Question for Goldin Purchase

[Totalpackage]

Originally Posted by Old Chesapeake

Retailers and graders have VERY SPOTTY definitions of "game-used." For ex: I got a "game-used ball at a Yankees game from steiner (they used to sell them after the 5th inning or so). No idea who actually used it but I bought it in the 7th inning. I later had it signed by Mariano Rivera at a show. Then I sent the ball to Beckett and they Authenticated it as a "Game-Used Mariano Rivera" ball.

But my situation is different. The jersey was graded A10 by Mears and labeled Game Used by Goldin, but the whole grading process was based on fiction, how can they graded a jersey and sell it as game used which the team didn't even use that jerseys before.

[glen87]

Originally Posted by Totalpackage

Thanks for the response. I sent Goldin a few links from Getty Images which showed the actual jerseys which Hornets worn in those games in 2005. By the way, does Mears A10 guarantees or said the jersey was Game Used?

reading through their site, i saw no mention of a guarantee

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by glen87

i would say it falls on Mears.

look at it this way....you pull a card from a pack and see what you think is damage, and send to psa, knowing there is absolutely zero chance of it coming back a 10. you get lucky and the grader misses the damage and does give it a 10.

you go to ebay and sell the item, the buyer gets it in hand and sees the same damage as you did, and gets mad at you and wants you to refund him. you advertised a psa 10 (whether or not it actually SHOULD be a 10 is not relevant, it is a psa 10). you sold it as a 10 based on the OPINION of psa (just like goldin sold this based on the OPINION of mears). buyers complaint is with the provider of the opinion, not the seller.

however, if you do get documentation it is not game worn, then it is time to get goldin involved.

Maybe a letter from Mears was good enough for Goldin to list it for auction, but when three minutes of research on Getty Images shows that the Hornets didn’t wear this jersey, it’s now Goldin’s problem. They chose to list something with nothing more than an endorsement from Mears. That means they’re on the hook if Mears messes up. They should do their own due diligence if they don’t want to end up in situations like this.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by glen87

reading through their site, i saw no mention of a guarantee

Come on. You can’t sell something as Game Used that clearly isn’t Game Used. Simple as that.

[Totalpackage]

Originally Posted by glen87

reading through their site, i saw no mention of a guarantee

Thank you very much for the help! If you have time, please take a closer look at my purchase link. Is any term mentioned the jersey was a Game Used on the paperworks?

https://goldin.co/item/2005-06-chris...ts-jersey2qkql

[Totalpackage]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

Maybe a letter from Mears was good enough for Goldin to list it for auction, but when three minutes of research on Getty Images shows that the Hornets didn’t wear this jersey, it’s now Goldin’s problem. They chose to list something with nothing more than an endorsement from Mears. That means they’re on the hook if Mears messes up. They should do their own due diligence if they don’t want to end up in situations like this.

Thank you very much for checking it on Getty. I sent Goldin a few Getty's links but they keep ignore it and keep asking for documents that support my claim...

I also contacted MEARS but still waiting for their response.

[glen87]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

Come on. You can’t sell something as Game Used that clearly isn’t Game Used. Simple as that.

i never said you could or did i imply that, i was replying to his question if mears had a guarantee. i could not find one is all i said.

[Totalpackage]

Originally Posted by glen87

i never said you could or did i imply that, i was replying to his question if mears had a guarantee. i could not find one is all i said.

Goldin's support keep asking for documents even though I sent the links from Getty. MEARS probably will not admit their error. Maybe my only hope is an answer from the Pelicans.

[ThatGuyPal]

Here is a link to Mears Grading Scale

https://mearsonline.com/evaluation-s...tion-criteria/

A10: Manufactures characteristics of the jersey have been compared to known authentic examples and are consistent with respect tagging, lettering, numbering, size, patches and/or memorial bands, materials, style, buttons, zipper, etc. Each piece is also evaluated on the degree of evident use and wear, which must be consistent with that of the player, sport, position, field of play, and duration of use. No negative traits can be found to receive this grade. The jersey must be complete, unaltered, all original, and show optimal wear while remaining in the same condition as last worn by player.

A9: The examined jersey must have the same traits as the A10 with respect to overall characteristics and wear. The jersey is awarded the A9 grade when it exhibits a minor flaw that does not warrant more than a full point deduction. No reasonable doubt can exist as to whether or not the player wore the jersey during the proposed time frame in order to receive this grade.

If an A9 can't have any reasonable doubt I'd assume the same case applies to A10...in this case I'd say there is more than reasonable doubt.

Good News: Mears HAD a guarantee:

https://mearsonline.com/guarantee/

Bad News: It was discontinued in 2011. I found this in regards to a reason posted on a message board

With all that being said, I want to address changes in the MEARS Buyers Protection Program (MBPP). Effective 1 May 2011, claims against this policy will be limited to a refund of fees paid for evaluation. The MPPP was revolutionary and something I feel was the right concept of for the time. However, the number/value of items we have evaluated to this point have a direct and material effect on the price of insurance premiums required to safeguard this policy. Shareholders in MEARS Authentications (a separate business entity from MEARS Auctions) have made the decision to change the policy with respect to revenues and operating expenses. To date, the MBPP has refunded over $25,000 to collectors and there is another $6,000-$9,000 in claims pending. In the cases of where refunds were provided in accordance with the MBPP, the fees refunded far exceed (by an approximate factor of 10 times) the actual revenues generated by the evaluations. It should be noted that with respect to those pending claims, if found to be warranted, claims under the pre- 1 May 2011 will be honored.


Yes you read that right they had to issue $25,000 and had $9,000 in pending claims due to their errors aka fake items being authenticated.

I feel bad for you OP, the more I looked into it the more it seems this is likely fake and if this was happening 13 years ago before memorabilia blew up like it has and likely before a ton of employee turnover I can only imagine the issues now if this was authenticated in the last few years. The fact they had to cancel a guarantee policy because they were losing too much money due to their errors says all I would need to know. Good luck on resolution.

[Bosoxfan5990]

Where is Ken Goldin? He always likes to hop into these threads. Crickets thus far.

[ThatGuyPal]

Seems pretty slimey to even accept "Mears" items without any form of second-party authentication whatsoever (as they say in email, basically they take Mears at their word). It's obviously a legacy authenticator, but everything I've found about them dating back years there's people that die by their word and people questioning/claiming they authenticate fake items. I'm sure that's an issue for others (BBCE cough) but some of these people are stern in their belief the COA from them means nothing. Finally the website seems like it was done by not only a novice to websites but also to business just the way things are worded etc.

I guess there aren't a ton of options so their hands may be a bit tied when they need items to sell but if I was Goldin I'd at least have someone on staff knowledgeable on these things that may not be an expert but could catch something people on a forum have lol

[ninjacookies]

A Goldin Shower of sorrow and regret.


His shady antics really piss me off sometimes.

[Totalpackage]

Originally Posted by ThatGuyPal

Here is a link to Mears Grading Scale

https://mearsonline.com/evaluation-s...tion-criteria/

A10: Manufactures characteristics of the jersey have been compared to known authentic examples and are consistent with respect tagging, lettering, numbering, size, patches and/or memorial bands, materials, style, buttons, zipper, etc. Each piece is also evaluated on the degree of evident use and wear, which must be consistent with that of the player, sport, position, field of play, and duration of use. No negative traits can be found to receive this grade. The jersey must be complete, unaltered, all original, and show optimal wear while remaining in the same condition as last worn by player.

A9: The examined jersey must have the same traits as the A10 with respect to overall characteristics and wear. The jersey is awarded the A9 grade when it exhibits a minor flaw that does not warrant more than a full point deduction. No reasonable doubt can exist as to whether or not the player wore the jersey during the proposed time frame in order to receive this grade.

If an A9 can't have any reasonable doubt I'd assume the same case applies to A10...in this case I'd say there is more than reasonable doubt.

Good News: Mears HAD a guarantee:

https://mearsonline.com/guarantee/

Bad News: It was discontinued in 2011. I found this in regards to a reason posted on a message board

With all that being said, I want to address changes in the MEARS Buyers Protection Program (MBPP). Effective 1 May 2011, claims against this policy will be limited to a refund of fees paid for evaluation. The MPPP was revolutionary and something I feel was the right concept of for the time. However, the number/value of items we have evaluated to this point have a direct and material effect on the price of insurance premiums required to safeguard this policy. Shareholders in MEARS Authentications (a separate business entity from MEARS Auctions) have made the decision to change the policy with respect to revenues and operating expenses. To date, the MBPP has refunded over $25,000 to collectors and there is another $6,000-$9,000 in claims pending. In the cases of where refunds were provided in accordance with the MBPP, the fees refunded far exceed (by an approximate factor of 10 times) the actual revenues generated by the evaluations. It should be noted that with respect to those pending claims, if found to be warranted, claims under the pre- 1 May 2011 will be honored.


Yes you read that right they had to issue $25,000 and had $9,000 in pending claims due to their errors aka fake items being authenticated.

I feel bad for you OP, the more I looked into it the more it seems this is likely fake and if this was happening 13 years ago before memorabilia blew up like it has and likely before a ton of employee turnover I can only imagine the issues now if this was authenticated in the last few years. The fact they had to cancel a guarantee policy because they were losing too much money due to their errors says all I would need to know. Good luck on resolution.

Thank you so much for the help! Since MEARS discounted their guarantee policy in 2011, they should at least have some kind of policy that covers the benefits of the buyers or items they have graded. In my case, Goldin is the party who is obligating with me since they are the one who is selling it. Goldin sold a Game Used Jersey which they thought it was game used because there is LOA from MERAS. After I found out the Jersey was not a game used, Goldin pushed it to MEARS and keep asking me for documents to prove it's not a game used even after I sent multiple emails with the photo links from Getty. By the way, if there isn't any Game Used guarantee from MEARS, it was Goldin who added Game Used description to this Jersey since they want to sell it for higher price.

[Totalpackage]

Originally Posted by Bosoxfan5990

Where is Ken Goldin? He always likes to hop into these threads. Crickets thus far.

I think I need some help from Ken Goldin now. Their support personnel keeps ignore the evidence I provided and ask for some so call document to prove my claim. In fact, I just want them to cancel this unfair deal; who is going to pay $3000 for an unidentified jersey...

[Lee42]

Originally Posted by Totalpackage

I think I need some help from Ken Goldin now. Their support personnel keeps ignore the evidence I provided and ask for some so call document to prove my claim. In fact, I just want them to cancel this unfair deal; who is going to pay $3000 for an unidentified jersey...

I am probably the last person who would stick up for Ken Goldin, but why didn't you undertake this level of due diligence on the jersey before you bid on and subsequently won the auction?

There are often jerseys up for auction on various platforms that claim to be "game worn" and aren't despite the fact they have a "letter of opinion" as certification from XYZ company that the jersey was game worn/used?

Surely before spending this money on the jersey you should have done your research into it before buying it?

[RKH916]

Originally Posted by Lee42

I am probably the last person who would stick up for Ken Goldin, but why didn't you undertake this level of due diligence on the jersey before you bid on and subsequently won the auction?

There are often jerseys up for auction on various platforms that claim to be "game worn" and aren't despite the fact they have a "letter of opinion" as certification from XYZ company that the jersey was game worn/used?

Surely before spending this money on the jersey you should have done your research into it before buying it?

He's likely in the process of learning like most of us have been at some point. Both the buyer and the seller share the onus, sure, but in this case I'm taking his side...

Goldin is a large professional organization with far more resources than OP, and they still managed to #@#@#@#@ it up

[Totalpackage]

Originally Posted by Lee42

I am probably the last person who would stick up for Ken Goldin, but why didn't you undertake this level of due diligence on the jersey before you bid on and subsequently won the auction?

There are often jerseys up for auction on various platforms that claim to be "game worn" and aren't despite the fact they have a "letter of opinion" as certification from XYZ company that the jersey was game worn/used?

Surely before spending this money on the jersey you should have done your research into it before buying it?

First, I trusted those parties. Second, if every game used item needs to verify its identity by the customer, what are the needs for grading and auction companies then? However, if the jersey was sold on eBay from a personal seller or someone sold it during a show, you can say I need to do more work on the jersey before I made the purchase, but the fact is the jersey was sold on a well known auction platform and graded A10 by a well known authentication company. In this case, they are the error ones, not me.

[ninjacookies]

Who'd be willing to dish 3 racks for it?

Apparently you, based on your legally binding bid.


Of course the onus is on you for providing irrefutable evidence. Having suspicions about the dubious origins of the item after you bid is textbook definition of buyer's remorse.


Your 2 options have already been clearly laid out.

Pay up and deal with the repercussions of your hasty decision on something that may or may not be authentic in your mind.

Reneg and be banished from the platform eternally and deal with a potential (though unlikely) small claims summons from Uncle Kenny for breach of contract. And yes, he has served them before.

[Totalpackage]

Originally Posted by RKH916

He's likely in the process of learning like most of us have been at some point. Both the buyer and the seller share the onus, sure, but in this case I'm taking his side...

Goldin is a large professional organization with far more resources than OP, and they still managed to #@#@#@#@ it up

Thank you for your support. If the jersey wasn't listed on Goldin, I would definitely not to touch it. I started buying on Goldin since their old site era.

[Totalpackage]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Who'd be willing to dish 3 racks for it?

Apparently you, based on your legally binding bid.


Of course the onus is on you for providing irrefutable evidence. Having suspicions about the dubious origins of the item after you bid is textbook definition of buyer's remorse.


Your 2 options have already been clearly laid out.

Pay up and deal with the repercussions of your hasty decision on something that may or may not be authentic in your mind.

Reneg and be banished from the platform eternally and deal with a potential (though unlikely) small claims summons from Uncle Kenny for breach of contract. And yes, he has served them before.

Thank you for your suggestion. I am waiting for a response from the Pelicans and see what they can bring up.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by Totalpackage

Thank you for your suggestion. I am waiting for a response from the Pelicans and see what they can bring up.

I hope you do get confirmation to affirm your suspicions, since it doesn't seem like you're too thrilled about the purchase.

I'm not a huge fan of Goldin, but can see it both ways, as I've had legit items I've sold through PWCC needing 3 or 4 relistings before finding a paying bidder.

[Totalpackage]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

I hope you do get confirmation to affirm your suspicions, since it doesn't seem like you're too thrilled about the purchase.

I'm not a huge fan of Goldin, but can see it both ways, as I've had legit items I've sold through PWCC needing 3 or 4 relistings before finding a paying bidder.

Thank you.

[fabiani12333]

Um, the listing claimed it was "game-used" multiple times, yet it didn't claim MEARS authenticated it as game used. So it was Goldin who falsely claimed the jersey was game used. How can they then tell the buyer to reach out to MEARS for documentation? Why is it up to the buyer to prove Goldin's claim wrong?

Sorry, OP, it seems like you fell for a scam or unfortunate listing error.

[Totalpackage]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Um, the listing claimed it was "game-used" multiple times, yet it didn't claim MEARS authenticated it as game used. So it was Goldin who falsely claimed the jersey was game used. How can they then tell the buyer to reach out to MEARS for documentation? Why is it up to the buyer to prove Goldin's claim wrong?

Sorry, OP, it seems like you fell for a scam or unfortunate listing error.

What do I need to do in this case then? Goldin wants some kind of document to prove. I have already sent Mears multiple messages regarding this jersey but haven't heard a response yet.

[KhalDrogo]

Let this be a lesson that you should do your due diligence in authenticating any game-used items before purchasing. Photomatching and provenance is everything in game-used. Most of the “game-used” market is trash. You should operate under the assumption that the item is fake until you can prove otherwise.