Paul Skenes’ Debut Patch Auto has been pulled

[Bcr]

Originally Posted by JWBlue

How has this post gone 27 minutes without being acknowledged?

1) Who is this?

2) Why is the card in a top loader?

This is a troll post:

https://x.com/RohansCards/status/1880293978375090284

[auctionjmm]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

In fact -- I don't really know anything about what actually happened. I don't know whether or not this is all a big fabrication by Topps, who never actually packed-out the card. Or if Topps is just relaying information given to them by a family who redeemed the card, and they don't actually know one way or the other what actually happened.

Well option A is an illegal act that could lead to the loss of license and Panini becoming the exclusive producer of sports cards (which I mentioned earlier). Panini has a TON to gain by exposing fraud like this.

Which is why I'm going with your option B. People are free to bash Fanatics all they want but the idea that they would commit a crime at the very early stages of their licensure for publicity is something even a moron wouldn't attempt, when the enemy next door is ready to take them for everything.

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by Bcr

This is a troll post:

https://x.com/RohansCards/status/1880293978375090284

Won’t matter. It’s already evidence of guilt is people’s minds.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

You have it backward, though. We aren't saying we believe anything. We are saying there isn't proof to believe the conspiracies. Big difference. Belief in the conspiracies is what we are combating. It is the conspiracy theorists who are asserting a belief in something. Not the other way around.

No, the conspiracy theories are providing possible alternative narratives. Yes, the conspiracy theorists are expressing strong skepticism of the "official" story, but they are only providing theories -- not stating truths.

If Topps would just give specific details on where the box came from, it would go a long way to tamping down the skepticism of the official story. People would still be skeptical of whether or not a kid actually pulled the card, but at least they could establish where the card came from.

[auctionjmm]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

No, the conspiracy theories are providing possible alternative narratives. Yes, the conspiracy theorists are expressing strong skepticism of the "official" story, but they are only providing theories -- not stating truths.

If Topps would just give specific details on where the box came from, it would go a long way to tamping down the skepticism of the official story. People would still be skeptical of whether or not a kid actually pulled the card, but at least they could establish where the card came from.

So if Topps said the box was purchased from malaf9613 on eBay who has a 97.1% feedback rating, that would make all the difference for you? (Yes, that's a real eBay user. I just picked the first sealed hobby box I saw).

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

Well option A is an illegal act that could lead to the loss of license and Panini becoming the exclusive producer of sports cards (which I mentioned earlier). Panini has a TON to gain by exposing fraud like this.

Which is why I'm going with your option B. People are free to bash Fanatics all they want but the idea that they would commit a crime at the very early stages of their licensure for publicity is something even a moron wouldn't attempt, when the enemy next door is ready to take them for everything.

If Topps/Fanatics drafted the journal entry, why would they lose their license and Panini be granted it?

[ScooterD]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

No, the conspiracy theories are providing possible alternative narratives. Yes, the conspiracy theorists are expressing strong skepticism of the "official" story, but they are only providing theories -- not stating truths.

If Topps would just give specific details on where the box came from, it would go a long way to tamping down the skepticism of the official story. People would still be skeptical of whether or not a kid actually pulled the card, but at least they could establish where the card came from.

While this whole thing is sketchy as hell, I can’t name any prior instance where a manufacturer has been asked to provide and provided a chain of custody for any card from printing to pull.

Can anyone think of that type of information being requested and/or provided in the past?

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

So if Topps said the box was purchased from malaf9613 on eBay who has a 97.1% feedback rating, that would make all the difference for you? (Yes, that's a real eBay user. I just picked the first sealed hobby box I saw).

Yeah, it would. Because at that point, you could ask the seller if they sold the box to someone in the LA area around Christmas. You'd have a record of the sale being made. These are concrete, verifiable details.

[auctionjmm]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

If Topps/Fanatics drafted the journal entry, why would they lose their license and Panini be granted it?

That's not what I was responding to. He said IF the card was never packed out in the first place. That would be fraud.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

While this whole thing is sketchy as hell, I can’t name any prior instance where a manufacturer has been asked to provide and provided a chain of custody for any card from printing to pull.

Can anyone think of that type of information being requested and/or provided in the past?

Fanatics offered that information up. That’s on them.

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

That's not what I was responding to. He said IF the card was never packed out in the first place. That would be fraud.

He never said that, you assumed that.

And again, if it was fraud, 1) how would it be proved and 2) if proved why do you assume Topps/Fanatics would lose their license and Panini would be handed it?

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

While this whole thing is sketchy as hell, I can’t name any prior instance where a manufacturer has been asked to and provided a chain of custody for any card from printing to pull.

Can anyone think of that type of information being requested and/or provided in the past?

This card was hyped-up like no other Topps card previously. You had an MLB team offering a very large bounty, for goodness sake.

It's not unreasonable to expect Fanatics to provide the public with specific details about how a monster card like this was pulled. The continued secrecy of where the box came from, with other personal details about who redeemed the card being revealed, has many paying customers suspicious and upset.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

Got it. So how does highendbreaks fit into this? PSA/Highendbreaks picked up the card from Fanatics in Texas, and flew it to California for grading?

I actually asked them and they actually responded. Some line about same reason all the other redemptions don't go that way. That they wanted to examine the card beforehand to ensure it would grade well.

Don't know if they are being completely honest, but they seem to not know about Topps having that option to send the card for grading. I guess I'd throw this out there, but the more information about really the missteps in the process moves the meter to it was actually hit by a random person and Fanatics is trying so hard to embellish the story.

[auctionjmm]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

He never said that, you assumed that.

And again, if it was fraud, 1) how would it be proved and 2) if proved why do you assume Topps/Fanatics would lose their license and Panini would be handed it?

What?

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

In fact -- I don't really know anything about what actually happened. I don't know whether or not this is all a big fabrication by Topps, who never actually packed-out the card. Or if Topps is just relaying information given to them by a family who redeemed the card, and they don't actually know one way or the other what actually happened.

No I wasn't assuming LOL. I literally responded to this very post.

[seanbros55]

I’m SHOCKED that Occam’s Razor hasn’t been referenced yet in this thread. It’s been a Blowout staple in these scandal by the uninformed masses.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

If Topps/Fanatics drafted the journal entry, why would they lose their license and Panini be granted it?

Fanatics fabricating an entire story about what happened wouldn't make them lose their license. Not sure of what legal ramifications they would face.

On the other hand, if the redemption was never packed out and back doored, there more potential legal issues. And that could possibly lead to some cancelled licensing agreements.

[ZappBrannigan]

It’s gonna end like everything else.
Skenes will blow
Kid gets cash
Buyer loses thousands
Someone from a cave in the Middle East new hobby fav.

[auctionjmm]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

And again, if it was fraud, 1) how would it be proved and 2) if proved why do you assume Topps/Fanatics would lose their license and Panini would be handed it?

I've seen county commissioners get 25+ years in prison for less. If Topps lied about a sweepstakes type of situation when no real human had a chance at the card, it would be a legal and civil mess. Why would MLB/NFL/NBA want to associate with a business that lied to consumers about a chase card? Yes, It would be up to investigators to prove it, but Panini would have nothing to lose by investigating it. You can't start a GoFundMe, advertise that the money is going to X, and then keep the money for yourself without facing prison time. Telling the general public that a card was randomly inserted into a product, encouraging them to buy said product for a chance at pulling the card, while not actually making it available to those people, would be more than enough to lose their license.

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

I've seen county commissioners get 25+ years in prison for less. If Topps lied about a sweepstakes type of situation when no real human had a chance at the card, it would be a legal and civil mess. Why would MLB/NFL/NBA want to associate with a business that lied to consumers about a chase card? Yes, It would be up to investigators to prove it, but Panini would have nothing to lose by investigating it. You can't start a GoFundMe, advertise that the money is going to X, and then keep the money for yourself without facing prison time. Telling the general public that a card was randomly inserted into a product, encouraging them to buy said product for a chance at pulling the card, while not actually making it available to those people, would be more than enough to lose their license.

And to what end if true?

- To ensure the redemption/card doesn’t get stuck in a sealed hobby box forever

- To put a feel-good story out in news to get some good PR

- To get an extra month of TCU sales for themselves and their partnered breakers

Not nothing, for sure, but it would be a heck of a risky gamble.

[Bcr]

Aren't monopolies just great!

[Osfan81]

Originally Posted by JWBlue

How has this post gone 27 minutes without being acknowledged?

1) Who is this?

2) Why is the card in a top loader?

This is in a top loader because this card is not real. The real ones are thicker than the standard top loader that this appears to be in. This post appears to be nothing more than attention seeking...

[blackbears86]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

The addiction is tragic.

Is something fishy going on here? Maybe.


Are the journal entries off for an 11 year old? absolutely.


But unless someone talks or something else is uncovered, this will go no where.


and yes, I am a degen.

[Osfan81]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

There is zero public evidence a kid did pull it, though, beyond Topps saying so in a social media post and a supposed hand-written journal entry from the kid.

I just assume there is an actual kid involved because it's been claimed by Topps. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. If Kenny G had met with the kid on camera, I'd believe it a lot more, but that didn't happen.

In fact -- I don't really know anything about what actually happened. I don't know whether or not this is all a big fabrication by Topps, who never actually packed-out the card. Or if Topps is just relaying information given to them by a family who redeemed the card, and they don't actually know one way or the other what actually happened.

There's a lot of reasons why somebody would pull this anonymously. Athletes' homes have been burglarized all over the country. Maybe they have a relative that sucks energy...who knows.

I'm just not buying that Topps did not know it was pulled and still marketed the card as being out there. That's what pisses me off if Topps knew. If Topps knew and still marketed it, that's fraud...

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by JWBlue

If they don't take the opportunity it will make me more skeptical.

What possible reason would the family have to turn it down?

Basically no reason to turn it down, especially now that the owner said it could either be in Pittsburgh or when they come to LA.

[fabiani12333]

Nowhere on 2024 Topps Chrome Update boxes or packs does it mention the Paul Skenes Debut Patch card. The boxes state: "MAY CONTAIN REDEMPTION CARDS WITH EXPIRATION DATES".

There is an official checklist and odds sheet from Topps, but where does it say you actually have a shot at pulling the Paul Skenes Debut Patch redemption card?

Clearly, the Skenes card was used by Topps in marketing for the product. But does that legally require Topps to make it available to the public in randomly-distributed packs?