Has your PSA 10 Gem rate for modern bulk submissions changed dramatically this year?

[jbettis32]

Originally Posted by inaka

Personally, I think the part in bold is an assumption that is likely incorrect. Cert numbers, like PSA order numbers, are sequential. So it would be really odd if the cert numbers right after yours from a different order are from the same grader.

If a grader is given your order, and completes it, it seems more likely that the next cert numbers issued would likely be from a different grader who just completed their order by and so on. If sequential cert numbers from different orders were all from the same grader, it would then mean that all grades are completed and then submitted as a batch dump at the end of their shift. That would make no sense to me, and the graders likely just click the grades on a screen card-by-card, and then complete each order-by-order.

I've already seen enough examples from YouTube PSA reveals from very experienced graders that most definitely shows that PSA grading has become far more inconsistent and especially tough on 80s/90s cards and vintage.

NO, as I told, I was submitting my cards through group sub, and my cards were grouped with other cards by other submitters from the same order. I was not doing the personal sub though. I was sending for TCG cards, and those cards I checked for lower gem rate were TCG too; therefore, they should be graded by the same grader as the same order. I knew the order was completed, until I saw the sports cards were shown up.

[inaka]

Originally Posted by jbettis32

NO, as I told, I was submitting my cards through group sub, and my cards were grouped with other cards by other submitters from the same order. I was not doing the personal sub though. I was sending for TCG cards, and those cards I checked for lower gem rate were TCG too; therefore, they should be graded by the same grader as the same order. I knew the order was completed, until I saw the sports cards were shown up.

Gotcha, but even with a group sub, there's no guarantee it's the same grader, especially if a group sub has a mix of TCG, sports, vintage, or whatever. The sequential cert numbers don't confirm it was the same grader.

PSA's grading most definitely has become far more stringent based on hundreds of examples of people here and on YouTube showing that orders from experienced graders getting slammed. So I have to disagree that with anyone that thinks PSA's standards in general have not changed too much. They have, They've dramatically taken a nose dive where they don't even know how to accurately grade certain segments like 80s/90s paper cards and it's a crap shoot with vintage.

[newfiesig]

Has anyone received any subs lately? Wondering if I'm going to get destroyed...

[metsandweezer]

Originally Posted by newfiesig

Has anyone received any subs lately? Wondering if I'm going to get destroyed...

57% gem rate on an order that popped last week.

[bojesphob]

Originally Posted by newfiesig

Has anyone received any subs lately? Wondering if I'm going to get destroyed...

My sub that just got grades was only 38% 10s. Of course, I knew several weren't going to get 10s, so I'd have over 50% had I only sent in the ones I thought would get the 10.

[newfiesig]

Originally Posted by metsandweezer

57% gem rate on an order that popped last week.

That sounds pretty good, actually.

[newfiesig]

Originally Posted by bojesphob

My sub that just got grades was only 38% 10s. Of course, I knew several weren't going to get 10s, so I'd have over 50% had I only sent in the ones I thought would get the 10.

Is that normally the percentage that you get?

[bojesphob]

Originally Posted by newfiesig

Is that normally the percentage that you get?

Is the first sub over 6 cards I've done.. so I guess that's a yes? Lol first sub was 6 cards, 1 8, 1 9, and 4 10s. Second sub was 1 card that was a 10. I have another sub of 26 about to hit grading that has only 2 I'm expecting to get lower than a 10, so we'll see how that one goes

[The_Reverend]

Originally Posted by newfiesig

Has anyone received any subs lately? Wondering if I'm going to get destroyed...

My last submission, TCG, I went 17/31 and 10/31 10/9. I will take that for sure.

[DaBaddestHic]

I just got back the grades for my first ever solo submission to PSA (or any grading company). I've done a few group orders before through BGS, and sent some cards to PSA through nashville sports cards a few years ago.

I sent in 12 cards for value bulk. 11 mint, 1 gem. Not great.

To compare, the five cards I sent in a few years ago came back 3 gems, 1 mint, and one near mint. The 8 being a cryotocurrency card from 2018 A&G X, which is a tough card to grade.

Look, I'm a realist. I didn't expect 12 gems. And I tried to be cautious. I listened to advice to only submit cards that were worth at least $100 as a 9, so that saves me some. But a 8% gem rate is still really bad.

I'm obviously not a seasoned grader, but I spent a lot of time picking out cards, researching their sale prices in 9/10 grades, and then examining them for flaws. I think I rejected around 10 of the cards I originally picked out for flaws myself. Pretty much, I refused to send in anything I could see a flaw in, as I expected PSA would find things I didn't, and I didn't want two or more strikes against a card. The one exception was a 2015 Topps Chrome Update black refractor of Francisco Lindor that I knew was off center but I still wanted slabbed.

The best thing I can think is that the new stricter centering standards really hurt me. A lot of my cards were on the edge of 55/45, at least the best I could tell. Which sucks, because if I'd sent these cards in last year I might have done better.

This was mainly an experiment to see if grading was worth my time. And with these results, it's not. I don't have a lot of free time these days, and I sunk a lot into doing this submission. I had two cards I didn't send in because they would need a higher grading level and I didn't want to pay that until I saw how I did with the other cards. Might as well just assume those would be 9s as well and not bother lol.

In the end, I don't even like grading that much. As in, I buy raw cards for my PC in most cases. And I prefer BGS cases if I have to have a slab, and having subgrades, but that's a waste of money these days. I only graded these cards because I wanted to sell some of them and didn't want to leave money on the table. Maybe a 9 still sells better than a raw in some cases, and at least I don't have to deal with people complaining about condition later. But having my cards held up at PSA for 3-4 months is bad too.

Overall, 1/10 experience. I'll leave grading to you experts with the 50% gem rates. I'm pretty much out of cards worth sending in now anyway haha.

[hausem06]

I usually mail my submissions and they go to California. This time I dropped my sub off at a show directly to PSA and it went to New Jersey. Got beat up. Went 9/20 on 10’s. Even got a PSA 6.

I’m usually 70-90% 10’s

Never dropping my sub at a show again. I’ll take my chances at the California PSA site.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The_Reverend]

Originally Posted by hausem06

I usually mail my submissions and they go to California. This time I dropped my sub off at a show directly to PSA and it went to New Jersey. Got beat up. Went 9/20 on 10’s. Even got a PSA 6.

I’m usually 70-90% 10’s

Never dropping my sub at a show again. I’ll take my chances at the California PSA site.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wow! Glad I did not use the drop off service offered in Dallas.

[FT35]

Originally Posted by metsandweezer

57% gem rate on an order that popped last week.

Just to confirm—this was a modern only order? Nothing ultra modern?

[jimz]

Weirdly, my submission last week came back 2/9. Both 10s are moderns. No ultra-modern got over the 9 threshold. One (2024 A&G 140 HANK AARON MINI-FRAMED CYAN PRINTING PLATE 1/1) got a N0: AUTHENTIC. Not altered, just like a no-grade. I'm gonna send an email to figure out what happened.

But the other 6 are all PSA 9s besides one 8.5. I have another card that would get upcharged normally that I submitted express in the same package and it's slower than the regular special. Now I'm genuinely afraid that it'll come back a 5 or something even though it's a redemption that I sent in as it was sent to me.But it's running 2 business days behind at this point and still at the assembly stage so, we'll see.

Oh and all my subs are to California. I'm in NV so sending it to NJ seems a bit ridiculous. I think the market will adjust, but it'll take time. Part of this was that we can pretty much pinpoint to the exact time they decided to turn up the stinge-meter on grades, and we weren't informed ahead of time.

[jewcer2k5]

23/29 on my last sub.

5/7 on the one before.

the eight that did not get a 10 got 9's.

[jimz]

Just realized that the reason why my card got a N0: the framed minis from A&G have a tendency to shift, and they.... slabbed it with the mini shifted,

Even though you just need to tap the side of the card 3-4 times gently and it'll get back into place.

And this isn't some new thing, and 2024 A&Gs have been out long enough for me to come to the only conclusion possible here: the grader doesn't have any experience with this particular set/series and also, didn't/couldn't consult with someone more senior.

But there's no way for me to pin the mini inside of the card down without altering the card. Gravity alone can shift the mini. But I have more framed A&Gs and they all have this feature, and they can all be remedied with a few simple taps. I can't control the package's movements, but the grader should know better. Actually, I've had a similar card graded without issue, months ago. The intake photo show a slight space between the mini and the frame. The final product doesn't.

It really doesn't take a genius, except at PSA, I guess. Angel Stadium parking attendant gig pay is still 50 cents higher I think.

Oh also I noticed that they edit grader's notes without notifying the customer. Not all of them, in fact only a couple, but still, the card is back in my possession, where are the extra notes coming from?

[metsandweezer]

Originally Posted by FT35

Just to confirm—this was a modern only order? Nothing ultra modern?

Ultra modern. There was a low pop 2013 Kelce RC Auto that got a PSA 10.

[CorndogWasp]

No offense to all people on Earth but ya’ll ain’t good enough to grade 1.5 million cards a month and get high gem rates, also the printers probablydon’t print that many PSA 10s a month anyway because quality control and the companies that make the cards are garbage.

I’m not saying I’m good enough but who do you people think you are?

It’s a fair question.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by CorndogWasp

No offense to all people on Earth but ya’ll ain’t good enough to grade 1.5 million cards a month and get high gem rates, also the printers probablydon’t print that many PSA 10s a month anyway because quality control and the companies that make the cards are garbage.

I’m not saying I’m good enough but who do you people think you are?

It’s a fair question.

[FT35]

Originally Posted by metsandweezer

Ultra modern. There was a low pop 2013 Kelce RC Auto that got a PSA 10.

Yeah I think ultra modern is a separate category. I know things might be a little different now but when I talk about modern, I’m talking 1980-2018 (or whatever the cutoff year is now). Anything ultra modern is excluded—anything vintage (1980 prior) is excluded.

When I report low gem rates (I’m talking single-digit gem rates on some BULK orders), I’m only talking about the modern era—mostly 1980-2010. That’s where the dramatic changes have been on how orders are graded. I’ve had normal ultra modern subs with decent gem rates in the last 2 years but seen ALL modern orders of mine completely trashed by graders.

[larry25]

Originally Posted by FT35

Yeah I think ultra modern is a separate category. I know things might be a little different now but when I talk about modern, I’m talking 1980-2018 (or whatever the cutoff year is now). Anything ultra modern is excluded—anything vintage (1980 prior) is excluded.

When I report low gem rates (I’m talking single-digit gem rates on some BULK orders), I’m only talking about the modern era—mostly 1980-2010. That’s where the dramatic changes have been on how orders are graded. I’ve had normal ultra modern subs with decent gem rates in the last 2 years but seen ALL modern orders of mine completely trashed by graders.

Must not be that many of us grading these years in bulk, because what you say is 100% true, TRASHED, like 3 x 10s in a 50 or 60 or even 100 card order that I think could ALL gem, and it happens over and over and over again. The only saving grace is that maybe one in every 10 or one in every 20 orders is totally lit up with 10s the way I think they all should be, and it's a real money maker when that happens, especially if it's one of the better orders. Should happen more... A LOT MORE... but for various reasons, it doesn't. Bottom line, they're most often just being overconservative dicks not wanting to let us print our own money. They know they have that power. They know they can go 9 or 10 without really any repercussions one way or the other. They just don't go 10... at least until word comes down from on high that grades have been too shitty lately, so start giving out more 10s. I know this happens. Been doing this long enough to see and experience that pendulum every few months. It's a complete effin joke... a silly game with silly rules and some obvious and some not-so-obvious tricks.

[FT35]

Originally Posted by larry25

Must not be that many of us grading these years in bulk, because what you say is 100% true, TRASHED, like 3 x 10s in a 50 or 60 or even 100 card order that I think could ALL gem, and it happens over and over and over again. The only saving grace is that maybe one in every 10 or one in every 20 orders is totally lit up with 10s the way I think they all should be, and it's a real money maker when that happens, especially if it's one of the better orders. Should happen more... A LOT MORE... but for various reasons, it doesn't. Bottom line, they're most often just being overconservative dicks not wanting to let us print our own money. They know they have that power. They know they can go 9 or 10 without really any repercussions one way or the other. They just don't go 10... at least until word comes down from on high that grades have been too shitty lately, so start giving out more 10s. I know this happens. Been doing this long enough to see and experience that pendulum every few months. It's a complete effin joke... a silly game with silly rules and some obvious and some not-so-obvious tricks.

I think the kicker was the video where the guy sent in 200 9’s from a huge order and 80 of them got 10’s. Can’t remember the actual numbers but it’s not too far up in the thread. That’s just pure evidence of deliberate 10 control on the first order.

I can’t grade currently. I can’t really justify $20 for someone to deliberately devalue my card. But it’s not $20–it’s $40, $60+ per card as you need to send it in 3+ times to get it graded correctly apparently. My orders used to be very predictable because the grading scale was used to determine the grade. Now the people are simply deciding what grade a card gets. A gem-caliber card can get anywhere from a 4 to a 9–anything but the 10 that it is. I’m putting my money where my mouth is and not grading until I see things go back to the way they used to grade. If that turns out to be never, I’m saving a ton of money.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by FT35

I think the kicker was the video where the guy sent in 200 9’s from a huge order and 80 of them got 10’s. Can’t remember the actual numbers but it’s not too far up in the thread. That’s just pure evidence of deliberate 10 control on the first order.

I can’t grade currently. I can’t really justify $20 for someone to deliberately devalue my card. But it’s not $20–it’s $40, $60+ per card as you need to send it in 3+ times to get it graded correctly apparently. My orders used to be very predictable because the grading scale was used to determine the grade. Now the people are simply deciding what grade a card gets. A gem-caliber card can get anywhere from a 4 to a 9–anything but the 10 that it is. I’m putting my money where my mouth is and not grading until I see things go back to the way they used to grade. If that turns out to be never, I’m saving a ton of money.

10 control or just inconsistent grading and QA?

Any gem worthy card should ONLY get a 9-10. Ive mentioned before that I had about a thousand cards of a condition sensitive card. I only picked out 100 of the best copies. I was getting 6–8 gems in a few 15-20 lots I submitted. The last two orders were only 1 gem. For so long many of you were complaining about harsher grades, well I didn't see it until this last and most recent change to their grading standards.

Anything with an 8 or less is likely damaged or was damaged by them! If you resub and it comes back a 9 or 10 then they probably missed the damage!

[FT35]

Originally Posted by mc1

10 control or just inconsistent grading and QA?

Any gem worthy card should ONLY get a 9-10. Ive mentioned before that I had about a thousand cards of a condition sensitive card. I only picked out 100 of the best copies. I was getting 6–8 gems in a few 15-20 lots I submitted. The last two orders were only 1 gem. For so long many of you were complaining about harsher grades, well I didn't see it until this last and most recent change to their grading standards.

Anything with an 8 or less is likely damaged or was damaged by them! If you resub and it comes back a 9 or 10 then they probably missed the damage!

They’re definitely more inconsistent (AI??), but the most noticeable things missing from the modern subs—are the 10’s! When experienced graders are cherry-picking cards and going for 10’s exclusively, you’d expect there to be a large chunk of them in a bulk order. But 10’s are the least common grade in a bulk modern order no matter how much the cards have been vetted. That’s actually been the best sign of consistency—a consistent deliberate resistance to put a 10 on a slab. But if you crack out and keep resubbing the same non-10 cards, they slow trickle back to you as 10’s over multiple subs because the next time, that card might be one of the “allowed 10’s.”

$$$$$

[bub838]

I've been around 70% and that hasn't changed with recent subs. I don't use a loupe and I'm lenient with what I'll send in.