Hall of Famers We Are Watching in 2020

[Archangel1775]

Active players that debuted in 2018 or prior

Active Players that can retire tomorrow and get in:

Clayton Kershaw
Max Scherzer
Mike Trout
Mookie Betts
Freddie Freeman


At the doorstep:
Shohei Ohtani- Just needs to play two years to be eligible. He could retire at that point and get in.

Aaron Judge - If he finishes the year like he started and wins MVP, you cant keep him out no matter his counting stats.

Jacob DeGrom- It's been a rough 2 years. 2-3 years of consistent pitching and he should be good without question. Otherwise, its a coin flip as its difficult to gauge modern pitchers with their statistical limitations and injuries.

Juan Soto: Hard to believe he's in his Age 26 season with 38 WAR. Will likely accrue 100 WAR which puts him in the Top 35 Players of All-Time


Close out career successfully:

Giancarlo Stanton: 500 Home Runs or nothing
Jose Altuve
Salvador Perez: Eventually
Paul Goldschmidt
Bryce Harper
Manny Machado
Nolan Arenado
Jose Ramirez
Corey Seager
Francisco Lindor



I'd like to see more:

Ronald Acuna Jr.: IR
Xander Bogaerts: Disappeared in a stacked SD lineup
Cody Bellinger- Was on the path to greatness and a celebratory shoulder bump derailed that. Looking like the Kris Bryant path right now.
Carlos Correa: High WAR but nothing that stands out
Christian Yelich: Fell off quite a bit
Alex Bregman: Looking good with the Red Sox
Andrew McCutchen: 2500 Hits in order?
Gerrit Cole-IR
Chris Sale-IR

Hall of Very Good
Kris Bryant
Javier Baez
Trea Turner
JT Realmuto
Ketel Marte
Matt Olson
Matt Chapman
George Springer
Marcus Semien
Rafael Devers (Current drama could hurt him)


Looking Good (2019 Debut and afterwards):
Vladmir Guererro Jr.
Fernando Tatis Jr. (PED pop though)
Kyle Tucker
Yordan Alvarez
Pete Alonso: Probably going to need a lot of Home Runs
Austin Riley

Young Guns:
Bobby Witt Jr
Elly De La Cruz
Corbin Carrol
Gunnar Henderson
Julio Rodriguez

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

I am truly baffled by the people who think de Grom is either a lock or on the doorstep of the Hall of Fame.

Remember, Santana was kicked out of the HOF voting like a punk kid trying to sneak into a movie theater without a ticket.

At their peak, de Grom was way better than Santana. No arguments here. But their stats are close and Santana didn’t even sniff the Hall.

[panamamyers]

Ohtani is 100% in. Not on the doorstep.
He could retire today and be in.
Degrom needs to be down in the finish out his career well category. He needs 2-3 more cy you g vot getting type seasons.
Harper is on the doorstep.
Salvador Perez and Altuve are on the doorstep.

[Biohazarddfl]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

I am truly baffled by the people who think de Grom is either a lock or on the doorstep of the Hall of Fame.

Remember, Santana was kicked out of the HOF voting like a punk kid trying to sneak into a movie theater without a ticket.

At their peak, de Grom was way better than Santana. No arguments here. But their stats are close and Santana didn’t even sniff the Hall.

Santanta's best Fip is basically Degroms worst. They are not close. No one who watched both thanks that these players are close.

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[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by panamamyers

Ohtani is 100% in. Not on the doorstep.
He could retire today and be in.
Degrom needs to be down in the finish out his career well category. He needs 2-3 more cy you g vot getting type seasons.
Harper is on the doorstep.
Salvador Perez and Altuve are on the doorstep.

If Ohtani retired today he would 100% not be in because he has not played the minimum 10 years.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by Biohazarddfl

Santanta's best Fip is basically Degroms worst. They are not close. No one who watched both thanks that these players are close.

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I watched both and both were fantastic. But Johan was definitely better a lot longer. Not sure why you are using FIP as the definitive metric. But Santana led the league in FIP 3x while deGrom did that only once. Santana led the league in ERA 3 times and ERA+ three times. deGrom has only done it once. Santana led the league in Ks three times, deGrom twice. Santana was a far more reliable pitcher than deGrom exceeding 200 IP 5x (And one season of 199) while deGrom has only managed that 3x.

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by Biohazarddfl

Santanta's best Fip is basically Degroms worst. They are not close. No one who watched both thanks that these players are close.

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De Grom is better than Santana. We’re not arguing about that. I just don’t think de Grom will get into the Hall. I’m using Santana as an example. If Santana had been more well received by the voters, I would think de Grom would have a decent shot, but Santana was unceremoniously dismissed. So de Grom may stick around for a few ballots, but I don’t see how he gets elected in by the BWAA. That’s just my take.

[panamamyers]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

If Ohtani retired today he would 100% not be in because he has not played the minimum 10 years.

Tell that to Addie Joss.
If he for some reason could not continue and left baseball today...Ohtani would 100% be in.

[Biohazarddfl]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

I watched both and both were fantastic. But Johan was definitely better a lot longer. Not sure why you are using FIP as the definitive metric. But Santana led the league in FIP 3x while deGrom did that only once. Santana led the league in ERA 3 times and ERA+ three times. deGrom has only done it once. Santana led the league in Ks three times, deGrom twice. Santana was a far more reliable pitcher than deGrom exceeding 200 IP 5x (And one season of 199) while deGrom has only managed that 3x.

A lot longer? You are defending a guy that was essentially out of the league at 31 and showed no fight whatsoever. Why fip? Is that even a question? Johan isn't even in the same conversation. It's like comparing Drysdale to Koufax. No one believes this. The voters will not even blink about putting Degrom in.

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[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

If Ohtani retired today he would 100% not be in because he has not played the minimum 10 years.

Originally Posted by panamamyers

Tell that to Addie Joss.
If he for some reason could not continue and left baseball today...Ohtani would 100% be in.

I want to agree with Skip, but they’ve changed the rules for Ohtani before…

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by Biohazarddfl

A lot longer? You are defending a guy that was essentially out of the league at 31 and showed no fight whatsoever. Why fip? Is that even a question? Johan isn't even in the same conversation. It's like comparing Drysdale to Koufax. No one believes this. The voters will not even blink about putting Degrom in.

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Prepare yourself for some blinking, man! Even if he does get in eventually. There will be blinking.

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

But Johan was definitely better a lot longer. Not sure why you are using FIP as the definitive metric. But Santana led the league in FIP 3x while deGrom did that only once.

if you want to use FIP, Degrom has the best career FIP in the history of baseball lol (for pitchers that have pitched in last 100 years). followed by Koufax, Rivera, and Kershaw. He's going to cruise in

His 2021 1/2 season before he got hurt (which was the greatest peak in pitching hisotry) was the single greatest season for FIP in baseball history just above Christy Matthewson and Walter Johnson. Its insulting to mention his name next to Santana

[Biohazarddfl]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

if you want to use FIP, Degrom has the best career FIP in the history of baseball lol (for pitchers that have pitched in last 100 years). followed by Koufax, Rivera, and Kershaw. He's going to cruise in

His 2021 1/2 season before he got hurt (which was the greatest peak in pitching hisotry) was the single greatest season for FIP in baseball history just above Christy Matthewson and Walter Johnson. Its insulting to mention his name next to Santana

Majorly insulting. It's basically Kershaw and no one else. He pitched on the same team as Max Scherzer and no one cared about Max. All eyes always on Jake. That's a hall of fame. You just know it when you see it. Same goes for Shohei and Judge. No brainers.

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[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by panamamyers

Tell that to Addie Joss.
If he for some reason could not continue and left baseball today...Ohtani would 100% be in.

Joss didn’t get to 10 years because he died. Even then, it took him nearly 70 years to get in. Ohtani would not get in if he walked away today.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by Biohazarddfl

A lot longer? You are defending a guy that was essentially out of the league at 31 and showed no fight whatsoever. Why fip? Is that even a question? Johan isn't even in the same conversation. It's like comparing Drysdale to Koufax. No one believes this. The voters will not even blink about putting Degrom in.

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Yes, a lot longer. Johan pitched 42% more innings than deGrom and started 25% more games. That is a lot longer. It is harder sustaining their level of excellence over 2,000 IP than it is over 1,400.

Yes, why FIP? That’s a question. No one uses FIP as the definitive definition of who the greatest pitcher is of All-Time.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

if you want to use FIP, Degrom has the best career FIP in the history of baseball lol (for pitchers that have pitched in last 100 years). followed by Koufax, Rivera, and Kershaw. He's going to cruise in

His 2021 1/2 season before he got hurt (which was the greatest peak in pitching hisotry) was the single greatest season for FIP in baseball history just above Christy Matthewson and Walter Johnson. Its insulting to mention his name next to Santana

I have no interest in using FIP. I am not the one who brought it up. I just pointed out that even using FIP, Johan led the league 3x vs deGrom’s once. deGrom’s 2018 season was incredible. But that isn’t enough to get him elected on such a small body of work. If he were a closer, yes, he’d be a slam dunk with his career numbers. But he’s not. Inducting him today would be unprecedented. He probably has to pitch another 500-600 innings to get in.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by Biohazarddfl

Majorly insulting. It's basically Kershaw and no one else. He pitched on the same team as Max Scherzer and no one cared about Max. All eyes always on Jake. That's a hall of fame. You just know it when you see it. Same goes for Shohei and Judge. No brainers.

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Say what you will but there are dozens of guys with high peaks and accomplishments who haven’t gotten in. The high peak, short career Hall of Famer is a tough road. All three of those guys are on the HOF path, but if they retired today, Judge is the only one who’d stand a chance of getting in and even then there’d be a lot of crazy debate.

[Biohazarddfl]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

Yes, a lot longer. Johan pitched 42% more innings than deGrom and started 25% more games. That is a lot longer. It is harder sustaining their level of excellence over 2,000 IP than it is over 1,400.



Yes, why FIP? That’s a question. No one uses FIP as the definitive definition of who the greatest pitcher is of All-Time.

What are better stats to compare pitchers?

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[Biohazarddfl]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

Say what you will but there are dozens of guys with high peaks and accomplishments who haven’t gotten in. The high peak, short career Hall of Famer is a tough road. All three of those guys are on the HOF path, but if they retired today, Judge is the only one who’d stand a chance of getting in and even then there’d be a lot of crazy debate.

Who? Go on, please name them

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[mfw13]

Koufax is the modern era starter who has the fewest IP (2325.1).

DeGrom has to at least get to 2000 IP to have a shot.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by Biohazarddfl

What are better stats to compare pitchers?

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You didn’t answer the question. You’re the one who chose FIP.

Originally Posted by Biohazarddfl

Who? Go on, please name them

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You can do your own research but off the top of my head, Roger Maris, Eric Davis, George Foster, Johan Santana, Albert Belle, Troy Glaus, Ron Guidry, Rocky Colavito, Nomar Garciaparra, Teddy Higuera, Bret Saberhagen, Jimmy Wynn, Don Mattingly, Sal Bando, etc.

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

You didn’t answer the question. You’re the one who chose FIP.



You can do your own research but off the top of my head, Roger Maris, Eric Davis, George Foster, Johan Santana, Albert Belle, Troy Glaus, Ron Guidry, Rocky Colavito, Nomar Garciaparra, Teddy Higuera, Bret Saberhagen, Jimmy Wynn, Don Mattingly, Sal Bando, etc.

Skip you are being a bit disingenuous here. I agree with you that high peak short career is tough and more innings would help (especially since hes back to being one of best pitchers in baseball now if he can stay healthy) but you are vastly ignoring how good his peak was.

Mookie Betts on Jacob deGrom: “He’s pretty much the best. Maybe the best to ever pitch.” While Guidry Cy Young year was def amazing nobody was every saying yea he's the best to ever do it in the history of the game.


DeGrom 2021 season was the best to ever do it in the history of the game. Further guidry second best season of his carerr wouuld be Degrom's like 7th, its unfair to use the 2 in the same sentence

Saberhagen is a better comparison as he has a borderline HOF career with 2 Cy Young and 1 great year but again compare the 2. When Brett won his Cy Young he had was 6-7 K/9 peak DeGrom was what 11-13 range? Nobody ever watching him pitch is saying yea there's the best ever to do it.

The really only fair comparison is Koufax but thats not really fair to Koufax in terms of careers and accomplishments (or fair to DeGrom in terms of who has better stuff)

Maybee, Dizzy Dean but he's also in the HOF with under 2k innings

[Biohazarddfl]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

You didn’t answer the question. You’re the one who chose FIP.







You can do your own research but off the top of my head, Roger Maris, Eric Davis, George Foster, Johan Santana, Albert Belle, Troy Glaus, Ron Guidry, Rocky Colavito, Nomar Garciaparra, Teddy Higuera, Bret Saberhagen, Jimmy Wynn, Don Mattingly, Sal Bando, etc.

I chose fip because I think it's the best stat to compare pitchers. What would you use? Why is that such a tough question?

Further, are you serious with this list? Pull out the juicers and what are you left with? You honestly could look someone in the eye and say that Saberhagen is on a level with Degrom? Eric Davis had one season, what are we even talking about??? Mattingly faded, unfortunately. Jake did not fade. He has always been a completely dominant force and must-watch through age 37.

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[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by Biohazarddfl

I chose fip because I think it's the best stat to compare pitchers. What would you use? Why is that such a tough question?

there are lots of other good stats (modern starters only)

ERA: Degrom will be 1st all time soon (most likely)
ERA+: DeGrom is 1st all time
WHIP: DeGrom is 1st all time
K/9: Top 5 all time
K/BB ratiop: DeGrom is 1st all time
WAR/inning DeGrom is 1st all time

But we are comparing him to Ron Guidry and Brett Saberhagen

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

Skip you are being a bit disingenuous here. I agree with you that high peak short career is tough and more innings would help (especially since hes back to being one of best pitchers in baseball now if he can stay healthy) but you are vastly ignoring how good his peak was.

Mookie Betts on Jacob deGrom: “He’s pretty much the best. Maybe the best to ever pitch.” While Guidry Cy Young year was def amazing nobody was every saying yea he's the best to ever do it in the history of the game.


DeGrom 2021 season was the best to ever do it in the history of the game. Further guidry second best season of his carerr wouuld be Degrom's like 7th, its unfair to use the 2 in the same sentence

Saberhagen is a better comparison as he has a borderline HOF career with 2 Cy Young and 1 great year but again compare the 2. When Brett won his Cy Young he had was 6-7 K/9 peak DeGrom was what 11-13 range? Nobody ever watching him pitch is saying yea there's the best ever to do it.

The really only fair comparison is Koufax but thats not really fair to Koufax in terms of careers and accomplishments (or fair to DeGrom in terms of who has better stuff)

Maybee, Dizzy Dean but he's also in the HOF with under 2k innings

All fair. I think part of the issue is we are all talking about multiple things simultaneously.

The best comp for Jacob deGrom is absolutely a subset of the greatest pitchers ever. In fact, if you look at Walter Johnson’s first 1,400 IP, deGrom’s career looks eerily similar to that. And Walter is probably the greatest pitcher in history. That’s how great deGrom has been.

But there’s still a standard of excellence that requires quantity. Dwight Gooden’s career after 1985 was one of the greatest beginnings in history. However, if he had retired after that season and they waived the 10 year requirement, he’s not going in. Somewhere between that amount of pitching and Walter Johnson’s amount is the answer. In my opinion, the BBWAA would require more than 1,418 IP.

I love that he’s picked up where he left off and I hope he gives us 2-3 more solid seasons (they don’t even need to be great). But if he gives us 2-3 seasons of 40 IP, I don’t think the BBWAA will think it’s enough.