Your 2025 AL MVP will be....?

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by SethMurphy

I don't consider a Platinum Glove to be an award worth using to determine someone's value being greater.



Anything that includes a fan vote isn't a metric to say he was the best defensive player. Gold Glove catcher is fine. But Platinum Glove includes a popularity contest

Hahaha! Fan voting. SMH.

[SoCalsFinest]

Originally Posted by Nostalgia

Judge gets walked in those situations.

Another IBB just now.

Not counting tonight's game, Fangraphs shows that he's been intentionally walked 10 times in high leverage, walked 13 times, stuck out 8 times and GIDP 5 times.

[fulltritty]

2 hits for Judge tonight bumping the average to .331.

[Nostalgia]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

2 hits for Judge tonight bumping the average to .331.

But Raleigh will go 2-5 with 2 homeruns tonight

[speedyjg13]

Originally Posted by SoCalsFinest

Raleigh in 2025 high leverage per Fangraphs: WRC+ 161 OPS 1.030

Judge in 2025 high leverage per Fangraphs WRC+ 95 OPS .852

BO member Stifle loved doing the Trout/JD Martinez high leverage stats. Judge is the Trout here.

[Nostalgia]

Another IBB!

[PuddleMonkey]

Originally Posted by SoCalsFinest

Raleigh in 2025 high leverage per Fangraphs: WRC+ 161 OPS 1.030

Judge in 2025 high leverage per Fangraphs WRC+ 95 OPS .852

This Judge guy sounds like he sucks. I heard he drops routine fly balls as well.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by cnewby

Stay on topic. Almost time for work, eh?

Do you have anything besides your attempted pot shots Chad? My job, my weight loss, anything else?

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

Do you have anything besides your attempted pot shots Chad? My job, my weight loss, anything else?

Again, keep my name out yo mouth, eh?

Go worry about your magic number....

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by cnewby

Again, keep my name out yo mouth, eh?

Go worry about your magic number....

Let's get back on track here Chad....
---
Says a lot that Vegas keeps raising the odds for Cal. Vegas always knows.

[Nostalgia]

Suarez 49

We may actually get 5 players with 50+ this season.

[ThoseBackPages]

the fix is in?

[fabiani12333]

A lot of the sports media talking heads are saying Cal should be MVP -- they seem to be trying to create an artificial consensus.

He obviously has a very compelling narrative -- no doubt about it: the multiple home run records and the M's winning the division for the first time in 2-and-a-half decades. But his supposed superior value to Judge hinges on his defense behind the plate, which is obviously impossible to quantify precisely.

His defense at catcher is basically being used as a trump card against Judge -- you can't disprove the claim that Cal's defense makes him more valuable. But at the same time, it's a dishonest approach as well, as those propagating the claim can't prove it either.

The choice between Judge and Cal is also being compared to the choice between Judge and Ohtani in 2022, with Judge supposedly having filled the Cal role that season by having the strong narrative and historic accomplishment, and Ohtani supposedly having filled the Judge role of being statistically more valuable. Basically, the idea is the role is reversed for Judge now and it's time for him to pay the piper. The problem with that claim is Judge was in fact statistically more valuable than Ohtani in 2022 like he is with Cal this season, blowing up that whole argument.

[jraarmy]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

A lot of the sports media talking heads are saying Cal should be MVP -- they seem to be trying to create an artificial consensus.

He obviously has a very compelling narrative -- no doubt about it: the multiple home run records and the M's winning the division for the first time in 2-and-a-half decades. But his supposed superior value to Judge hinges on his defense behind the plate, which is obviously impossible to quantify precisely.

His defense at catcher is basically being used as a trump card against Judge -- you can't disprove the claim that Cal's defense makes him more valuable. But at the same time, it's a dishonest approach as well, as those propagating the claim can't prove it either.

The choice between Judge and Cal is also being compared to the choice between Judge and Ohtani in 2022, with Judge supposedly having filled the Cal role that season by having the strong narrative and historic accomplishment, and Ohtani supposedly having filled the Judge role of being statistically more valuable. Basically, the idea is the role is reversed for Judge now and it's time for him to pay the piper. The problem with that claim is Judge was in fact statistically more valuable than Ohtani in 2022 like he is with Cal this season, blowing up that whole argument.

Oh fabs we love you

Posts keep getting longer

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by SoCalsFinest

Raleigh in 2025 high leverage per Fangraphs: WRC+ 161 OPS 1.030

Judge in 2025 high leverage per Fangraphs WRC+ 95 OPS .852

Originally Posted by SaveMeTheGum

Wow, those are pretty telling!

They actually aren't.

Yes, Judge has been relatively worse in clutch situations than Cal. But he's had fewer clutch opportunities and is still blowing him away in WPA .

[jraarmy]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

They actually aren't.

Yes, Judge has been relatively worse in clutch situations than Cal. But he's had fewer clutch opportunities and is still blowing him away in WPA .

Bwahahahaha. Always spinning

[deemsterz33]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

the fix is in?

I love TBP being this spicy.

[SaveMeTheGum]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

They actually aren't.

Yes, Judge has been relatively worse in clutch situations than Cal. But he's had fewer clutch opportunities and is still blowing him away in WPA .

Right, because if they were in favor of Judge, you'd TOTALLY not be using them for your argument.

[Cracktoast]

Originally Posted by cnewby

So many hills to die on, some pick them all!

Judge in a landslide. Stats don't lie.

Nor does the poll in this thread

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by Nostalgia

But Raleigh will go 2-5 with 2 homeruns tonight

Nope and 0-4 while adding another K.

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

They actually aren't.

Yes, Judge has been relatively worse in clutch situations than Cal. But he's had fewer clutch opportunities and is still blowing him away in WPA .

Here's another question of value. How valuable is it Judge hitting 19 first inning home runs giving his pitchers an early lead to pitch to?

[Big35Hurt]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

A lot of the sports media talking heads are saying Cal should be MVP -- they seem to be trying to create an artificial consensus.

He obviously has a very compelling narrative -- no doubt about it: the multiple home run records and the M's winning the division for the first time in 2-and-a-half decades. But his supposed superior value to Judge hinges on his defense behind the plate, which is obviously impossible to quantify precisely.

His defense at catcher is basically being used as a trump card against Judge -- you can't disprove the claim that Cal's defense makes him more valuable. But at the same time, it's a dishonest approach as well, as those propagating the claim can't prove it either.

The choice between Judge and Cal is also being compared to the choice between Judge and Ohtani in 2022, with Judge supposedly having filled the Cal role that season by having the strong narrative and historic accomplishment, and Ohtani supposedly having filled the Judge role of being statistically more valuable. Basically, the idea is the role is reversed for Judge now and it's time for him to pay the piper. The problem with that claim is Judge was in fact statistically more valuable than Ohtani in 2022 like he is with Cal this season, blowing up that whole argument.

Is your name really Kamala?

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

Here's another question of value. How valuable is it Judge hitting 19 first inning home runs giving his pitchers an early lead to pitch to?

This is REALLY grasping at straws here.

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

This is REALLY grasping at straws here.

Please explain? You don't think there is value in giving your team an early lead. You don't believe pitchers pitch differently when they have the lead verse being behind or tied?

By the way, I wasn't using it as a reason, I believe Judge is more valuable than Cal. I was just asking the question in general of player value. The Yankees as a team have scored the most 1st inning runs this year.

I tried to do a search, but all I could find was the following for the Diamondbacks in 2021:

In 2021, when the Diamondbacks scored the first run of the game they won 56.3% of their games (27 of 48 games). When the Diamondbacks did not score first, they won 21.9% of their games (25 of 114 games). This difference (56.3% vs 21.9% winning percentage) is huge and significant.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

Please explain? You don't think there is value in giving your team an early lead. You don't believe pitchers pitch differently when they have the lead verse being behind or tied?

By the way, I wasn't using it as a reason, I believe Judge is more valuable than Cal. I was just asking the question in general of player value. The Yankees as a team have scored the most 1st inning runs this year.

I tried to do a search, but all I could find was the following for the Diamondbacks in 2021:

It's minuscule, sure. I think trying to make any sort of insinuation in MVP for 1st inning home runs is grasping at straws. I don't think (know) 1-0 or 2-0 leads in the 1st inning changes almost anything. Are your pitchers more likely to throw strikes not on the corners because they're up 1 with 8 innings to go? You can make a totally rational MVP argument for Judge without 1st inning home runs.

What happened to the other 21.8% of the Dbacks possible wins though? LOL