Skenes to the big leagues

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by boxbuster7

he has been the best pitcher in the national league

Andrew Abbott says Hi.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by boxbuster7

Tell me you don't watch baseball without telling me

outside of yesterdays start he has been the best pitcher in the national league

He has lived up to the hype and anybody selling his cards right now to buy chase burns or jacob miz will regret it in 5 years

The Felix Hernandez syndrome certainly doesn’t help his card prices. They still have quite a ways to drop as Miami referred to. I can’t see any return to his peak prices until he wins a third cy young and becomes the next hobby scherzer/verlander/kershaw.

It’s gonna be a long wait for investorz.

Good thing Dick’s can take the hit and bag hold as long as any of us.

[boxbuster7]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Andrew Abbott says Hi.

by the end of this season skenes will have better stats than him

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by boxbuster7

by the end of this season skenes will have better stats than him

Since we are exercising our clairvoyance, by the end of the season Skenes will be recovering from Tommy John.

[boxbuster7]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Since we are exercising our clairvoyance, by the end of the season Skenes will be recovering from Tommy John.

I don't even need to look up Abbotts FIP to tell you he has gotten lucky

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by boxbuster7

I don't even need to look up Abbotts FIP to tell you he has gotten lucky

Oh, you're one of those people who thinks pretend stats are real stats. Nevermind, carry on.

What some people interpret as luck, others might call knowing how to get hitters out.

[boxbuster7]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Oh, you're one of those people who thinks pretend stats are real stats. Nevermind, carry on.

What some people interpret as luck, others might call knowing how to get hitters out.

Do you really think Andrew Abbott is going to finish the season with a era under 2?

[kipgen]

I can see the argument for Skenes still being overpriced and his cards coming down

On the other hand he's the favorite for the NL cy young, will probably finish with at least a few MVP votes, and an all star. As a sophomore pitcher.

Why exactly is he considered overpriced? Should his prices come down? What more could he be doing to make his prices justified (outside of winning games which isn't really in his control)

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by boxbuster7

Do you really think Andrew Abbott is going to finish the season with a era under 2?

It's not likely. But I don't think Skenes will either. I think Abbott has just as good a shot at it as Skenes does, though.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by kipgen

I can see the argument for Skenes still being overpriced and his cards coming down

On the other hand he's the favorite for the NL cy young, will probably finish with at least a few MVP votes, and an all star. As a sophomore pitcher.

Why exactly is he considered overpriced? Should his prices come down? What more could he be doing to make his prices justified (outside of winning games which isn't really in his control)

Hate to say it but wins is one of the sexiest things a pitcher can have for the hobby, and maybe strikeouts a close second.

The hobby doesn’t buy on nerd stats, they need something simple.

Card prices aren’t going to move for a pitcher with losing records every year no matter how good he pitches.

[boxbuster7]

Originally Posted by kipgen

I can see the argument for Skenes still being overpriced and his cards coming down

On the other hand he's the favorite for the NL cy young, will probably finish with at least a few MVP votes, and an all star. As a sophomore pitcher.

Why exactly is he considered overpriced? Should his prices come down? What more could he be doing to make his prices justified (outside of winning games which isn't really in his control)

Because all these knuckleheads sold all their skenes cards last year to buy more wax

[Cardsareus84]

Hunter Brown just going under the radar and is better than Skenes so far this year.

[jhssketchcards]

He does lead in some key stats but having to determine a players stardom or greatness using calculus doesn’t add up to hobby darling.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Hate to say it but wins is one of the sexiest things a pitcher can have for the hobby, and maybe strikeouts a close second.

The hobby doesn’t buy on nerd stats, they need something simple.

Card prices aren’t going to move for a pitcher with losing records every year no matter how good he pitches.

wins far far less important the velocity when it comes to pitchers prices (and obviously true for pitching as well).

Getting on pitching ninja as often as possible moves cards prices for pitchers, not wins and losses

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by Cardsareus84

Hunter Brown just going under the radar and is better than Skenes so far this year.

loaded up on him + 800 for Cy Young before today.

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Oh, you're one of those people who thinks pretend stats are real stats. Nevermind, carry on.

What some people interpret as luck, others might call knowing how to get hitters out.

Honest question, if you take a pitcher like Martin Perez who didn't really know how to get hitters out for 10 years, then had a great year, then sucked for 5 years again, do you think its more likely he got lucky for that 1 year or that he really knew how to get hitters out for that 1 year but didn't really know how to for the other 14 years of his career.

This isn't a knock on Andrew Abbot, I think he's very good and one of few pitchers that doesn't throw 100 I've bought cards of butting things like BABIP and BARISP are very real stats that bring with it a very real amount of variance and why things like xERA are likely far more reliable stats then ERA etc. That being said Abbot is also top 15 in xERA so he's the real deal

[PeteD]

Chew on these stats. In 4 of his losses the score was:

3-0 twice
1-0
2-1

In 3 of his wins the score was:

2-1 (twice)
3-0

He easily could be 8-3 instead of 4-7.

[green4407]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

wins far far less important the velocity when it comes to pitchers prices (and obviously true for pitching as well).

Getting on pitching ninja as often as possible moves cards prices for pitchers, not wins and losses

You heard it here first. Sell those Clayton Kershaw cards and go all in on Mason Miller and Joel Zumaya.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

wins far far less important the velocity when it comes to pitchers prices (and obviously true for pitching as well).

Getting on pitching ninja as often as possible moves cards prices for pitchers, not wins and losses

I should just forget about that noodle arm Greg Maddux.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

wins far far less important the velocity when it comes to pitchers prices (and obviously true for pitching as well).

Getting on pitching ninja as often as possible moves cards prices for pitchers, not wins and losses

Originally Posted by PeteD

Chew on these stats. In 4 of his losses the score was:

3-0 twice
1-0
2-1

In 3 of his wins the score was:

2-1 (twice)
3-0

He easily could be 8-3 instead of 4-7.

I found this article relevant to this discussion.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...ores-analytics

[corockies]

When you see the pedestrian prices paid for nice cards of Randy Johnson, Greg Maddux, and Pedro Martinez then realize what Skenes actually has to do to match any one of those 3 for a career based on his card prices, you soon conclude that his current high prices have no way of being sustainable long term.

I kinda want to see what happens to his card prices if he and Dunne break up. I have a feeling she alone props up his market.

[Oriole Way]

Originally Posted by corockies

When you see the pedestrian prices paid for nice cards of Randy Johnson, Greg Maddux, and Pedro Martinez then realize what Skenes actually has to do to match any one of those 3 for a career based on his card prices, you soon conclude that his current high prices have no way of being sustainable long term.

I kinda want to see what happens to his card prices if he and Dunne break up. I have a feeling she alone props up his market.

I get your overall point, but I also don't think it's worth comparing those 80's/90's Hall of Fame pitchers to Skenes (or any modern pitchers) because none of those guys had pack pulled rookie autos available at any point. If there had ever been a Greg Maddux Bowman 1st gold auto PSA 10, it would sell for a TON of money.

I think that's an important factor that everyone who trashes modern player vs. vintage/junk wax HOFer prices doesn't take into account, or wants to ignore to prove their point.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Oriole Way

I get your overall point, but I also don't think it's worth comparing those 80's/90's Hall of Fame pitchers to Skenes (or any modern pitchers) because none of those guys had pack pulled rookie autos available at any point. If there had ever been a Greg Maddux Bowman 1st gold auto PSA 10, it would sell for a TON of money.

I think that's an important factor that everyone who trashes modern player vs. vintage/junk wax HOFer prices doesn't take into account, or wants to ignore to prove their point.

It's not about comparing a Greg Maddux rookie card price to a Paul Skenes rookie card price. It's about comparing them to the top hitters of each respective era. Those guys sell for a fraction of the top hitters of the 80s/90s, whereas Skenes sells for more than just about anyone. The theory being, if he turns into the next Randy Johnson with his career, he'll probably eventually sell for less than the top hitters of this era, which means a regression in prices.

[corockies]

Originally Posted by Oriole Way

I get your overall point, but I also don't think it's worth comparing those 80's/90's Hall of Fame pitchers to Skenes (or any modern pitchers) because none of those guys had pack pulled rookie autos available at any point. If there had ever been a Greg Maddux Bowman 1st gold auto PSA 10, it would sell for a TON of money.

I think that's an important factor that everyone who trashes modern player vs. vintage/junk wax HOFer prices doesn't take into account, or wants to ignore to prove their point.

You can easily reverse that argument and say that Skenes doesn't have any Essential Credentials or Precious Metal Gems cards. The hobby has evolved to have more variety, but you can't dismiss older players simply because they didn't have auto. RCs. At the end of the day all pitchers stats wise will be compared to the greats of all eras.

[jmarascojr]

Skenes is turning into our generation's Walter Johnson, amazing pitcher no run support...