Observations on the current state of the hobby from a show this weekend

[solt0131]

[DR Murph]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

I don't believe you. If anyone with the internet could learn a high margin business in one weekend flat, they'd all be doing it. And if everyone were doing it, it would be a bubble. And if it were a bubble, it would quickly pop.

There was once a time where "anyone" with a credit card could become a Project 2020 millionaire if they just pre-ordered every card in bulk. We know how that turned out.

I don't know where you were going with your first point. I've certainly never disparaged anyone for not ripping flagship. I've defended myself against people who said it can't be done, or that I wasn't properly valuing my time, or wasn't properly calculating my expenses...but that goes back to people, for God knows what reason, telling me how to run a business that they have no interest in being in. Again, weird.

I will offer advice when people are interested in getting into the business. I've been very helpful to that end. If someone said they wanted to make money but were stuffing base in their closet, I would tell them to sort it and sell some sets. But I've never told a random hobbyist "You should start a business and rip flagship because it's easy".

This is the perfect response from someone who actually knows what they’re talking about. It is super weird behavior, but I wouldn’t take it seriously. Most of it is just an act.

[Qubits]

Originally Posted by towerymt

Chantilly pickup yesterday...

Fantastic card. Thanks for sharing.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by DR Murph

This is the perfect response from someone who actually knows what they’re talking about. It is super weird behavior, but I wouldn’t take it seriously. Most of it is just an act.

You and Twalk have a fetish for following me around.

Murph has been here for 12 years and never once posted in OT until responding to me.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=6359

Poor Twalk had never wandered over to basketball before, but someone finds himself in the middle of a great wealth discussion there.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3098

I might do the right thing and leave again for your mental health.

[DR Murph]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

You and Twalk have a fetish for following me around.

Murph has been here for 12 years and never once posted in OT until responding to me.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=6359

Poor Twalk had never wandered over to basketball before, but someone finds himself in the middle of a great wealth discussion there.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3098

I might do the right thing and leave again for your mental health.

Case in point.

[Twalk1975]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

You and Twalk have a fetish for following me around.

Murph has been here for 12 years and never once posted in OT until responding to me.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=6359

Poor Twalk had never wandered over to basketball before, but someone finds himself in the middle of a great wealth discussion there.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3098

I might do the right thing and leave again for your mental health.

Don't flatter yourself.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Whatever happened to Khal Drogo leaving? That was nice.

[MavsRChamps]

Do $1-$5 cards move at card shows around the county? I set up in Philly area and my my stuff barely sells at all in this range (even when it is priced very fairly). Issue is people very rarely even look into the box to see the cards - Talking less than 5% of passer-bys, so it's not even about the contents. 99% of foot traffic are just flippers or window shoppers (just looking at showcases w/ no desire to dig through boxes). I see table after table with cheap cards at shows & rarely see anyone browsing.

I'm pretty knowledgeable about low-end so occasionally I see a good $1 box - and I myself look through it ... But again - I'm the only one even going through it, lol, so I'm able to find some good deals doing that sometimes.

So my question to dealers or card show attendees is:

1) Do your low-end actually sell? Or do you just bulk the whole boxes for discounted rates to other dealers to play hot potato with?
2) What part of the country do people look at low-end? I'm thinking maybe it's just a Philly/New Jersey thing where people bypass low-end at shows.

[Qubits]

Originally Posted by MavsRChamps

Do $1-$5 cards move at card shows around the county? I set up in Philly area and my my stuff barely sells at all in this range (even when it is priced very fairly). Issue is people very rarely even look into the box to see the cards - Talking less than 5% of passer-bys, so it's not even about the contents. 99% of foot traffic are just flippers or window shoppers (just looking at showcases w/ no desire to dig through boxes). I see table after table with cheap cards at shows & rarely see anyone browsing.

I'm pretty knowledgeable about low-end so occasionally I see a good $1 box - and I myself look through it ... But again - I'm the only one even going through it, lol, so I'm able to find some good deals doing that sometimes.

So my question to dealers or card show attendees is:

1) Do your low-end actually sell? Or do you just bulk the whole boxes for discounted rates to other dealers to play hot potato with?
2) What part of the country do people look at low-end? I'm thinking maybe it's just a Philly/New Jersey thing where people bypass low-end at shows.

Is your value box sorted by team/sport? These days I won't even look through a value box for more than about 30sec if it isn't. I'll only go past that 30sec if something catches my eye that lets me know it'll be worth my time.

[DR Murph]

Originally Posted by Qubits

Is your value box sorted by team/sport? These days I won't even look through a value box for more than about 30sec if it isn't. I'll only go past that 30sec if something catches my eye that lets me know it'll be worth my time.

Yup—the sorting is important. Small sample size, but the shows I’ve been to in Michigan have a lot of people going through boxes in that $1-$5 range when they are well organized.

[ClevelandIC]

Originally Posted by Qubits

Is your value box sorted by team/sport? These days I won't even look through a value box for more than about 30sec if it isn't. I'll only go past that 30sec if something catches my eye that lets me know it'll be worth my time.

Originally Posted by DR Murph

Yup—the sorting is important. Small sample size, but the shows I’ve been to in Michigan have a lot of people going through boxes in that $1-$5 range when they are well organized.

As a dollar box buyer, I'm the exact opposite. Sort it by sport and that is all - in my opinion

[NYBBFAN]

Originally Posted by Qubits

Is your value box sorted by team/sport? These days I won't even look through a value box for more than about 30sec if it isn't. I'll only go past that 30sec if something catches my eye that lets me know it'll be worth my time.

Exactly this. If there’s random crap thrown together, it’s not for me. If your boxes are labeled by sport, that lets me know that they’re sorted and I should look.

I don’t know how much this will improve value box sales though. Collectors seem to like value boxes. Not sure how many collectors are roaming around shows these days.

[DR Murph]

Originally Posted by ClevelandIC

As a dollar box buyer, I'm the exact opposite. Sort it by sport and that is all - in my opinion

That’s fair—can sometimes get great deals if things are thrown together last minute.

[theshowandme]

The Chantilly $0.10 boxes have turned into $0.50 boxes, and the $0.25 boxes have turned into the $1 boxes.

Value box inflation is real.

[hammerva]

There was one dealer at the Chantilly show who was nothing but $1 boxes and he couldn't keep them filled up they were going so quickly. they were organized by sport and that helped. Also helped that someone brought a bunch of stuff to sell so he could just fill them up periodically. Was able to back 2 or 3 times and find stuff I needed. I think he said he usually runs shows in New Jersey area but only multi day ones because there are just too many boxes for just a day show

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

I might do the right thing and leave again for your mental health.

Do it

[xposipx]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

The Chantilly $0.10 boxes have turned into $0.50 boxes, and the $0.25 boxes have turned into the $1 boxes.

Value box inflation is real.

This is accurate. I go through them all pretty quickly and can determine if it's worthwhile after one handful. $1 bins full of My House mosaic inserts and stars of the MLB inserts and I keep on moving. Those make up most of those boxes nowadays.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

Do it

Location fits.

[ironfireman]

Originally Posted by xposipx

That left the "bargain" dealers. There were a few. One was decent, but I was disinterested by the time I sought him out. Charlotte also still has people like this ALL over the place:

B728FD95-CE21-467C-AE89-E72F1DA5ED51 by xposipx, on Flickr

I had to share for a good laugh. This still exists here. Needless to say, most people were just taking up space and it was the worst card show I have attended in a very long time. As you can see, he had tons of top loaded $1-5 cards that can be had on comc for the minimum price allowed. What's sad, though, is that there were way worse dealers than this one. For the first time in my life, I saw a dollar bin that had a 2008 6th-year Joey Harrington Atlanta Falcons base card top loaded in it. Good times.

Well if you "talk" to dealers you will find out this guy sold his entire table on Friday. He had to grab whatever he had priced at the house for Saturday. His name is Terry BTW. He's a great vendor. Funny as hell! ALSO he sells $1,2,5,10 at 75% of sticker price. I grabbed five '87 Bo Jackson cards for $1 each - he gave me another 25% off - Does he have some out of date prices. Yep. But guess what - that cuts both ways... ALSO ALSO if you see individually priced stuff he takes 75-80% off those. Srsly! I've bought a ton of vintage off him over the years. He just uses Beckett as a reference. You gotta ask and talk to people or you will miss the real deals.
You are correct in that the show was mostly crap - at least for me. (IF you are buying vintage) I don't care about Pokemon or Modern. It was 90% "We are Buying", Pokemon & Modern so I probably wouldn't go back.

[Jboff73]

Quite possibly the best weekend show/auto event at Chantilly, VA, with signers like Rob Gronkowski, Manny Ramirez, Miguel Cabrera, and William Shatner. A good mix of tables from $1 tables to super high-end, not overwhelmed by Pokeman. Every sport represented at tables.

If that was the last show in Chantilly (IKEA moving in this spring?), way to go out on a high note.

[dantheman514]

Originally Posted by ClevelandIC

As a dollar box buyer, I'm the exact opposite. Sort it by sport and that is all - in my opinion

I'm in the same boat; I like the variety within each sport. Also, this allows me to see cards I wouldn't search for by team. Lastly, I will usually do a handful to get a feel for the offerings; This is usually enough to decide if I want to invest more time.

[dcbaseballcards]

Originally Posted by MavsRChamps

Do $1-$5 cards move at card shows around the county? I set up in Philly area and my my stuff barely sells at all in this range (even when it is priced very fairly). Issue is people very rarely even look into the box to see the cards - Talking less than 5% of passer-bys, so it's not even about the contents. 99% of foot traffic are just flippers or window shoppers (just looking at showcases w/ no desire to dig through boxes). I see table after table with cheap cards at shows & rarely see anyone browsing.

I'm pretty knowledgeable about low-end so occasionally I see a good $1 box - and I myself look through it ... But again - I'm the only one even going through it, lol, so I'm able to find some good deals doing that sometimes.

So my question to dealers or card show attendees is:

1) Do your low-end actually sell? Or do you just bulk the whole boxes for discounted rates to other dealers to play hot potato with?
2) What part of the country do people look at low-end? I'm thinking maybe it's just a Philly/New Jersey thing where people bypass low-end at shows.

There are days where I go around the showcases looking for rare $30-$$$$ cards for my collection and only stop at the occasional $1 bin that is separated by team and go after my team plus a few extra players I collect on other teams. There are other days where I have more patience and time and enjoy flipping through thousands of $1 cards. (but it must be sorted by sport)

Anecdotally, at Chantilly, I find the value boxes that are sorted by team are overpriced: $5 cards priced at $15 and not worth haggling over, and $1 cards that should be in 25 cents bins.

[f2tornado]

Originally Posted by MavsRChamps

So my question to dealers or card show attendees is:

1) Do your low-end actually sell? Or do you just bulk the whole boxes for discounted rates to other dealers to play hot potato with?
2) What part of the country do people look at low-end? I'm thinking maybe it's just a Philly/New Jersey thing where people bypass low-end at shows.

I hit card shows, mainly in the Dakotas and Minnesota, specifically to nail these bargain boxes and find raw for grading. Even better when both happen in the same box. I prefer when the bargain boxes are sorted by sport but won't complain about a mixed box when it actually contains bargains. My biggest annoyance when I come across dollar boxes is when the all cards really should be in a quarter box, and I probably wouldn't even spend a quarter on 99% of it.

My competition varies by show but is rarely heavy. Most of the folks I compete with are usually just pulling out the local team, certain players, or vary obvious bargains. The more aggressive flippers are mainly pulling hot players, autos, jersey cards, and low serial numbered stuff. I'm guessing maybe 10% of card show attendees are seriously plowing through these boxes but tables that have them usually have someone digging and the "known" vendors can have a crowd. Most card show attendees are there for specific wants or trading/selling.

I was in Minneapolis area on Saturday to visit ailing father and stopped at the Andover show. Dealers were happy. The show was well attended. People were picking through the boxes but it wasn't an aggressive crowd. I maybe spent $60 but mainly focused on baseball given a shortage of time.

[MavsRChamps]

Originally Posted by Qubits

Is your value box sorted by team/sport? These days I won't even look through a value box for more than about 30sec if it isn't. I'll only go past that 30sec if something catches my eye that lets me know it'll be worth my time.

Sorted by sport. But again it's not just my boxes - it's all around the shows I rarely see anyone looking at the value boxes under $5 stuff. This market seems dead at shows, at least in the Northeast. It was better when I started doing shows Fall 2023 but has been dead the past year.

I have so much $1-$5 stuff I'm not sure what to do with. Prob will just hold or create lots at some point. This isn't common give away stuff - it's all #ed, Jersey, Auto type stuff or superstars at very least.

For a couple month period I actually put up a sign for my $1 that literally said "1 Card FREE or 15 for $10, 50 for $30" and seriously had 2 people or less PER SHOW actually take a card (usually a kid), and it didn't help traffic at all to dig into the boxes. All sorted by sport.

[f2tornado]

Originally Posted by MavsRChamps

This market seems dead at shows, at least in the Northeast. It was better when I started doing shows Fall 2023 but has been dead the past year.

It's far from dead in the Midwest but it's definitely not a focal point at most shows. There's still a lot of people like me that don't care about the three and four figure slabbed stuff in showcases and enjoy digging for diamonds in the rough. My problem is decent bargain boxes are becoming a less common sight at card shows as they become slab cities and Pokémon binder bonanzas. But, it really does just take one bargain bin dealer to make my day. They don't have to be extreme deals either. I'm perfectly content loading up on a pile of 50 cent box stuff where I can land a few gems for PSA, maybe flip a few on eBay for a few bucks to offset expenses, and send the rest to COMC for a slow profit.