Read today that Negro League will be merged with MLB stats….

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by JRX

Not sure about the second half of your statement, but I guess what bothers me is it does pretend that these guys played together. They didn't, and there's no way to go back in time and change it. They weren't the same league, they have their own records and records in one don't make them records in the other. I would have no issue if they wanted to put an * next to every record that predates integration.

A voice of reason emerges - thank you JRX

[jplarson]

Originally Posted by rms13

What you don't do is re-write history and pretend these guys all played in the MLB. If you do that then younger generations are never going to know the Negro League existed or why it existed and eventually you repeat history.

Originally Posted by cardsin47

Yes - exactly - at least I’m not on this boat alone / have someone to help me row!

In 1969 MLB's Special Committee on Baseball Records rewrote history and included the American Association (1882-91), Union Association (1884), Players’ League (1890) and Federal League (1914-15).

[mjekase]

Originally Posted by rms13

What you don't do is re-write history and pretend these guys all played in the MLB. If you do that then younger generations are never going to know the Negro League existed or why it existed and eventually you repeat history.

How do younger generations know the Negro Leagues existed today, exactly?

And I don't think this change "pretends" these guys played in the MLB. There's a lot of grey area to debate, but this just makes the records about the highest levels of baseball in the U.S.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

I'm confused -- you're saying the Negro Leagues were included as part of MLB's official record book because they were deemed equivalent? Does that mean any historically equivalent league can qualify for the same recognition? I don't see MLB incorporating stats from the Mexican or Japanese Leagues, for example. I consider this appropriation. The Negro League owners didn't have a choice in the matter -- MLB unilaterally decided to absorb their stats.

The Negro Leagues was forced out of business by the actions of MLB owners. MLB teams took the Negro Leagues' best players, and with it, their fans. It was an intentional strategy. The Negro League owners were at an economic and social disadvantage to MLB owners -- it wasn't fair competition due to segregation and racism.

Sorry that you're confused. It's not a difficult concept. Yes, the MLB deemed they were equivalent. They did this 50+ years ago when they inducted Satchell Paige into the Hall of Fame. They would have probably included the statistical record in 1969 if there were enough records available. They will not incorporate the Mexican or Japanese leagues because, historically, they are not a Major League. And while, the Japanese League today is certainly closer to the Major Leagues, historically it is not. Additionally, the Japanese ball players have an opportunity to join the MLB. Aside from a couple of exceptions (The Players League, for example) the other Major Leagues did not.

It would surprise me if we eventually get to the point where the Japanese Leagues are included but I would expect there would be a cutoff similar to what they did with the Negro Leagues.

There was no agenda to force the Negro Leagues out of business. Even once Jackie joined the MLB, baseball was extremely slow to integrate. It took decades before baseball became fully integrated. It took 12 years before every team even had at least one black player. If they had intended to put the Negro Leagues out of business, they would have opened the flood gates. If you want to see what it looked like for the MLB to force a competing league out of business, check out the Federal League. The MLB literally forced them out of business whereas the Negro Leagues continued to operate for another decade post-integration.

[asujbl]

I want some more stupid ass Larry Bird posts as if 1979 was the same…

How do I get that?

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by rms13

What you don't do is re-write history and pretend these guys all played in the MLB. If you do that then younger generations are never going to know the Negro League existed or why it existed and eventually you repeat history.

That's like saying no one will know California existed before 1850 because we made it a state.

History isn't being re-written and no one is pretending these guys played in the MLB. They are saying these guys played baseball against a similar level of competition. Which they already acknowledged when they began inducting them into the Hall of Fame.

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by mjekase

And I don't think this change "pretends" these guys played in the MLB.

That’s EXACTLY what it does, and is the main issue ( at least my main issue )

Example - hand someone who knows nothing about Major League Baseball your phone, and assuming records are now merged, ask them who has the all/time highest career MLB batting average, and it should now say Josh Gibson.

The thing is, Gibson never played for MLB. Don’t you see how that’s a problem / a made up fantasy presented as a fact?

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by cardsin47

Ha! A view shared by many fewer people than you think! Perhaps there’s a clinic in your are that offers reasonably priced psychiatric help!

Cool beans

Keep on being awful

[boxbuster7]

here for the ultimate blowout heavyweight showdown - asujbl vs. cardsin47

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by cardsin47

That’s EXACTLY what it does, and is the main issue ( at least my main issue )

Example - hand someone who knows nothing about Major League Baseball your phone, and assuming records are now merged, ask them who has the all/time highest career MLB batting average, and it should now say Josh Gibson.

The thing is, Gibson never played for MLB. Don’t you see how that’s a problem / a made up fantasy presented as a fact?

I have no issue with his never having played in the MLB. We've had other leagues merged with the record for over half a century. But what I will grant you, and I think the MLB should consider, is as great as Gibson was, his record is incomplete and what we have is 2,168 ABs. That is simply not enough ABs to qualify as the All-Time AVG leader. We know he played in more than just 602 games, but that's all the data that we have.

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by boxbuster7

here for the ultimate blowout heavyweight showdown - asujbl vs. cardsin47

He tries so hard…

I feel bad

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by asujbl

Keep on being awful

If you own a mirror, look at it and read this ^ out loud - I think you’ll see the problem with getting along with other people ….

[boxbuster7]

paging ninjacookies...

[marl1220]

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by marl1220

I sure can, and prefer to! Flip side of that is, I don’t take crap from anyone - whether they’re in my face or typing cowardly and ‘safe’ on a Message Board

[mjekase]

Originally Posted by cardsin47

That’s EXACTLY what it does, and is the main issue ( at least my main issue )

Example - hand someone who knows nothing about Major League Baseball your phone, and assuming records are now merged, ask them who has the all/time highest career MLB batting average, and it should now say Josh Gibson.

It does not. It says they played Major League baseball. "MLB" - the precious, apparently sacred organization - classified the Negro Leagues as "Major League" 4 years ago, and they were referred to as "Major" before. If you're worried about people who know nothing about baseball considering the Negro Leagues "Major League", then educate them and tell them they were.

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

Here's the wikipedia page for the House of David baseball team. At one point even Satchel Paige was pitching for them (a few women also played for them).

There have been a dozen pieces written on the team and apparently they were pretty good for a barnstorming team.

That was an interesting read.

[discostu]

The possum-like, delayed outrage of some seems like they care a lot about something they haven't been paying attention to.

(Queue the "Dumb and Dumber" "We landed on the moon!" GIF.)

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

That was an interesting read.

Yes it was …. TheFrenzy seems like a pretty cool dude. Did you ever notice that most of the very high posting number Boardies are pretty cool and tolerant of other’s ignorance? I have, and appreciate it ( that includes you too, fulltritty )

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by cardsin47

Yes it was …. TheFrenzy seems like a pretty cool dude. Did you ever notice that most of the very high posting number Boardies are pretty cool and tolerant of other’s ignorance? I have, and appreciate it

Frenzy is a cool dude.

I actually thought he was just throwing religious cults out there to be funny, but should have known better since he teaches this stuff at a university.

[bub838]

Originally Posted by cardsin47

That’s EXACTLY what it does, and is the main issue ( at least my main issue )

Example - hand someone who knows nothing about Major League Baseball your phone, and assuming records are now merged, ask them who has the all/time highest career MLB batting average, and it should now say Josh Gibson.

The thing is, Gibson never played for MLB. Don’t you see how that’s a problem / a made up fantasy presented as a fact?

Or take it as an opportunity to have a dialogue about baseballs history and learn something beyond the surface level.

[Siberian13]

Originally Posted by asujbl

He tries so hard…

I feel bad

Pretty sure you’re Woodley

[boxbuster7]

good thing cardsin47 has his identity hidden from all the haters

[cardsin47]

What’s kinda’ funny is, several of you have made me the bad guy in this Thread….. do you realize how absurd that is? This whole mess is because the White MLB power players before 1947 wouldn’t let African Americans play in their League. I wish this whole thing never happened, and MLB was color blind from day one!

[49ersSF]

I wonder how long Cardsin47's posts will last before he edits out every single one of his comments in this thread like he always does.