Does technology help our hobby? Does it even matter to you?

[auburn35]

Originally Posted by mattglet

Thanks!

My concern about the negative impacts is that manufacturers and TPGs (basically Fanatics and PSA, at this point) are going to be reactionary and maybe they sit on their thumbs too long and we get to a point where it's gone too far.

We've always seen the forging waves, and they probably won't go away anytime soon. We've seen the alteration waves, and they probably still exist. The counterfeiting scares me, especially if we don't improve the physical card manufacturing process. It's already been stated in this thread how we've actually taken a step back in that regard.

Speaking to this, Nat (Collectors/PSA) recently disclosed that the genamint technology (card fingerprinting) acquired a couple years ago, still isn't in use and serial numbered cards are only manually recorded/tracked. Just this week we witnessed SGC failing to use technology (google search and/or internal notes) regarding a well known and altered Lebron Exquisite RPA.

Like the manufacturing concerns, the utilization/control of the technology is obviously going to be key. For example, right middle of the run on price/data tracking advances, we had worthpoint, PWCC, eBay...purge years of sales info and photos.

[mattglet]

Seriously? Genamint isn't being used yet? What are they waiting for?

This is exactly my point about sitting on thumbs.

[hermanotarjeta]

Third party grading companies do not want perfect card manufacturing technologies, it would kill their new card grading market.

What props up the grading companies is the imperfect process of making cards.

[mattglet]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Third party grading companies do not want perfect card manufacturing technologies, it would kill their new card grading market.

Why would Fanatics care what PSA wants?

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by mattglet

Why would Fanatics care what PSA wants?

It’s not just psa, it’s hobbyists who rely on grading to make money.

If every new card produced was a gem mint ten, there would no longer be a grade premium to new graded card values, and prices would crumble to your general card raw price.

[auburn35]

Originally Posted by mattglet

Seriously? Genamint isn't being used yet? What are they waiting for?

This is exactly my point about sitting on thumbs.

I have ideas but supposedly it's still in R&D. Oddly enough, PSA just implemented AI counterfeit detection, which is allegedly based on the genamint tech, so at least some features are being utilized.

[mattglet]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

It’s not just psa, it’s hobbyists who rely on grading to make money.

If every new card produced was a gem mint ten, there would no longer be a grade premium to new graded card values, and prices would crumble to your general card raw price.

[discodanman45]

Grading is out of control and we care way too much about condition of ultra-modern cards and pay way too big of a premium for an opinion or an algorithm based on an opinion.

I do grade cards, but I do it for PC purposes or to grade cards from the 80's and prior which condition can be validated and not a 9/10 coin flip. My raw collection keeps on growing and my grading piles keep on shrinking.

The only thing that bothers me with grading now is what is graded the most. $1 raw cards that people send to grade to only make money with a 10. You can't blame the flippers for this, since these cards make money. It makes me sick though since these 10's are mainly used for things like mystery packs to rip off people multiple times. People enjoy this, so more power to them. I just ignore this nonsense now and don't let it bother me.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by mattglet

LOL, I don’t collect or deal with graded cards in general, so it doesn’t bother me personally. I actually prefer they just do that.

Many a investor grader flipper boi may not be so happy though.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by mattglet

Seriously? Genamint isn't being used yet? What are they waiting for?

This is exactly my point about sitting on thumbs.

It takes a lot more time/effort/money to integrate a new technology into an existing process than most people realize.

And without a guarantee of increased profits, why would PSA take the financial risk?

[dashcol]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

Seems like you like the authentication aspect of grading most and not the grades, I am the same way.

Absolutely! If only there was a way to just have them graded authentic. If they are though, people assume they are altered. In todays grading that would be true, but it would be nice to have them have a way to grade the card authentic, but not mean altered.

Originally Posted by rfgilles

There is no TAG 9.5.

I'm not sure how the emphasis is on the grade any more so than with PSA.

My apologies, I’m not very up on TAG grading break down. So then the difference between 9 and 10.

The biggest difference for me is PSA is still somewhat subjective. With TAG there would be no arguing the grade as the computer said what it was. Can’t argue with that.

Would the average person be able to see the difference between a TAG 10 and a TAG 9 just with their eyes?

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by dashcol

Absolutely! If only there was a way to just have them graded authentic. If they are though, people assume they are altered. In todays grading that would be true, but it would be nice to have them have a way to grade the card authentic, but not mean altered.

The grading lobby normally says that in their never-ending quest to promote grading. The reply to this is to simply say a great percentage of graded cards are also altered to begin with, so it makes no difference.

I believe at least some labels do read “authentic - altered” if the card were indeed altered.

[hermanotarjeta]

If you assume all cards are altered, then you don’t have any need for grading companies, unless you care of course about how altered a card is.

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by dashcol

Absolutely! If only there was a way to just have them graded authentic. If they are though, people assume they are altered. In todays grading that would be true, but it would be nice to have them have a way to grade the card authentic, but not mean altered.



My apologies, I’m not very up on TAG grading break down. So then the difference between 9 and 10.

The biggest difference for me is PSA is still somewhat subjective. With TAG there would be no arguing the grade as the computer said what it was. Can’t argue with that.

Would the average person be able to see the difference between a TAG 10 and a TAG 9 just with their eyes?

I would say most people who submit card can tell the difference between a 10 and 9 in most cases. Same for TAG, which uses similar criteria for a 9 vs a 10 as the other companies. The distribution of grades is also similar to the other grading companies.

[dashcol]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

I would say most people who submit card can tell the difference between a 10 and 9 in most cases. Same for TAG, which uses similar criteria for a 9 vs a 10 as the other companies. The distribution of grades is also similar to the other grading companies.

Well, alright then. I guess most are better than me.

[mattglet]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

If you assume all cards are altered, then you don’t have any need for grading companies, unless you care of course about how altered a card is.

That's a sad way to have to view the world, but what's even more sad is that it's warranted.

This is why I truly hope technology can help us. I don't know how it can but I hope people much smarter than I am do figure it out.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by mattglet

That's a sad way to have to view the world, but what's even more sad is that it's warranted.

This is why I truly hope technology can help us. I don't know how it can but I hope people much smarter than I am do figure it out.

It’s actually a wonderful way to approach collecting. It helps to keep prices in perspective and allows you to stretch your hobby dollar further.

I also avoid the grading game by primarily collecting what I pull myself out of sealed boxes - that way I know the cards have not been in the hands of anyone who could alter the cards from their original pack pulled form.

I don’t need advanced technology to be involved in how I want to hobby, and I’m completely satisfied with my experience.

I mean, we are talking about cardboard here - who cares about technology?

Technology may help the BUSINESS of our hobby, but my hobby has nothing to do with business.