TJ Watch… Spencer Strider on the clock

[Rabs]

Originally Posted by Mephisto

MRI revealed damage to the UCL…


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I'm devastated as a big Braves fan and Strider collector. RIP.

I never even saw that Bieber was having issues. Dude was lights out his first two starts.

[Lonewolf]

This elbow crap is contagious...I swear Strider is like the fifth pitcher this week I've read about having significant elbow damage. That blows.

[Triple B]

That sucks. Hopefully he comes back better than before, which is a scary thought.

Anyone with any hopes of becoming an MLB pitcher almost needs to have elective surgery done beforehand.

[Mephisto]

A little before the MRI results were announced for Strider the Yankees Loaisiga was officially announced to have a UCL tear and will be having repair surgery.


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[JRX]

Do the owners somewhat like this? I can see them using all the injuries as justification to not give out long term deals to pitchers and treat it like how the nfl treats rbs. Just bring up the next guy that throws 100 until he blows out his arm etc.

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[regularp]

This isn't hard to figure out. They're having these guys throw max effort on every pitch and the human body cannot handle that. Instead of teaching these guys how to pitch, you know, change locations and mix up speeds, they just have these guys throw until their arms fall off and replace them with someone else disposable to do the same.

I don't know how the players union hasn't addressed this yet. This is not sustainable.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by regularp

This isn't hard to figure out. They're having these guys throw max effort on every pitch and the human body cannot handle that. Instead of teaching these guys how to pitch, you know, change locations and mix up speeds, they just have these guys throw until their arms fall off and replace them with someone else disposable to do the same.

I don't know how the players union hasn't addressed this yet. This is not sustainable.

But it makes sense from an analytics standpoint. The hardest thing to hit is a 100mph+ fastball. They're never going to not pursue that

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[christhecpa]

I luckily have zero shares of him in my NFBC fantasy leagues....in two of them he ended up going top 3. Never take a pitcher that early....for this reason.

[StateEx]

Originally Posted by regularp

This isn't hard to figure out. They're having these guys throw max effort on every pitch and the human body cannot handle that. Instead of teaching these guys how to pitch, you know, change locations and mix up speeds, they just have these guys throw until their arms fall off and replace them with someone else disposable to do the same.

I don't know how the players union hasn't addressed this yet. This is not sustainable.

It's the same problem running backs have in the NFL. The longevity isn't there.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by regularp

This isn't hard to figure out. They're having these guys throw max effort on every pitch and the human body cannot handle that. Instead of teaching these guys how to pitch, you know, change locations and mix up speeds, they just have these guys throw until their arms fall off and replace them with someone else disposable to do the same.

I don't know how the players union hasn't addressed this yet. This is not sustainable.

What? The pitchers are doing the throwing. They throw as hard as they can willingly. The player's association isn't going to step in and try to tell pitchers to pitch worse than they are capable, nor will they try to get the owners to force the pitchers throw softer. The idea that it's the teams "having these guys throw max effort on every pitch" is just wrong. If anything the teams are having the pitchers throw less now because pitchers are throwing too hard. The pitchers CHOOSE to throw that hard because it's the best way to get hitters out.

[Seitas]

It’s sustainable if you run through SP like the NFL does RBs. It’s sustainable if you use an unconventional approach to a pitching rotation/pitcher utilization. As long as these guys max out velocity there are going to be arm problems. Smart teams will build their pitching depth accordingly, and likely avoid large, long term contracts. You’ll see teams move to deeper rotations, more openers/bullpen games…you already are/have seen this. It will continue. I think this last off season showed us how uncomfortable teams are handing out long term contracts to pitchers who are not clearly elite. Even with two CY awards snell couldn’t get what he wanted. Pitchers values and earning potential has taken a hit. You will still have outliers that demand long term contracts but those guys are becoming fewer and fewer. There’s not a single pitcher in MLB I’d bet to be healthy for 5 consecutive years. I don’t know that I’d even make a 3 year bet.

[VinnyH]

Originally Posted by Hollywood42

MLB needs to do something about this. I don't know what, and it's a million dollar question, but there are too many high profile pitchers getting hurt too regularly if not at an increasing rate to sit back and watch it happen. It's a complex problem and not something easily fixed for many reasons, so not pretending there is an easy answer here or something that will be popular. Don't care to ramble on too long here thinking about what got us here, but MLB is going to have to face the problem eventually

I do think official scorers should be allowed to give a 4 inning starter the win if he does the best of all pitchers in a game.
The injury uptick is basically from teams wanting high 90s pitches from everyone. Use them up, throw them away, get new ones. Most staffs don’t stay the same for more than a couple of years nowadays.
Vinny
PS: I see others saying similar things…

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by regularp

This isn't hard to figure out. They're having these guys throw max effort on every pitch and the human body cannot handle that. Instead of teaching these guys how to pitch, you know, change locations and mix up speeds, they just have these guys throw until their arms fall off and replace them with someone else disposable to do the same.

I don't know how the players union hasn't addressed this yet. This is not sustainable.

Like do you honestly thing mlb pitchers aren’t “taught how to pitch”. That they don’t change locations and mix up speeds? They do. There just work between 87 and 100 beucsse if they are 82-94 it ends up in the bleachers.

[anusinha]

All these pitchers having elbow problems and none of them are on the Angels, weird.

[coachnip13]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

Like do you honestly thing mlb pitchers aren’t “taught how to pitch”. That they don’t change locations and mix up speeds? They do. There just work between 87 and 100 beucsse if they are 82-94 it ends up in the bleachers.

These numbers aren't adding up.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by Triple B

That sucks. Hopefully he comes back better than before, which is a scary thought.

Anyone with any hopes of becoming an MLB pitcher almost needs to have elective surgery done beforehand.

This would be Strider's second TJ surgery.

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by coachnip13

These numbers aren't adding up.

Everything you have ever said about pitching is wrong, so that’s not surprising.

[coachnip13]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

Everything you have ever said about pitching is wrong, so that’s not surprising.

Look at them again.

[regularp]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

Like do you honestly thing mlb pitchers aren’t “taught how to pitch”. That they don’t change locations and mix up speeds? They do. There just work between 87 and 100 beucsse if they are 82-94 it ends up in the bleachers.

Sonny Gray was third in ERA last season. His average fastball was 93-94.

Justin Steele was sixth and around 92.

Jordan Montgomery was eighth and his FB was 88-92.

Logan Webb was tenth and around 92.

I can keep going down the list of guys who pitched well and threw a lot of innings who didn't throw high 90s.

[coachnip13]

Originally Posted by regularp

Sonny Gray was third in ERA last season. His average fastball was 93-94.

Justin Steele was sixth and around 92.

Jordan Montgomery was eighth and his FB was 88-92.

Logan Webb was tenth and around 92.

I can keep going down the list of guys who pitched well and threw a lot of innings who didn't throw high 90s.

This is true, and verifiable, of course.

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by regularp

Sonny Gray was third in ERA last season. His average fastball was 93-94.

Justin Steele was sixth and around 92.

Jordan Montgomery was eighth and his FB was 88-92.

Logan Webb was tenth and around 92.

I can keep going down the list of guys who pitched well and threw a lot of innings who didn't throw high 90s.

You need to examine the total population of people that can throw 93 (which still means he can like touch 96 which is fast) and the total population of people that can throw 100 then compare results.

For example let’s group younger pitchers and future aces into categories: I’ll take the guys that hit 100 group: Ragans, Jones, Skenes, Buns, Miller, Grayson, Crochet, Miller, Hicks (he’s like 27 but first tjme starting), Gore, Belllo, luzardo; Meyer….

You cna have good young guys that throw < 95: Bibbe who averaged 94.9 last year

[rms13]

Originally Posted by regularp

This isn't hard to figure out. They're having these guys throw max effort on every pitch and the human body cannot handle that. Instead of teaching these guys how to pitch, you know, change locations and mix up speeds, they just have these guys throw until their arms fall off and replace them with someone else disposable to do the same.

I don't know how the players union hasn't addressed this yet. This is not sustainable.

I think it's more likely the rise of the sweeper and the overall amount of hard breaking balls guys are throwing now. I'm a Red Sox fan and basically the entire staff this season has been throwing sweeper and other sliders 60-70% of the time and very few four seam fastball. There is also the Nolan Ryan argument that when everyone threw 250-300 innings per season there were much fewer arm injuries. But guys then were also throwing a much higher percentage of fastballs.

[regularp]

Originally Posted by rms13

I think it's more likely the rise of the sweeper and the overall amount of hard breaking balls guys are throwing now. I'm a Red Sox fan and basically the entire staff this season has been throwing sweeper and other sliders 60-70% of the time and very few four seam fastball. There is also the Nolan Ryan argument that when everyone threw 250-300 innings per season there were much fewer arm injuries. But guys then were also throwing a much higher percentage of fastballs.

Yeah, it's the stress of hard breaking balls more than anything. There's nothing wrong with sliders in the low-80s but teams want them in the 90s.

[Scottish Punk]

Is the high slider usage based on analytics and emphasis on spin rate? Pitchers have spin rate and velocity, arm speed with detailed pitch trackers now. Data on how batting average, hard hit rate correlates to an increase in spin rate.

[regularp]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

You need to examine the total population of people that can throw 93 (which still means he can like touch 96 which is fast) and the total population of people that can throw 100 then compare results.

For example let’s group younger pitchers and future aces into categories: I’ll take the guys that hit 100 group: Ragans, Jones, Skenes, Buns, Miller, Grayson, Crochet, Miller, Hicks (he’s like 27 but first tjme starting), Gore, Belllo, luzardo; Meyer….

You cna have good young guys that throw < 95: Bibbe who averaged 94.9 last year

Who cares if someone can touch 100 if they're injured every other year and max out at 150-160 innings?

There's certain guys like Verlander, Scherzer and Cole who are built to withstand the punishment and have rubber arms. Those three also know how to pitch and dial it up/back when needed.

Usually, they end up like deGrom: dominant when healthy but consistently having arms problems.

Let me know when your group holds up for five consecutive seasons.