Messi's brother doing his on-card signing during 2017-18

[goblackhawks]

(Deleted)

[goblackhawks]

(Deleted)

[YayNJ]

Originally Posted by crdbored

https://goldin.co/item/2021-22-topps...JkSW5kZXgiOjh9

"Messi" red auto /5 at $800 with a nice sticker lol

sold for $2100

Messi's brother sure has an expensive signature.

These cards amount to nothing much more than straight up fraud. I'm genuinely shocked there's been no legal action yet considering how comically litigious the US is.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by YayNJ

sold for $2100

Messi's brother sure has an expensive signature.

These cards amount to nothing much more than straight up fraud. I'm genuinely shocked there's been no legal action yet considering how comically litigious the US is.

Amounts under $5000 are litigated via small claims court in front of a judge.

The petitioner would have to prove that Messi did not sign the card in question to win the case. And the fact that the signature "looks different" would NOT be considered sufficient evidence, given that it is completely normal for people's signatures to vary.

The best hope would actually be to file suit in small claims court and hope that nobody from Panini shows up to defend the case and win by summary judgment. But in that case, collecting the award from Panini would be very difficult.

And if the petitioner bought the card on the secondary market (as opposed to pulling it directly from a Panini product), they wouldn't have any case at all, since they would have had the opportunity to do due diligence BEFORE purchasing the card.

[yiguiri2002]

Craziest thing to me is that Leaf pretty much got him to sign everything while Panini/Topps didn't. And their autos still sell for way more.

Another prove that design and licensing matter a lot in the hobby.

[LittleJimmies]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Amounts under $5000 are litigated via small claims court in front of a judge.

The petitioner would have to prove that Messi did not sign the card in question to win the case. And the fact that the signature "looks different" would NOT be considered sufficient evidence, given that it is completely normal for people's signatures to vary.

The best hope would actually be to file suit in small claims court and hope that nobody from Panini shows up to defend the case and win by summary judgment. But in that case, collecting the award from Panini would be very difficult.

And if the petitioner bought the card on the secondary market (as opposed to pulling it directly from a Panini product), they wouldn't have any case at all, since they would have had the opportunity to do due diligence BEFORE purchasing the card.

I took the comment to be referring to the overall economic impact of the fraudulent cards. The $ value tied to all the fake Messi auto cards out there has to be at least a couple million. i'd imagine the situation would be suffice for a class action lawsuit against Topps/Fanatics/Panini by consumers, but is likely infeasible due to difficulty in recruiting plaintiffs and relatively small size of impact. Topps/Fanatics/Panini probably would have a pretty easy time in a case against Messi, but no way they are burning that bridge. I'd assume this has already been handled in back table dealings by effectively saying "we don't like that you did that, will you please agree to sign for us for longer?".

One big takeaway from this, for me at least, is that Messi just might be more of a Richard than his crafted public persona would make seem.

[YayNJ]

By all accounts Messi is a massive c-word. Don't forget he's a also a convicted criminal - both he had his father were found to be fraudsters by a court of law. Saved only by Spains lax laws on first time offenders, and crimes carrying less than two years in prison.

If a poor person evades tax they are vilified. For some reason we have created a society where it's fine and even more acceptable the richer you get.

[JWBlue]

I don't think anyone could sue the card manufacturers. They don't set the value of the cards. They could sue maybe for the cost of the box or pack but who would do that?

[Chicharito]

Looks like a fake auto passed PSA/DNA

https://www.ebay.com/itm/17691963831...mis&media=COPY

[Ianhatcher]

Originally Posted by Chicharito

Looks like a fake auto passed PSA/DNA

https://www.ebay.com/itm/17691963831...mis&media=COPY

Based on the Cert # that is likely before they started denying them. I'd guess that was graded around 2002-21 as they are over 100 million now.

[KevinCaptiva]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/623...trading-cards/

[YayNJ]

wow.. making the New York Times... holy moley

[kingofsnake]

An objective and plainly written article by Larry Holder - good job.

Must be a constant headache for grading companies like PSA to decertify all the mistakes that have made (and continue to make) - like a never-ending game of whack a mole.

[ThatGuyPal]

I'm getting a paywall and don't know any good removers anymore, would love to read this article if anyone has a free link.

[chiefs]

Originally Posted by ThatGuyPal

I'm getting a paywall and don't know any good removers anymore, would love to read this article if anyone has a free link.

http://archive.today/bpk2s

[chiefs]

Originally Posted by YayNJ

wow.. making the New York Times... holy moley

the NYT bought the Athletic back in 2022 thats why it shows it in the url. Then the NYT killed its own sports coverage desk after the purchase. I got rid of my subscription so not sure how they're covering sports right now.

[crdbored]

Images of the new 2024 finest MLS Messi autos are up and they are interesting.

The typically "L" loop checks out but the marks above it idk.
The little circle with the dot look interesting. A lot of the questionable autos have that weird circle and dot.
You can find examples looking through this forum.

https://ripped.topps.com/2024-topps-...llect-product/

The 2023 MLS autos look normal and authentic.
https://ripped.topps.com/messi-redemption/

He also has exclusive signatures for Icons. Both type of autos show up there.
Idk the process/authentication for that stuff, but it's interesting. It could be that he has varying autos.

https://www.icons.com/players/l-z/of...NzIzNy4wLjAuMA..
Here's a video of him signing.

They can all be authentic but some of those finest autos...idk.
Looks like he's over signing lol
Thoughts?

[MonsterTruck20]

The 2024 Finest autos look like his brother is still signing for him, but he’s improving! He’s gotten rid of the hanger but is still struggling with some of the other telltale signs.

[gorillaz]

2024 Chrome autos are fake too. PSA won’t pass them. Buddy of mine tried grading and PSA denied grading due to authenticity of auto.

[crdbored]

Originally Posted by gorillaz

2024 Chrome autos are fake too. PSA won’t pass them. Buddy of mine tried grading and PSA denied grading due to authenticity of auto.

Wow, i hadn't paid attention to the '24 chrome autos, but they look similar to the finest.

Here's a PSA slab one.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/23595427855...BlBMUODF--nCZQ

[gorillaz]

Yeah he hit one of the sapphire autos and they wouldn’t grade it due to authenticity of the auto

[crdbored]

Reviewed some of those 24 chrome autos and it appears Messi's bro is at it again.

He's improved on the autos but still not perfect lol
Here's an auto that closely resembles that triangle patten. Look at that sharp loop.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/17697140801...Bk9SR8Ln-OzCZQ

[peterose4hof]

Does anyone have a list of which products have Messi's sigs and which ones have his brothers?

[Jwax13]

Originally Posted by gorillaz

2024 Chrome autos are fake too. PSA won’t pass them. Buddy of mine tried grading and PSA denied grading due to authenticity of auto.

Bgs gave mine a 10 auto grade

[YayNJ]

BGS are garbage these days

(no offence meant)