Does anyone disagree that Lawrence Taylor is the GOAT defensive player?

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by ReggieBush22

1986 you mean right?

The season he became the only linebacker in HISTORY to win the regular season MVP? Let that ponder for a second, a LB winning league MVP! He was THAT dominant. The Giants also won the SB that year.

Alan Page DT in 1971 and Mark Mosely a Kicker have won MVP’s. If I had to choose a defensive player and keep that player throughout their career, it wouldn’t be Taylor in the top 3.

LT had the best high end talent with many fewer season as a top defender. I would choose 1. B. Smith, and flip a coin with R. White on one side & A. Donaldson on the other. If we were to be in the 90’s or earlier, Alan Page & Ray Lewis. All 5 had longer high end careers.

[starfox]

I wouldn't say LT is the GOAT defender by a wide margin at all. Maybe some of you never heard of Reggie White. White was just as good as LT, except he never won a MVP.
But this is what you should factor in when it comes to White: he spent two years in the USFL. That's two prime years White could have been adding to his stats, NFL game film, and overall legacy. LT was undoubtedly a great player, but Reggie White was a bigger player with much more power and almost as much speed as LT. I'm ok with LT being called the GOAT defender, but White is very close to it.

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[Siberian13]

Originally Posted by starfox

I wouldn't say LT is the GOAT defender by a wide margin at all. Maybe some of you never heard of Reggie White. White was just as good as LT, except he never won a MVP.
But this is what you should factor in when it comes to White: he spent two years in the USFL. That's two prime years White could have been adding to his stats, NFL game film, and overall legacy. LT was undoubtedly a great player, but Reggie White was a bigger player with much more power and almost as much speed as LT. I'm ok with LT being called the GOAT defender, but White is very close to it.

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I have them 1A and 1B. I always preferred Reggie White over LT. Both are amazing. Wish Aaron Donald could have played longer. He did it in an era where everything caters to the offense and protecting qbs.

[starfox]

Originally Posted by Siberian13

I have them 1A and 1B. I always preferred Reggie White over LT. Both are amazing. Wish Aaron Donald could have played longer. He did it in an era where everything caters to the offense and protecting qbs.

Yes. White would be my pick also. White is close, maybe even tied with LT. But LT has that MVP. Donald is my favorite front seven player ever.

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[ReggieBush22]

Originally Posted by starfox

Allan Paige won MVP in the 70s.

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I said LB. Paige was a DE/DT.

[ReggieBush22]

I'm also with most of you guys in that LT and White are almost in their own class. And i also have no problem anyone taking White over LT. He was THAT dominant too. But that's honestly the only guy i can accept over LT.

[Archangel1775]

In before some crazy guy says that LT and Reggie White are benchwarmers in "today's game".

[starfox]

Originally Posted by ReggieBush22

I said LB. Paige was a DE/DT.

You never did. Look at the first post. It's by you. You said: defender. So Allan Paige indeed counts.

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[asujbl]

Originally Posted by asujbl

He is the best defensive player ever

Not by a good margin

This guys is smart. Has been for years

[rms13]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

In before some crazy guy says that LT and Reggie White are benchwarmers in "today's game".

Times change. Maybe that’s true. But I do think there are lots of modern guys who are freak athletes at that position who could have done what LT did if they were playing in the 80s with those rules and the style of play.

[Retired hobbist]

Originally Posted by ReggieBush22

This guy was DIFFERENT. His instant acceleration/burst off the line is still something no one has ever duplicated. And his competitive nature. Sheesh!

https://youtu.be/oWB9ia_ZPjk

Derrick Thomas had similar sack abilities but what made LT in the argument for the defensive GOAT was his ability against the run. Thomas was sack happy similar to home run hitters that never shorten up their swing with 2 strikes in the count while LT was a home run hitter who could put the ball in play with 2 strikes.

[starfox]

Originally Posted by rms13

Times change. Maybe that’s true. But I do think there are lots of modern guys who are freak athletes at that position who could have done what LT did if they were playing in the 80s with those rules and the style of play.

Maybe, but today's players just don't seem to be as durable as players from 25 or so years ago. Durability is a huge factor here. Sure: guys today are faster and more athletic, but could they perform at a high level for 8, 9, or more years like LT, White, Bruce Smith, Ray Lewis and others of yesteryears? Too bad we'll never know. I'm a defensive guy. While I love White, Deion, Lewis, Woodson, Heisman Woodson, Sapp, Brooks, Seau, and Manley, I also love the newer guys. I think Donald, Fred Warner, Myles Garrett, and Chris Jones could play in any era. Last year was the first time in years where offenses didn't go crazy on the regular; despite the rules in favor of the offense, defenses are quickly catching up. I love it.

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[starfox]

Originally Posted by Retired hobbist

Derrick Thomas had similar sack abilities but what made LT in the argument for the defensive GOAT was his ability against the run. Thomas was sack happy similar to home run hitters that never shorten up their swing with 2 strikes in the count while LT was a home run hitter who could put the ball in play with 2 strikes.

Yes. There were definitely other pass rushers that had that burst off the line like LT. Guys like White, Smith, Simeon Rice, and Freeney.

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[jason825]

anyone who disagrees is full of s*!

[tjforce]

LT might have had the greatest peak, but longevity wise, I put Reggie White over him.

What I find more staggering than his 198 career sacks is the fact that he had over 100 tackles 4 seasons, including 133 in 1987 (to go along with 18 sacks). To put that in perspective, Aaron Donald's career high was 84, JJ Watt 81, Bruce Smith 108, TJ Watt 68

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by tjforce

LT might have had the greatest peak, but longevity wise, I put Reggie White over him.

What I find more staggering than his 198 career sacks is the fact that he had over 100 tackles 4 seasons, including 133 in 1987 (to go along with 18 sacks). To put that in perspective, Aaron Donald's career high was 84, JJ Watt 81, Bruce Smith 108, TJ Watt 68

That is why I would go with Bruce Smith because his high level lasted much longer than LT.

[trixstar]

I think you can make an argument for Reggie White but yea LT completely changed the game.

[rms13]

Originally Posted by ReggieBush22

You can't be the GOAT defender if you are so flawed at a basic fundamental (tackling). Now most athletic player ever or GOAT cover corner ever, you have an argument. But GOAT? Hell no. He hated physicality and the GOAT defender has to embrace it.

Exactly. He couldn't tackle at all so no way he's the GOAT defensive player. But maybe GOAT CB. He's the first the guy I remember where teams wouldn't throw the ball in his direction.

[abovethesink]

On the defense side of things, I think it is more useful to create a pantheon or Mt Rushmore kind of list of the highest level greats. It is much more eye test oriented than judging the offensive side of the ball overall. I don't think you can come up with a single GOAT and defend it the same way you can with like Brady or Rice on the other side of the line of scrimmage.

[Stifle]

Some team’s media guides tracked Tackles For Losses though the NFL didn’t officially track till roughly 3 decades ago. I believe Alan Page would have been huge on this stat but to see where LT, Reggie & Bruce had for numbers could sway my vote. After all, a 3 yard sack is equal to a 3 yard tackle for a loss. TFL’s are not included into sack totals but before it was a official stat, teams that tracked them may have combined the total ?

A. Donald was a beast for TFL’s.

[mjekase]

I know he's not the record-holder, but Reggie's '87 season is still the most impressive for sacks in my opinion. Good bet he gets 2 or 3 more if they played the other 4 games.

[JWBlue]

I watched a lot of games in his era. Yes he unquestionably is the goat defensive player.

This coming from an Eagles fan back in the day who loved R. White. He literally used to pick up lineman and throw them 3 feet away from him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKi7UAG_0rQ


Still LT though.

[starfox]

Originally Posted by JWBlue

I watched a lot of games in his era. Yes he unquestionably is the goat defensive player.

This coming from an Eagles fan back in the day who loved R. White. He literally used to pick up lineman and throw them 3 feet away from him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKi7UAG_0rQ


Still LT though.

Only because of that 86 MVP and the fact that White started out in the USFL his first two years. One more thing: yall forget about Ray Lewis. Modern day player that wasn't having crap from opposing offenses.

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[Siberian13]

Originally Posted by starfox

Only because of that 86 MVP and the fact that White started out in the USFL his first two years. One more thing: yall forget about Ray Lewis. Modern day player that wasn't having crap from opposing offenses.

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Ray Lewis had that killer instinct. Deadly

[starfox]

Originally Posted by Siberian13

Ray Lewis had that killer instinct. Deadly

Lewis was guilty of obstruction, not murder. But he definitely knows how things went down.

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