

PLB9eight · 12-31-2023, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by towerymt

No chance the signer went back over that.

Sure there is

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towerymt · 12-31-2023, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PLB9eight

Sure there is

None chance, zero, nil. Altered.

rnocards · 01-01-2024, 04:31 AM

Under magnification, it would show two different blue color pens, if someone else did it, right? If it was her re-tracing, then it wouldn't show a difference.

So, it's Altered, because under Mag, another pen layer is showing on top of the original pen.

I'm just guessing.

PLB9eight · 01-01-2024, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by towerymt

None chance, zero, nil. Altered.

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discodanman45 · 01-01-2024, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rnocards

Under magnification, it would show two different blue color pens, if someone else did it, right? If it was her re-tracing, then it wouldn't show a difference.

So, it's Altered, because under Mag, another pen layer is showing on top of the original pen.

I'm just guessing.

The signing pens used are well known and it wouldn't be that hard to match up the colors.

The problem here is there is no way to know if it was the signer or someone after the fact did this. It is not her typical signature and the line flowed backwards to fix it. CGC has no other option here than saying it is retraced. It is pretty clear cut in this case. Authentic Altered is the only grade you could give it.

PLB9eight · 01-01-2024, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by discodanman45

The signing pens used are well known and it wouldn't be that hard to match up the colors.

The problem here is there is no way to know if it was the signer or someone after the fact did this. It is not her typical signature and the line flowed backwards to fix it. CGC has no other option here than saying it is retraced. It is pretty clear cut in this case. Authentic Altered is the only grade you could give it.

Absolutely the correct call on the grade.

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towerymt · 01-01-2024, 08:27 PM

Many other examples of this /99 card imaged for review, none appear to have tracing despite streaky autos, except the one holdered AA.

I couldnt locate a "before" image of this one, unfortunately.

dictoresno · 01-07-2024, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by towerymt

Many other examples of this /99 card imaged for review, none appear to have tracing despite streaky autos, except the one holdered AA.

I couldnt locate a "before" image of this one, unfortunately.

looking at other examples, it seems like she signs a very quick stroke off the "A" in Amanda, to where it fades the ink. on the OP's example, there is an obvious pressure point dot of ink, indicating someone wrote and stopped. my guess is that was likely touched up too.

12-27-2023, 07:50 PM	#1
dannyw824 Member Join Date: Oct 2023 Posts: 9	Can anyone tell why this card has been marked as altered? Just wondering what has been altered on this card Sent from my 2201116SG using Tapatalk

12-27-2023, 08:33 PM	#3
discodanman45 Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: CA Posts: 9,787 danch27	I doubt the card is trimmed or doesn't meet minimum size. Cards that fit CGC holders exactly like this are exactly standard sized. The 4 corners each having issues is another sign it is most likely trimmed. Something strange is up with the auto. It almost looks like someone tried to trace back over the "S" on the bottom. CGC has also been catching cards that have substances on them. With products like Kurts Card Care, there are many reasons for the authentic altered designation. Did you submit the card? If you did, CGC will give notes why it was altered. The due the same thing as Beckett with a sticky note telling you why. If this is not your submission, the original person that submitted the card should know. __________________ Always looking for rarer Rik Smits cards and cards from the 2014-15 Spectra Global Icons set. Send me a message!

12-30-2023, 12:18 PM	#9
discodanman45 Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: CA Posts: 9,787 danch27	How hard is it for these companies to put a note online with the cert number? We shouldn't have to be the one's acting as a detective. Please don't try to fix your cards people. A bad auto is better than this monstrosity. I like CGC, but they need to do better like all grading companies. __________________ Always looking for rarer Rik Smits cards and cards from the 2014-15 Spectra Global Icons set. Send me a message!

12-27-2023, 08:04 PM	#2
mjohnatgt Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Niceville, FL Posts: 14,676 mjohnatgt mjohnatgt	We won't be able to tell you. The black may have been retouched with marker. Part of the signature may have been removed. It may have been trimmed or doesn't measure full size. Look at the card under a bright light or black light to see if you can spot discoloration.

12-30-2023, 12:10 AM	#6
SLGSports Member Join Date: Mar 2023 Posts: 140	What if the signer did the fix because she noticed it was a bad auto. Wouldn't that be an authentic card with an authentic auto?

12-30-2023, 11:02 AM	#8
dannyw824 Member Join Date: Oct 2023 Posts: 9	Comc refunded me for this and the reason for the altered grade was the retraced autograph Sent from my 2201116SG using Tapatalk

12-30-2023, 11:45 PM	#12
towerymt Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: VA Posts: 8,797	No chance the signer went back over that.

01-01-2024, 04:31 AM	#15
rnocards Member Join Date: Sep 2023 Posts: 542	Under magnification, it would show two different blue color pens, if someone else did it, right? If it was her re-tracing, then it wouldn't show a difference. So, it's Altered, because under Mag, another pen layer is showing on top of the original pen. I'm just guessing.

01-01-2024, 08:27 PM	#19
towerymt Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: VA Posts: 8,797	Many other examples of this /99 card imaged for review, none appear to have tracing despite streaky autos, except the one holdered AA. I couldnt locate a "before" image of this one, unfortunately.