Ebay Sales Down

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by jkampis

Yes, that was kind of my point: 15 cards to one buyer for $25 is definitely worth it. I just question the 99-cent business model, unless that can lead to a lot of bulk sales. Otherwise it’s a lot of volume and work for minimal revenue.

I agree with that question, even in volume. I don't list anything below $1.99. You can sell a fraction of the amount at $1.99 vs $.99 and still come out way ahead. The math isn't as simple as it seems, it isn't twice the profit at twice the price due to the percentage of the price that goes to fees and shipping. I don't want to take the time to break down actual examples due to the variables involved, but I would guess that have to sell around 10 cards at $.99 to equal the profit of 1 card at $1.99 in volume.

Just one quick example to show you that I'm not crazy:

2 card order example:

2 cards at $.99 for a total order of $1.98. Total net is about $.77.
2 cards at $1.99 for a total order of $3.98. Total net is $2.55.

So in this example, you need triple the orders at the lower price point to come close to the same end result. Then you have the extra labor involved to get to the same result.

My conclusion is that you do a pile of extra work for AT BEST about equal end results.

When you factor in single card sales that result in a loss the spread can be even bigger. That is why I do not play that game.

[shrevecity]

Anyone doing 99 cents with free shipping is losing. Most here I think have said for items with free shipping is 1.49 or higher. I have started if I cannot list for 1.79 on these I will list them in 2 or 3 card lots and shoot for a 2.99 bottom price.

Now while I am still running around just shy of 400 transaction count every 3 months in my current rebuild I do list auctions starting at 1 penny with free shipping. Most of these end up selling in the 2 to 4 dollar range and are items that are from large purchased that I have really nothing in. Even the rare ones that lose are worth it because of the transaction count and the overall algorithm boost

As I said earlier the time factor is heavier for small sellers and those building because the less items you have the less likely multi item sales are made. But once you get an inventory established those sales become more common. The more organized ypu get in your process the more streamlined you get as well. With some of the programs out there listing a 100 or more an hour is not that difficult. Things you do in your listing can help greatly in your shipping speed. Custom SKU or codes in title that tell you where said item is makes a big difference

[paulcarlcards]

I used to have 100,000 active listings of 99.5% singles for $1.99 shipped. I was trying EVERYTHING to increase the frequency of multi-card orders, even Buy 1 Get 1 Free coupons, but nothing got that frequency high enough to make cheap singles scalable. Most customers only buy 1 card, even when they could get a second card for free!

In hindsight, it seems like common sense to have switched to selling those same types of cards in lots instead of singles. With lots, every order is a multi-card order and, with my custom software, the lots are faster and easier to list than singles (even with CDP or Kronocard). I do occasionally sell some singles and slabs, but my target there was a minimum asking price of $10 (now it's $20).

Here's my eBay numbers so far this month compared to last year when I was doing singles.

With singles, I picked/packed/shipped an average of 100 cards per hour and with lots it's 30 per hour (but I only ship zero to several per day, so shipping time is <5-15 minutes daily). With singles I could add hundreds to thousands of cards to my store per hour (yes, thousands is possible and I have video proof). With lots it's 99% automated with no need to correct AI mistakes so I can list a 100 card lot pretty much as quickly as the cards can scan.

The momentum is insane too. My 90 day STR has been 50%+ since the switch. Same exact types of cards, just presented and priced better to make it win-win for customers and for me. Leveraging eBay's OOS feature and restocking with exact scans is also an insane advantage that cannot be comprehended until it is experienced.

Right now, my bottleneck is pre-sorted inventory. I have a great source of virtually unlimited cards but I want to move away from the messy bulk boxes and do more of the curated player lots so that no time is wasted on bulk (that's where the lowest profit per hour is). So I have a system I've been gradually building upon that automates the majority of the sourcing process. I'm convinced that this collection of software and systems, once completed, will be the philosopher's stone that turns cardboard into gold.

[deek05]

In hindsight, it seems like common sense to have switched to selling those same types of cards in lots instead of singles. With lots, every order is a multi-card order and, with my custom software, the lots are faster and easier to list than singles (even with CDP or Kronocard). I do occasionally sell some singles and slabs, but my target there was a minimum asking price of $10 (now it's $20).

What is your minimum number of cards in a player lot? I've tried the buy 1 get 1 free on the $1 cards as well and saw the same results as you. Also tried 5 card player lots but didn't get any views. Well known young players too...thanks

[shrevecity]

Originally Posted by deek05

In hindsight, it seems like common sense to have switched to selling those same types of cards in lots instead of singles. With lots, every order is a multi-card order and, with my custom software, the lots are faster and easier to list than singles (even with CDP or Kronocard). I do occasionally sell some singles and slabs, but my target there was a minimum asking price of $10 (now it's $20).

What is your minimum number of cards in a player lot? I've tried the buy 1 get 1 free on the $1 cards as well and saw the same results as you. Also tried 5 card player lots but didn't get any views. Well known young players too...thanks

If you are relying on views to judge anything that has been screwed up since they changed how views are calculated a few years back. I have an item on auction right now that has 8 watchers 6 bids and shows 1 view. Views are not always a great thing either too many and it pulls your listing down in search.

I have success in 2 or 3 card lots of some cards that just don't reach the

[deek05]

Originally Posted by shrevecity

If you are relying on views to judge anything that has been screwed up since they changed how views are calculated a few years back. I have an item on auction right now that has 8 watchers 6 bids and shows 1 view. Views are not always a great thing either too many and it pulls your listing down in search.

I have success in 2 or 3 card lots of some cards that just don't reach the

Are you doing auctions or BIN? Mixture of both?

[shrevecity]

Originally Posted by deek05

Are you doing auctions or BIN? Mixture of both?

On the small lots fixed price.

[premium1981]

I think lots are great, but if that is your main source of sales, your ceiling is going to be much more limited. Your buyer market is much smaller, and your ability to source, sort, and keep listing new lots is also going to be more limited. I've done a few things in the past that seemed golden on the surface. But then I realized it was limited in the grand scheme of things. That limit may be inside of what you are good with making annually, but it may not be. My gross revenue every year is very high six figures. I don't think I could even sniff that number if I was doing player lots. But again, everyone is different, and goals are different. It just wouldn't be scalable enough for me.

[deek05]

Originally Posted by shrevecity

On the small lots fixed price.

thanks shreve...

[shrevecity]

another point with the time/value. Everyone views this differently since I do more than cards I devote alot of time to scouring thrift stores and garage sales some people consider that in their time for me its not I love the hunt. Not everyone considers a successful business the same either. Some consider an extra 500 a month a success others consider less than 10k a failure. Everyone has different needs wants and abilities. If you like doing lots and think its more viable then more power to you.

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by shrevecity

another point with the time/value. Everyone views this differently since I do more than cards I devote alot of time to scouring thrift stores and garage sales some people consider that in their time for me its not I love the hunt. Not everyone considers a successful business the same either. Some consider an extra 500 a month a success others consider less than 10k a failure. Everyone has different needs wants and abilities. If you like doing lots and think its more viable then more power to you.

Absolutely. I've also said many times before that if all of us was doing the same thing done of us would be as successful.

[beauspencer]

Absolutely. I've also said many times before that if all of us was doing the same thing done of us would be as successful.

100%.

I do 99 cent free shipping listings. I lose money if someone buys one card. That's not why I do it. I have a large amount of repeat customers that will buy multiple cards. The math works and I make money.

However, this is not the main part of my business. I don't have a "main" part of my business. Diversity is key. I sell 99 cent cards, lots, sets and partial sets, prospect autographs, the latest hot stars. I promote a card show and set up as a dealer at card shows. None of these pieces on their own could form a sustainable business with what I am working with.

That's just the business side of things. Then each person is different as mentioned by others. What's "worth your time," how much do you need to make, are you supporting a family, cost of living, etc.

[paulcarlcards]

Originally Posted by deek05

In hindsight, it seems like common sense to have switched to selling those same types of cards in lots instead of singles. With lots, every order is a multi-card order and, with my custom software, the lots are faster and easier to list than singles (even with CDP or Kronocard). I do occasionally sell some singles and slabs, but my target there was a minimum asking price of $10 (now it's $20).

What is your minimum number of cards in a player lot? I've tried the buy 1 get 1 free on the $1 cards as well and saw the same results as you. Also tried 5 card player lots but didn't get any views. Well known young players too...thanks

I've been testing a few sizes and my best sizes right now are 20 and 100 card lots. 50 card lots have done well for me too. Having the scans is a huge value add for shoppers that allows you to get a premium per card price compared to competing lot sellers.

Take my Ken Griffey Jr. lots. I sell them for $80-100 shipped for 100 cards and they move pretty quick too.

If I listed them as singles for $1.99 shipped, I have an hour into them there. Another hour to pick/pack/ship the 100 when they sell.

Listing them all as one lot takes 2 minutes and another 2 minutes to pick/pack/ship.

Assuming no coupon discounts, no multi-card orders, etc., selling all 100 Griffeys for $1.99 shipped it $199 in revenue. Let's say I have $0 into the cards because of a bulk buy or something and they all came pre-sorted. Then $0.75 in shipping/supplies. 8% promoted and 8% sales tax as a toprated seller. That's $0.54 profit per sale, $54 profit total or $27/hour in profit.

Now with my lots, I take those same 100 Griffeys and pretend I ask $100 but take an $80 offer. Let's say I have $0.20 into each card from sniping them from auctions (no sorting time required). Same 8% sales tax, 8% promoted, TRS, etc. Round shipping and supplies up to $7. That leaves me $36.36 profit per sale for 4 minutes of work (let's say 5 minutes for easier math) which is $436.32/hour profit.

To achieve the same amount of profit per hour with singles, you'd need to profit over $8 per sale on each individual card.

If all of your singles sorted themselves, scanned themselves, listed themselves, and you sold 800 singles per day and just shipped for 8 hours every day, 365 days per year, at $27/hour in profit, you're capped around $80,000/year in profit. This is why the low end volume seller mix in some raw to grade cards, or the higher end finds/buys, or just chasing the "hits" of the multicard orders.

If you take this same hypothetical scenario and pretend only 4 hours per day but that includes both listing and picking/packing/shipping, with an average profit per sale of $20 (my target minimum), the profit per year cap skyrockets to $350,000. Those extra 4 hours can be used to continue working on the business systems and sourcing in larger and larger quantities.

The real money in low end singles is when customers buy multiple cards at a time. Each listing is a lottery scratch off that you put time into hoping to win that 3 card order or that 20 card order, 40, 100, etc. I loved the rush of selling some random person a hundred singles. It's great. But you can't scale a solo-business purely on that hope. I spent a year using all of my sales, marketing (my primary business/career is in marketing), and customer service skills trying to crack the code to consistent multi-card orders. I couldn't make it work. But just switching to lots solved that problem, all I needed was a way to list them as fast as I list singles. This gave birth to my software project that actually makes listing lots FASTER than listing singles.

Multicard orders of $1.99 shipped cards can often easily dwarf that $436.22 profit per hour (and even my $240 target) but the problem is that it is too infrequent. I think that the role that those cheap cards play in a full-timers business is an insurance policy to guarantee some baseline sales and also as motivation to keep going (because those highs are HIGH). But the advantage that I have as a part-timer is that I'm not counting on cards to pay my bills--I'm growing this for fun and for maximizing profit per hour so that it can some day comfortably be my primary focus. I have the freedom and security to work ON the business (particularly maximizing profit per hour) instead of IN it trying to make sure the bills get paid. I can spend my "eBay time" coding some crazy #@#@#@#@ to test an idea, have it be a failure, and just move on without having lost a part of my livelihood because I wasn't listing. Whether it's cards or any other business, I highly recommend this sort of play and experimentation before shoving all of the chips in.

[deek05]

good stuff...problem is sourcing where I live. We have nothing. I've purchased a few collections/lots on social media and ebay. Best luck has been on Whatnot when someone is dumping their collection or downsizing.

I sell singles. Tried smaller lots (3-10) and visibility on those was awful. This is just a hobby/side gig for some fun $$.

[rwperu34]

Originally Posted by premium1981

For a small time seller, it probably isn't "worth it". When you get tens of thousands of cards into your inventory it is absolutely worth it. For example, I mailed out a 15 card order this morning that netted me about $25. These items were from old product openings that I am way in the positive on. So every penny that comes in is profit. It took me about 4 minutes to pull and ship this order. This is an example of why its worth it. And this was a very basic and pretty much an every day type order. Usually multiple orders like this on top of everything else every single day. This is what I call the foundation to my succesful business. The rock solid foundation that always produces, even when the stock market goes down.

Originally Posted by jkampis

Yes, that was kind of my point: 15 cards to one buyer for $25 is definitely worth it. I just question the 99-cent business model, unless that can lead to a lot of bulk sales. Otherwise it’s a lot of volume and work for minimal revenue.

I have less of this and rely more on higher dollar cards, but I experience the same phenomenon as premium1981. It doesn't take many of those mult-card orders to offset the "cost" of the one's that "aren't quite worth it". If my cost basis is $0 and I already own the card, I'm looking at 10-15 listings per hour from start to finish. Even at 86¢ per (ie one card), I'm only "losing" a little.

The other factor is there are always going to be lulls. If you're using surplus time, the the time cost is zero. For example for me right now, I am not buying anything and my sales have crept to a halt. I'm probably spending less than an hour a day on the business even when at home (I'm currently on vacation #2 of 3 in a three week period). I'll take some of that time and list a bunch of $1-$2 cards that will sell in Feb/March/April, so my real time cost in only the pack/ship portion...about 2-3 minutes.

I even go a step further and will list cards at 1¢ with free shipping. Sure, sometimes a card will go for two or four bits and I'll lose a little, but there's always that one that I had listed for $2 that sells for $5 to offset it...not even to mention the times that a buyer will win a card for a quarter and then spend $25 on BIN.

[waytoomanycards]

Originally Posted by paulcarlcards

I used to have 100,000 active listings of 99.5% singles for $1.99 shipped. I was trying EVERYTHING to increase the frequency of multi-card orders, even Buy 1 Get 1 Free coupons, but nothing got that frequency high enough to make cheap singles scalable. Most customers only buy 1 card, even when they could get a second card for free!

Did you try variation listings? The large "pick em" sellers do get a high percentage of multi-card orders, though perhaps with a lower sell-through rate overall. You can tell from both their feedback received and left. (The feedback received also shows if buyers make a multi-card purchase of the same card via the price).

Here's one example but there are several of them on ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/fdbk/feedback_p...sort=RELEVANCE

On a small scale, my experience with variation listings was similar, even when I had concurrent listings from the same set. The ones listed individually were usually single card purchases and the ones that were part of a variation listing were usually multi-card purchases. The star cards listed individually sold faster, though.

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by waytoomanycards

Did you try variation listings? The large "pick em" sellers do get a high percentage of multi-card orders, though perhaps with a lower sell-through rate overall. You can tell from both their feedback received and left. (The feedback received also shows if buyers make a multi-card purchase of the same card via the price).

Here's one example but there are several of them on ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/fdbk/feedback_p...sort=RELEVANCE

On a small scale, my experience with variation listings was similar, even when I had concurrent listings from the same set. The ones listed individually were usually single card purchases and the ones that were part of a variation listing were usually multi-card purchases. The star cards listed individually sold faster, though.

Variation listings are incredible if done correctly. You are almost always going to get multi card orders. BUT if you do them wrong or not targeting the correct audience they will sit and never sell. Another one of those specialty things you learn through trial and error.

[jkampis]

Originally Posted by paulcarlcards

I've been testing a few sizes and my best sizes right now are 20 and 100 card lots. 50 card lots have done well for me too. Having the scans is a huge value add for shoppers that allows you to get a premium per card price compared to competing lot sellers.

Take my Ken Griffey Jr. lots. I sell them for $80-100 shipped for 100 cards and they move pretty quick too.

If I listed them as singles for $1.99 shipped, I have an hour into them there. Another hour to pick/pack/ship the 100 when they sell.

Listing them all as one lot takes 2 minutes and another 2 minutes to pick/pack/ship.

Assuming no coupon discounts, no multi-card orders, etc., selling all 100 Griffeys for $1.99 shipped it $199 in revenue. Let's say I have $0 into the cards because of a bulk buy or something and they all came pre-sorted. Then $0.75 in shipping/supplies. 8% promoted and 8% sales tax as a toprated seller. That's $0.54 profit per sale, $54 profit total or $27/hour in profit.

Now with my lots, I take those same 100 Griffeys and pretend I ask $100 but take an $80 offer. Let's say I have $0.20 into each card from sniping them from auctions (no sorting time required). Same 8% sales tax, 8% promoted, TRS, etc. Round shipping and supplies up to $7. That leaves me $36.36 profit per sale for 4 minutes of work (let's say 5 minutes for easier math) which is $436.32/hour profit.

To achieve the same amount of profit per hour with singles, you'd need to profit over $8 per sale on each individual card.

If all of your singles sorted themselves, scanned themselves, listed themselves, and you sold 800 singles per day and just shipped for 8 hours every day, 365 days per year, at $27/hour in profit, you're capped around $80,000/year in profit. This is why the low end volume seller mix in some raw to grade cards, or the higher end finds/buys, or just chasing the "hits" of the multicard orders.

If you take this same hypothetical scenario and pretend only 4 hours per day but that includes both listing and picking/packing/shipping, with an average profit per sale of $20 (my target minimum), the profit per year cap skyrockets to $350,000. Those extra 4 hours can be used to continue working on the business systems and sourcing in larger and larger quantities.

The real money in low end singles is when customers buy multiple cards at a time. Each listing is a lottery scratch off that you put time into hoping to win that 3 card order or that 20 card order, 40, 100, etc. I loved the rush of selling some random person a hundred singles. It's great. But you can't scale a solo-business purely on that hope. I spent a year using all of my sales, marketing (my primary business/career is in marketing), and customer service skills trying to crack the code to consistent multi-card orders. I couldn't make it work. But just switching to lots solved that problem, all I needed was a way to list them as fast as I list singles. This gave birth to my software project that actually makes listing lots FASTER than listing singles.

Multicard orders of $1.99 shipped cards can often easily dwarf that $436.22 profit per hour (and even my $240 target) but the problem is that it is too infrequent. I think that the role that those cheap cards play in a full-timers business is an insurance policy to guarantee some baseline sales and also as motivation to keep going (because those highs are HIGH). But the advantage that I have as a part-timer is that I'm not counting on cards to pay my bills--I'm growing this for fun and for maximizing profit per hour so that it can some day comfortably be my primary focus. I have the freedom and security to work ON the business (particularly maximizing profit per hour) instead of IN it trying to make sure the bills get paid. I can spend my "eBay time" coding some crazy #@#@#@#@ to test an idea, have it be a failure, and just move on without having lost a part of my livelihood because I wasn't listing. Whether it's cards or any other business, I highly recommend this sort of play and experimentation before shoving all of the chips in.

Yep.

You eloquently summed up why I also sell cheap star cards in lots rather than one at a time.

[shrevecity]

Originally Posted by jkampis

Yep.

You eloquently summed up why I also sell cheap star cards in lots rather than one at a time.

It works for you and your needs, does not mean it works for others. That's life. Not everybody has the same experience for various reason, not everyone wants the same experience. There is no right or wrong way.

Some of the stuff he pointed out is tge same reason some prefer singles. Transaction count is one of the best things for sellers with the algorithm. If sellers are hovering around the 400 count every 3 months those small bumps can get them over that very important hump. Having baseline daily sales should also be a goal for every seller in my mind regardless of their needs.

[mogwai316]

.....

[Raleigh504]

Originally Posted by shrevecity

Anyone doing 99 cents with free shipping is losing. Most here I think have said for items with free shipping is 1.49 or higher. I have started if I cannot list for 1.79 on these I will list them in 2 or 3 card lots and shoot for a 2.99 bottom price.

Now while I am still running around just shy of 400 transaction count every 3 months in my current rebuild I do list auctions starting at 1 penny with free shipping. Most of these end up selling in the 2 to 4 dollar range and are items that are from large purchased that I have really nothing in. Even the rare ones that lose are worth it because of the transaction count and the overall algorithm boost

As I said earlier the time factor is heavier for small sellers and those building because the less items you have the less likely multi item sales are made. But once you get an inventory established those sales become more common. The more organized ypu get in your process the more streamlined you get as well. With some of the programs out there listing a 100 or more an hour is not that difficult. Things you do in your listing can help greatly in your shipping speed. Custom SKU or codes in title that tell you where said item is makes a big difference

I am bumping my lowest cards to be 1.99 eventually (hopefully by 2025) and I do auctions starting at 1.39 and it’s mainly to just move items. I think I get a little profit but mainly to move items. It doesn’t always work and sometimes when I relist it as a BIN for higher it will even go for that price which is funny.

[jkampis]

Originally Posted by shrevecity

It works for you and your needs, does not mean it works for others. That's life. Not everybody has the same experience for various reason, not everyone wants the same experience. There is no right or wrong way.

Correct

[paulcarlcards]

Originally Posted by waytoomanycards

Did you try variation listings? The large "pick em" sellers do get a high percentage of multi-card orders, though perhaps with a lower sell-through rate overall. You can tell from both their feedback received and left. (The feedback received also shows if buyers make a multi-card purchase of the same card via the price).

Here's one example but there are several of them on ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/fdbk/feedback_p...sort=RELEVANCE

On a small scale, my experience with variation listings was similar, even when I had concurrent listings from the same set. The ones listed individually were usually single card purchases and the ones that were part of a variation listing were usually multi-card purchases. The star cards listed individually sold faster, though.

Yeah, I did. Variation listings didn’t perform well for me even with having other seller friends buy some cards from it to kick off sales (I paid them back, advertising expense). They definitely do help increase multi-card orders but it wasn’t enough for me to justify the worse STR.

[Budler]

Originally Posted by shrevecity

It works for you and your needs, does not mean it works for others. That's life. Not everybody has the same experience for various reason, not everyone wants the same experience. There is no right or wrong way.

Some of the stuff he pointed out is tge same reason some prefer singles. Transaction count is one of the best things for sellers with the algorithm. If sellers are hovering around the 400 count every 3 months those small bumps can get them over that very important hump. Having baseline daily sales should also be a goal for every seller in my mind regardless of their needs.

The first few sentences say it all.

I know a guy (retired and been in the hobby for 50 years). If he makes a few cents per card, he is happy. He had a store for years and what he is selling is all his leftovers. He uses several different platforms.

Another guy I know (has been in the hobby less than 10 years). He told me if he does not make a profit of $200 or more per sale it is not worth it to him. He only deals in high dollar stuff and large lots of older stuff. He is happy the way he is doing it. He does a lot of shows and E-Bay.

Then there are all the others in-between them. They has found a way they like and doing it and they do not tell others how to do it. Some have made it for a long time and others have failed in just a short period of time. It appears that they are going about it in the same way. It may be What they are selling more than how they are selling.

[msucollector4]

When yall do lots, do yall do them by player, set, team, or all of the above? I have a stack of cards that would probably be better suited for lots but not sure where to start