Item not received / Standard Envelope

[Jstratton]

Ive posted basically this same question/topic before on here, as im sure many have, but seems like things are always changing or updating ... so wanted to see if other sellers are doing things any differently.

As im sure any of you selling standard envelopes know --- USPS can be pretty lousy with updating tracking standard envelope. Lately for me, often times there is not a single tracking update until it reaches a final destination post office. Sometimes, not even a single tracking update in entire tracking (aside from my initial label purchase) even though the items get all way to buy and is delivered (i only know they were delivered in these cases, because of positive feedback about the item).

Due to this long process at times, on maybe 2-3% of standard envelopes i send out, i get buyers that are frustrated/nervous after say 7-10 days with no tracking updates, and they file Item Not Received. And in those cases, i always send them a msg asking for their patience, that standard envelopes can take a while (and are bad with tracking updates), and if nothing moves in next several days after that, i will proceed with refund.

So with that --- the way i had understood PIP claims was that you had to wait 30 days until after the order is placed and item is shipped, before you could file a claim. So up to this point, thats what i have done in these situations ... granted the refund in above scenario, and proceed with PIP claim 30+ days after Order was placed.

However sometimes the Item DOES end up getting delivered, in those weeks between me providing the refund, but prior to the 30 day mark.

When speaking with ebay customer support abt this just now, they told me that i can in fact go ahead with filling a PIP claim right away, after providing the refund. Even if it has only been this usual 10-14 day mark after initial order.

I feel like i have heard it every which way. But im just trying to go about it the right way. Wondering how others handle this scenario?? Thank you!!

[JeffG1954]

Originally Posted by Jstratton

Ive posted basically this same question/topic before on here, as im sure many have, but seems like things are always changing or updating ... so wanted to see if other sellers are doing things any differently.

As im sure any of you selling standard envelopes know --- USPS can be pretty lousy with updating tracking standard envelope. Lately for me, often times there is not a single tracking update until it reaches a final destination post office. Sometimes, not even a single tracking update in entire tracking (aside from my initial label purchase) even though the items get all way to buy and is delivered (i only know they were delivered in these cases, because of positive feedback about the item).

Due to this long process at times, on maybe 2-3% of standard envelopes i send out, i get buyers that are frustrated/nervous after say 7-10 days with no tracking updates, and they file Item Not Received. And in those cases, i always send them a msg asking for their patience, that standard envelopes can take a while (and are bad with tracking updates), and if nothing moves in next several days after that, i will proceed with refund.

So with that --- the way i had understood PIP claims was that you had to wait 30 days until after the order is placed and item is shipped, before you could file a claim. So up to this point, thats what i have done in these situations ... granted the refund in above scenario, and proceed with PIP claim 30+ days after Order was placed.

However sometimes the Item DOES end up getting delivered, in those weeks between me providing the refund, but prior to the 30 day mark.

When speaking with ebay customer support abt this just now, they told me that i can in fact go ahead with filling a PIP claim right away, after providing the refund. Even if it has only been this usual 10-14 day mark after initial order.

I feel like i have heard it every which way. But im just trying to go about it the right way. Wondering how others handle this scenario?? Thank you!!

I believe the 30 day wait time has been reduced to 15 days, so that might help a little. If/when I get an INR request and the item shows "delivered", I explain how bad the ESE tracking can be and suggest that the buyer be patient....I do not refund. If the tracking does not show delivered I wait until the last possible day to refund prior to eBay stepping in before I do refund. For me there has always been enough time lapse from mailing date to day before eBay steps in to force refund so that I am able to refund and file the PIP claim the same day.

[Jstratton]

That is super helpful, I appreciate it.

I didn't know about the 15 days. I think I heard something along those lines before, but wasn't sure of the validity of that.

But yes, that being the case, that will help tremendously. As I'm sure you're used to, I get those messages usually around a 10-14 day mark from buyers ... and i send them a similar message first in response. So buying that extra 3-4 days of time, that definitely would get most to the 15day mark.

I am a bit annoyed that I had a 30 min convo w ebay today, trying to get to bottom of this, and they could have just given me this info. Instead they were saying something about filing appeals instead, and I was lost.

Thanks again!

[JeffG1954]

Originally Posted by Jstratton

That is super helpful, I appreciate it.

I didn't know about the 15 days. I think I heard something along those lines before, but wasn't sure of the validity of that.

But yes, that being the case, that will help tremendously. As I'm sure you're used to, I get those messages usually around a 10-14 day mark from buyers ... and i send them a similar message first in response. So buying that extra 3-4 days of time, that definitely would get most to the 15day mark.

I am a bit annoyed that I had a 30 min convo w ebay today, trying to get to bottom of this, and they could have just given me this info. Instead they were saying something about filing appeals instead, and I was lost.

Thanks again!

Just another instance of eBay telling you whatever it takes to get you off of the phone. Better to ask here because people here actually sell on eBay....not so sure about the people working the phones at eBay.

[nam812]

Originally Posted by Jstratton

.....As im sure any of you selling standard envelopes know --- USPS can be pretty lousy with updating tracking standard envelope.........

The USPS has nothing to do with the tracking of ebay's standard envelopes.

[longhornjunkie]

Originally Posted by Jstratton

That is super helpful, I appreciate it.

I didn't know about the 15 days. I think I heard something along those lines before, but wasn't sure of the validity of that.

But yes, that being the case, that will help tremendously. As I'm sure you're used to, I get those messages usually around a 10-14 day mark from buyers ... and i send them a similar message first in response. So buying that extra 3-4 days of time, that definitely would get most to the 15day mark.

I am a bit annoyed that I had a 30 min convo w ebay today, trying to get to bottom of this, and they could have just given me this info. Instead they were saying something about filing appeals instead, and I was lost.

Thanks again!

I went through one recently and the buyer seemed ok with waiting but then escalated the case and eBay forced me to refund. Label was created March 20, INR filed April 1, case closed in his favor April 5.
However, I appealed, stating the policy was unfair to sellers, the time limits for INR claims and PIP claims were incongruous, and if the item got delivered before I could file a PIP claim it'd be denied. They refunded me the refund.

[Jstratton]

Originally Posted by nam812

The USPS has nothing to do with the tracking of ebay's standard envelopes.

Is that true? I do understand that standard envelopes are not scanned like ground advantage would be, but i thought they were still part of a tracking system that was at least connected with usps.

[JeffG1954]

Originally Posted by Jstratton

Is that true? I do understand that standard envelopes are not scanned like ground advantage would be, but i thought they were still part of a tracking system that was at least connected with usps.

The manpower is provided by the USPS, the actual tracking system is by contract with Pitney Bowes....scans are only provided as these envelopes pass thru sorting machines, never by a human. If your local post office does not have a sorting machine, which most small ones do not, the last scanning happens at a hub and the envelopes can be marked "delivered". After being marked "delivered" they then have to be loaded onto a truck and shipped to your local post office where they are sorted by hand for delivery as a regular envelope would be. This process can take a day or two, sometimes up to a week, after being marked "delivered" to actually be put into a mailbox. If you take an ESE tracking number to a USPS counter, they will not recognize it. This is also why the insurance is not provided by the USPS, but by PIP.

[Jstratton]

Originally Posted by JeffG1954

The manpower is provided by the USPS, the actual tracking system is by contract with Pitney Bowes....scans are only provided as these envelopes pass thru sorting machines, never by a human. If your local post office does not have a sorting machine, which most small ones do not, the last scanning happens at a hub and the envelopes can be marked "delivered". After being marked "delivered" they then have to be loaded onto a truck and shipped to your local post office where they are sorted by hand for delivery as a regular envelope would be. This process can take a day or two, sometimes up to a week, after being marked "delivered" to actually be put into a mailbox. If you take an ESE tracking number to a USPS counter, they will not recognize it. This is also why the insurance is not provided by the USPS, but by PIP.

much appreciated on the info here. While the aggravations may still exist here regardless of how the system functions, its definitely good to know this so i stop attributing any sort of blame where its otherwise undeserved.

[paparoke]

Just woke up to an INR this morning for a card I shipped on the Apr 23rd...just crazy. It shows origin processing on the 23rd and nothing after that, but only a freaking week and they file a claim. I'm gonna let the claim ride out the 5 days and hope it gets delivered before I take action. At a minimum, I will block this dude from buying anything else from me. Ebay really needs to clean this process up and not allow any claims until at least 3-4 weeks have elapsed since shipping. People looking for free cards smh.

[JeffG1954]

Originally Posted by paparoke

Just woke up to an INR this morning for a card I shipped on the Apr 23rd...just crazy. It shows origin processing on the 23rd and nothing after that, but only a freaking week and they file a claim. I'm gonna let the claim ride out the 5 days and hope it gets delivered before I take action. At a minimum, I will block this dude from buying anything else from me. Ebay really needs to clean this process up and not allow any claims until at least 3-4 weeks have elapsed since shipping. People looking for free cards smh.

If this item receives any tracking updates, eBay will extend the date for you to resolve.

[paparoke]

Originally Posted by JeffG1954

If this item receives any tracking updates, eBay will extend the date for you to resolve.

That's good to know, thanks JeffG. I hope there is another update within the next 5 days.

[f2tornado]

Originally Posted by paparoke

...I will block this dude from buying anything else from me. Ebay really needs to clean this process up and not allow any claims until at least 3-4 weeks have elapsed since shipping. People looking for free cards smh.

I usually block them if they're low feedback types. I'd like to think a 500+ type would be less likely to pull that stuff. I agree that eBay should not allow an IRN on these for at least 15 days. That at least allows enough time for the PIP claim to be filed.

[CardClub2Elect]

Quick related question. I'm at day 20 after shipping a sold card with it not arriving. Granted it was shipped to Hawaii. I got one tracking update from my home post office the day I shipped it and that's it. The buyer reached out today asking if I knew where the card was. Does the buyer need to file an item not received claim for me to collect the insurance or can I just refund without the claim but list the reason as "item not received". It was a $3 card so I'm not sweating it, just want to do things the right way.

Thanks guys

[longhornjunkie]

Originally Posted by CardClub2Elect

Quick related question. I'm at day 20 after shipping a sold card with it not arriving. Granted it was shipped to Hawaii. I got one tracking update from my home post office the day I shipped it and that's it. The buyer reached out today asking if I knew where the card was. Does the buyer need to file an item not received claim for me to collect the insurance or can I just refund without the claim but list the reason as "item not received". It was a $3 card so I'm not sweating it, just want to do things the right way.

Thanks guys

The eBay help section says you need a "Screenshot of buyer's complaint message or dispute details regarding the lost or damaged item". I've always used a screenshot of a INR claim but maybe a message is good enough.

[Blake050]

Originally Posted by JeffG1954

The manpower is provided by the USPS, the actual tracking system is by contract with Pitney Bowes....scans are only provided as these envelopes pass thru sorting machines, never by a human. If your local post office does not have a sorting machine, which most small ones do not, the last scanning happens at a hub and the envelopes can be marked "delivered". After being marked "delivered" they then have to be loaded onto a truck and shipped to your local post office where they are sorted by hand for delivery as a regular envelope would be. This process can take a day or two, sometimes up to a week, after being marked "delivered" to actually be put into a mailbox. If you take an ESE tracking number to a USPS counter, they will not recognize it. This is also why the insurance is not provided by the USPS, but by PIP.

I have always dropped off ESE orders at the post office by my house, and it's very hit or miss if they ever get scanned. If I dropped them off at the main USPS hub instead, would they definitely be scanned there?

[Blake050]

Related - latest low feedback buyer scamming a refund for an ESE order not scanned is mavarj-0. Recommend blocking.

Max Varju in Lorain, OH

[JeffG1954]

Originally Posted by Blake050

I have always dropped off ESE orders at the post office by my house, and it's very hit or miss if they ever get scanned. If I dropped them off at the main USPS hub instead, would they definitely be scanned there?

With ESE, nothing is definite....I would expect that tracking info would be just about the same. Your local post office likely does not have a sorting machine, which is where the ESE envelopes receive scans. A good chance that your local post office ships stuff to the nearest main USPS hub with a sorting machine....so the same place you would be taking them to and likely the same results.

[deek05]

Had one of these a few weeks ago. Tracking shows it bouncing around the buyers area for a week. Buyer asked for a refund. I told them to open item not received claim thru ebay. Buyer said ebay told them not to but just to ask for a refund. Was called an idiot and threats of negative feedback...got tired of it all. Refunded and blocked. It was a low $ card but still...

[CardClub2Elect]

Originally Posted by JeffG1954

With ESE, nothing is definite....I would expect that tracking info would be just about the same. Your local post office likely does not have a sorting machine, which is where the ESE envelopes receive scans. A good chance that your local post office ships stuff to the nearest main USPS hub with a sorting machine....so the same place you would be taking them to and likely the same results.

Ive noticed for me and it probably varies by every post office but I work in Boston everyday and my train station is right next to the main post office hub for Boston. I get scans there almost always. My local PO doesn't have scanners and uses a different hub than the Boston one and those are somewhat hit or miss. I try to bring all my ESE's to the Boston Hub which is actually more convenient than my local PO anyway.

I sell a small amount of cards for fun, I see it as an offshoot to the hobby for me. I really get anxious when an ESE never gets a scan and takes away from the enjoyment. I also enjoy seeing the scans of a sale as it travels across the country all the way to delivery. That first scan is so important though, it can be the only proof that you actually mailed the card. It's not about the refund or hassle to me, it's just more the small chance that someone thinks you just didn't want to ship the card for whatever reason. I would drop every ESE right off at the counter if they had the capability to scan it right there. Maybe at some point they will.

[Blake050]

Originally Posted by deek05

Had one of these a few weeks ago. Tracking shows it bouncing around the buyers area for a week. Buyer asked for a refund. I told them to open item not received claim thru ebay. Buyer said ebay told them not to but just to ask for a refund. Was called an idiot and threats of negative feedback...got tired of it all. Refunded and blocked. It was a low $ card but still...

Post the username please.

[JeffG1954]

Originally Posted by CardClub2Elect

Ive noticed for me and it probably varies by every post office but I work in Boston everyday and my train station is right next to the main post office hub for Boston. I get scans there almost always. My local PO doesn't have scanners and uses a different hub than the Boston one and those are somewhat hit or miss. I try to bring all my ESE's to the Boston Hub which is actually more convenient than my local PO anyway.

I sell a small amount of cards for fun, I see it as an offshoot to the hobby for me. I really get anxious when an ESE never gets a scan and takes away from the enjoyment. I also enjoy seeing the scans of a sale as it travels across the country all the way to delivery. That first scan is so important though, it can be the only proof that you actually mailed the card. It's not about the refund or hassle to me, it's just more the small chance that someone thinks you just didn't want to ship the card for whatever reason. I would drop every ESE right off at the counter if they had the capability to scan it right there. Maybe at some point they will.

The good news is that an acceptance scan isn't necessary to be covered by the PIP insurance.....that bad news is that does not make a difference to your enjoyment of seeing the cross country scans. Personally I don't check the ESE scans until a buyer files a case or sends me a message about an item not received.