Patrick Mahomes Prices

[JohnnyHatesJazz]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Considering the lack of NFL level wide receivers, I'm at least happy to see that Mahomes is 5th in the NFL in QBR, which is a far superior metric than QBR rating. Only an absolute rube would think QB rating is a better indication in today's game.

The list of guys below him on the list is impressive:

Mayfield
Herbert
Hurts
Stafford

Lamar and Goff above him still have a game to go tonight.

Are you happy to see his 59% completion percentage? Pretty terrible especially when you consider he’s trying to dink and dunk his way to victory.

[JWBlue]

I thought Mahomes looked good last night.

QBR and RTG numbers were pretty mediocre.

I still like QBR though and believe there is some merit to RTG.

[TSonn]

Backwards passes were super weird. Not sure if the Giants pass rush was messing up the timing or if the offense was just out of sync on those plays. Hope we never see those again.

I liked that Mahomes tried to push the ball deep even when it wasn't wide open last night. Felt like he was saying he was tired of the dink and dunk - especially since it wasn't working like it worked last year - and he knew he had to mix it up. The passes weren't pretty (aside from the back to back throws to Thornton), but I expect that to get so much better when Worthy and Rice come back.

[Earlsnake07]

Originally Posted by TSonn

Backwards passes were super weird. Not sure if the Giants pass rush was messing up the timing or if the offense was just out of sync on those plays. Hope we never see those again.

I liked that Mahomes tried to push the ball deep even when it wasn't wide open last night. Felt like he was saying he was tired of the dink and dunk - especially since it wasn't working like it worked last year - and he knew he had to mix it up. The passes weren't pretty (aside from the back to back throws to Thornton), but I expect that to get so much better when Worthy and Rice come back.

Absolutely....when there is no threat of a team to go deep, CB & LB start walking in and sitting for underneath routes. Hopefully this will continue because it will also open up the running game a bit also - which is desperately needed.

[imbluestreak23]

The stat of 1st and 2nd down yards per play = 3 3rd down yards per play = 8 is insane.

It's Patty and that's about it. Have to survive 3 more weeks

[TSonn]

Hope KC is exploring other kicking options. I don't trust Butker to make any FG or XP at this point.

[2010GBPackers]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Considering the lack of NFL level wide receivers, I'm at least happy to see that Mahomes is 5th in the NFL in QBR, which is a far superior metric than QBR rating. Only an absolute rube would think QB rating is a better indication in today's game.

The list of guys below him on the list is impressive:

Mayfield
Herbert
Hurts
Stafford

Lamar and Goff above him still have a game to go tonight.

I agree QBR is an enhanced rating system, but I believe it still has its flaws. Plus, to be fair, it is called passer rating, so it rates QBs on passing alone.

There are a few discrepancies that I take issue with when it comes to QBR. To be fair, the exact calculations ESPN uses are top-secret, but there are some areas where I think they are missing useful inputs.

The first is that it gives undue weight to running yards by the QB I'll give some examples: a) A running back rushing through the line, and a tackle or two, is completely different than what a QB typically sees, which is usually an open field with defenders yards from them. b) Does the metric account for a QB progressing through their reads, then taking off when nothing's available vs. rushing through their progressions, missing open players for a pass, and rushing prematurely? I don't believe QBR sees those plays differently.

The second is accuracy. Does ESPN assign even weight to these incompletions - a) tight coverage and the QB lays it out so only the WR could catch it, but the connection misses and it's incomplete vs. b) receiver is wide-open 40 yards downfield and QB over- or under-throws the receiver, leading to an incompletion.

There's many other scenarios that I wonder about as well, but until ESPN releases their so-called formula, how do we know it's accurate at all?

Tyrod Taylor leads the NFL in QBR, btw.

[blackbears86]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

I agree QBR is an enhanced rating system, but I believe it still has its flaws. Plus, to be fair, it is called passer rating, so it rates QBs on passing alone.

There are a few discrepancies that I take issue with when it comes to QBR. To be fair, the exact calculations ESPN uses are top-secret, but there are some areas where I think they are missing useful inputs.

The first is that it gives undue weight to running yards by the QB I'll give some examples: a) A running back rushing through the line, and a tackle or two, is completely different than what a QB typically sees, which is usually an open field with defenders yards from them. b) Does the metric account for a QB progressing through their reads, then taking off when nothing's available vs. rushing through their progressions, missing open players for a pass, and rushing prematurely? I don't believe QBR sees those plays differently.

The second is accuracy. Does ESPN assign even weight to these incompletions - a) tight coverage and the QB lays it out so only the WR could catch it, but the connection misses and it's incomplete vs. b) receiver is wide-open 40 yards downfield and QB over- or under-throws the receiver, leading to an incompletion.

There's many other scenarios that I wonder about as well, but until ESPN releases their so-called formula, how do we know it's accurate at all?

Tyrod Taylor leads the NFL in QBR, btw.

small sample size, but if tyrod taylor leads the NFL in QBR, it's hard to put a lot of stock in it.

[imbluestreak23]

QBR is the best available QB metric.

1) Tyrod Taylor does NOT lead the NFL in QBR. This is not true.
2) 2 of the top 4 QBs in QB rating are Carson Wentz and Marcus Mariota, both having played one game each. Josh Allen is 7th and Justin Herbert 9th. Yeah, flawed.

[JohnnyHatesJazz]

QBR is only good for pumpers and delusional investors.

[pejc300]

Does anyone else think they need a new offensive coordinator?

[JohnnyHatesJazz]

Originally Posted by pejc300

Does anyone else think they need a new offensive coordinator?

Did anybody ever ask that of the great quarterbacks?

Joe, tom, Peyton, Dan, Rodgers?

No. But for Patrick it’s the oc’s fault.

[boxbuster7]

Originally Posted by JohnnyHatesJazz

Did anybody ever ask that of the great quarterbacks?

Joe, tom, Peyton, Dan, Rodgers?

No. But for Patrick it’s the oc’s fault.

bro you might honestly be the biggest troll in this thread.

you've been wrong for the last 5 years and should honestly stop posting because it is abundantly clear that you have not watched 1 chiefs snap this season.

[JohnnyHatesJazz]

Originally Posted by boxbuster7

bro you might honestly be the biggest troll in this thread.

you've been wrong for the last 5 years and should honestly stop posting because it is abundantly clear that you have not watched 1 chiefs snap this season.

Wrong about what?

The correlation between kelce’ decline and mahomes decline?

I’ve made millions in this hobby and it’s not by being a dipshit.

[blackbears86]

Originally Posted by imbluestreak23

QBR is the best available QB metric.

1) Tyrod Taylor does NOT lead the NFL in QBR. This is not true.
2) 2 of the top 4 QBs in QB rating are Carson Wentz and Marcus Mariota, both having played one game each. Josh Allen is 7th and Justin Herbert 9th. Yeah, flawed.

Agree.

I like QBR, but like others have said, it does favor the running QB's.

[Delta5]

It's pathetic when mahomes couldn't come up with the W so their fans now cling into QBR

[KardsC1]

I’ve seen enough..I’m one of mahomes biggest fan..have a few grails..but watching chiefs lately , while watching ravens and bills play..it’s a different ball game…it’s not like bills or ravens have studs on WRs..but those QBs always throws dimes into their players ..while mahomes has been throwing miracle throws..I really hope they get some mojo with worthy n rice

[JohnnyHatesJazz]

Originally Posted by KardsC1

I’ve seen enough..I’m one of mahomes biggest fan..have a few grails..but watching chiefs lately , while watching ravens and bills play..it’s a different ball game…it’s not like bills or ravens have studs on WRs..but those QBs always throws dimes into their players ..while mahomes has been throwing miracle throws..I really hope they get some mojo with worthy n rice

Look I bust his chops on here and give everybody crap but mahomes has a couple big things going for him.

Reid is still one of the best offensive playcallers in history.

Spags is one of the best defensive coaches in history.

Mahomes may be like Troy aikman for the next several years but a ring is a ring. Get to 5 and he passes Montana. That’s why I’ve been picking up Mahomes cards even still here and there. Also the fact that there’s not much downside as far as I can tell.

[KardsC1]

This idea that Reid is some magical play caller is so absurd ..chiefs players barely get open …sure he’s good but he’s overrated ..the lack of changing plays also in the SB is also Reid to blame

[JohnnyHatesJazz]

Originally Posted by KardsC1

This idea that Reid is some magical play caller is so absurd ..chiefs players barely get open …sure he’s good but he’s overrated ..the lack of changing plays also in the SB is also Reid to blame

The guy knows offense about as good as anybody in the game today. He’s the guy that traded up to select Mahomes and deserves a lot of credit for that alone. He’s not perfect but who is. Even bill walsh had a shelf life. Hell he pushed for the bills to select Jp losman. Nobody’s perfect.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by blackbears86

[/B]

Agree.

I like QBR, but like others have said, it does favor the running QB's.

So wait til you learn something funny about Josh Allen....

[JWBlue]

Surprised the Chiefs receivers are not brought up in here frequently.

They have to be towards bottom of the league in terms of talent.

A bunch of castoffs and Worthy who is overrated and now playing hurt.

[Delta5]

Chiefs getting the most prime time slots so the world can see how putrid their offense is lol

[2010GBPackers]

Originally Posted by imbluestreak23

QBR is the best available QB metric.

1) Tyrod Taylor does NOT lead the NFL in QBR. This is not true.
2) 2 of the top 4 QBs in QB rating are Carson Wentz and Marcus Mariota, both having played one game each. Josh Allen is 7th and Justin Herbert 9th. Yeah, flawed.

Uuuhhh, yes, it is.

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...25/passing.htm

[dantheman514]

Originally Posted by pejc300

Does anyone else think they need a new offensive coordinator?

I have been thinking this as well, which makes me wonder what Eric Bieniemy is up to these days. It just feels like the offense needs some juice, some new life pumped into it. The Chiefs offense just feels different than other teams in the league, and that cannot just be because of the low quality of WRs.