📈Is the correction over? What cards look attractive with an upside potential?📈

[kipgen]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

maybe you can make money flipping Wemby if he wins MVP this year but people holding his stuff long term are just going to get obliterated

$1800 for silver prizm psa 10? Yea good luck holding that

I think that's a silver prizm problem, not a Wemby problem

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by boxbuster7

I don't even know what any of this means. It is a strongly dressed word salad.

I can translate it for you.

“I am bitter because I can’t afford to participate in the hobby like I used to.”

[ninjabum87]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

I can translate it for you.

“I am bitter because I can’t afford to participate in the hobby like I used to.”

When did I mention affordability in that particular post? The watering down of product lines, low effort card design, catering to degen gamblers, etc is all just a profit maximization strategy. Panini did it the last several years and Topps continues to do it now.

As long as breakers are buying pallets of low value to cost ratio products they have zero reason to change.

I honestly think the last time I actually ripped sports was probably 2019, the products just aren't appealing. Singles are lower now than they have been in a long time. Better for me. Not so fun for people who actually enjoy ripping product.

[Torro]

Originally Posted by ninjabum87

When did I mention affordability in that particular post? The watering down of product lines, low effort card design, catering to degen gamblers, etc is all just a profit maximization strategy. Panini did it the last several years and Topps continues to do it now.

As long as breakers are buying pallets of low value to cost ratio products they have zero reason to change.

I honestly think the last time I actually ripped sports was probably 2019, the products just aren't appealing. Singles are lower now than they have been in a long time. Better for me. Not so fun for people who actually enjoy ripping product.

I believe everyone enjoys ripping products, and for me its not the question if I can afford them anymore, but because Im wondering what else I could get for that money. Ten to twenty years ago, I constantly faced this dilemma: should I order some boxes or buy something nice? Most of the time, I leaned toward the boxes for the pure fun and excitement. Now, the choice is easy—I don't even consider ordering boxes anymore (maybe il still pick up some Topps Chrome for the old times sake).

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by ninjabum87

I do think there is still enough of a regular collector base to cause the bottom to fall out if they worked together

Awwww, that's cute. You should gather up the other 7 "regular collectors" and march around their headquarters.

I don't think you realize just how little you are to a company this size. This is a generic "you" that also includes me and everyone else here. No matter why you are in the hobby and no matter how you feel about it. How much do you spend a year on wax? A few hundred? A few thousands? Fanatics is valued at over $30 billion. Even if you are dropping a million a year, you are small peanuts. You don't have enough friends to even make them notice you, much less change anything.

I have been in the hobby since I was a puppy. I have player collected, team collected, star collected, auto collected, GU collected, flipped wax, held wax, opened in mass to sell singles, donated cards to youth league teams, and store mass worthless commons in the closet. I really don't think there is anything that I haven't done, other than the breaking scene which I don't have an interest in participating in. The hobby has changed multiple times over the years and will continue to do so. The economy and outside factors will be what changes things, not your protest. I highly recommend adapting and finding new ways to enjoy the hobby. And if there is nothing you enjoy, leave and do something you do enjoy. Maybe we go into a huge depression and things will be cheap again and you can come back. Life is too short to just complain about things you can't change. There are all kinds of things I would change if I had the power, but I don't. So I just concentrate on the things that I enjoy.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by premium1981

Awwww, that's cute. You should gather up the other 7 "regular collectors" and march around their headquarters.

I don't think you realize just how little you are to a company this size. This is a generic "you" that also includes me and everyone else here. No matter why you are in the hobby and no matter how you feel about it. How much do you spend a year on wax? A few hundred? A few thousands? Fanatics is valued at over $30 billion. Even if you are dropping a million a year, you are small peanuts. You don't have enough friends to even make them notice you, much less change anything.

I have been in the hobby since I was a puppy. I have player collected, team collected, star collected, auto collected, GU collected, flipped wax, held wax, opened in mass to sell singles, donated cards to youth league teams, and store mass worthless commons in the closet. I really don't think there is anything that I haven't done, other than the breaking scene which I don't have an interest in participating in. The hobby has changed multiple times over the years and will continue to do so. The economy and outside factors will be what changes things, not your protest. I highly recommend adapting and finding new ways to enjoy the hobby. And if there is nothing you enjoy, leave and do something you do enjoy. Maybe we go into a huge depression and things will be cheap again and you can come back. Life is too short to just complain about things you can't change. There are all kinds of things I would change if I had the power, but I don't. So I just concentrate on the things that I enjoy.

What are you doing now to adapt to the new hobby environment that is still enjoyable to you?

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by Torro

I believe everyone enjoys ripping products, and for me its not the question if I can afford them anymore, but because I'm wondering what else I could get for that money.

This.

Opening your own product has become such a financial gamble that many collectors are choosing to spend their money on singles instead.

I can easily afford to rip wax....I just don't like setting my $$$ on fire....

And while spending money on singles has ALWAYS been a part of the hobby, many of us do miss opening boxes of products we like and getting reasonable value in return.

[yiguiri2002]

I keep hearing about how awful opening wax is.

Yet I've seen some of the most affordable prices in recent months on retail recently. But everyone has been chasing Topps Hobby which would give you a 10-20% return at current prices if you plan to hold.

People don't want to open wax. They want to open certain type of wax, and since pretty much all of them are interested in the same, prices have gone up.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by mfw13

This.

Opening your own product has become such a financial gamble that many collectors are choosing to spend their money on singles instead.

I can easily afford to rip wax....I just don't like setting my $$$ on fire....

And while spending money on singles has ALWAYS been a part of the hobby, many of us do miss opening boxes of products we like and getting reasonable value in return.

This is a take I agree with.

You can still collect singles on a budget. Can't convince me otherwise. But ripping anything besides retail wax or the lowest end stuff has become way too costly. The exception might be if you could have gotten in on the Topps release direct. Hopefully Fanatics does more of that.

[ninjabum87]

Originally Posted by premium1981

Awwww, that's cute. You should gather up the other 7 "regular collectors" and march around their headquarters.

I don't think you realize just how little you are to a company this size. This is a generic "you" that also includes me and everyone else here. No matter why you are in the hobby and no matter how you feel about it. How much do you spend a year on wax? A few hundred? A few thousands? Fanatics is valued at over $30 billion. Even if you are dropping a million a year, you are small peanuts. You don't have enough friends to even make them notice you, much less change anything.

I have been in the hobby since I was a puppy. I have player collected, team collected, star collected, auto collected, GU collected, flipped wax, held wax, opened in mass to sell singles, donated cards to youth league teams, and store mass worthless commons in the closet. I really don't think there is anything that I haven't done, other than the breaking scene which I don't have an interest in participating in. The hobby has changed multiple times over the years and will continue to do so. The economy and outside factors will be what changes things, not your protest. I highly recommend adapting and finding new ways to enjoy the hobby. And if there is nothing you enjoy, leave and do something you do enjoy. Maybe we go into a huge depression and things will be cheap again and you can come back. Life is too short to just complain about things you can't change. There are all kinds of things I would change if I had the power, but I don't. So I just concentrate on the things that I enjoy.

Did you just like, stop reading at the end of what you quoted or something? 100% if the majority of the people who bought product just to rip for fun/collections or bought singles to hold long term and not flip short term decided there was some industry practice that was unacceptable to them they could force change. Breaks are worthless if there is no customer base to purchase singles to defray the cost. Cardboard is only worth as much as people's perception. 30 billion dollar companies still don't like losing money in one of their profit centers.

It's just not ever going to happen because there will never be a broad consensus/unity there and Im not sure what horrible misstep these companies would need to make or how bad the environment would need to be for that sort of thing to happen. To your point it's far more likely economic factors force changes in consumer behaviors.

All of this commentary on my part is generally centered around the idea that a lot of people are pining for what was. My own behavior was never really centered around opening product, the value proposition is rarely there. I'd rather just buy singles. The worst time for singles was the covid/post-covid spike, and that's basically when I started spending my time on other things. For my own behaviors the market right now is more appealing than it's been in years.

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

What are you doing now to adapt to the new hobby environment that is still enjoyable to you?

Buying incredible Braves pc cards with my son at far better prices than would have been possible a couple of years ago. There are so many insane patches/autographs/Now Moments/etc for fans to collect now. The selection of items is more than ever. Not too long ago it would be hard to find something that really said "WOW, I need this in my forever PC". A couple of years ago a lot of what we kept in the PC was pulls that we opened ourselves. During our mass Flagship case openings I would always let him pick a couple of cards, regardless of value, to put into our PC. Since we don't really do that anymore we spend time together browsing over the endless supply of incredible cards.

And to go a step further, something else that would not have been possible previously. We went to the HR Derby this year and got to watch Cal Raleigh win it. Cal is a local guy, and Atlanta is our local team. It was absolutely everything I thought it would be, plus some. For Christmas, they are getting a Topps Now Cal Raleigh Relic card from that game. Hopefully its live by then.

I rarely open wax, because it doesn't have the value it once did. I rarely buy Topps Now because the print runs are so large on the good stuff and the base cards are nothing special.

As always, I practice what I preach. It feels like every 2 years or so I have to tweak what I do on the personal and business side of the hobby. That's also part of what I love. I love watching for trends and trying to guess what's coming next in the hobby before it arrives. The prediction part of my math brain can't get enough. Never will I ever stay involved in something where "this sucks, that sucks, everything sucks". I would find something that brought joy to my life.

[Blazed]

Originally Posted by ninjabum87

Yeah, if influencers/upper crust wealthy paid more for cards where all sports players are turned into naked cabbage patch dolls laying in fields of lettuce that's what they'd do. I dont expect any profit-first companies to have much in the way of passion for anything other than money first. If the hobby makes them more and more money without having a healthy community, high quality art/designs, etc then they arent gonna GAF.

Look at Pokemon/Game Freak. Parents absolutely shell out for every new game, degens absolutely hoard new Pokemon sets and mud wrestle for spots in line outside of Target so they really have very little to gain by interesting game design, innovation, or any of that sort of thing. Just an unholy convergence of late stage capitalism, mental illness, and probably several other factors in consumer behavior.

You 100% can strong arm a company into changing as a consumer base, but it requires unity rarely seen. I do think there is still enough of a regular collector base to cause the bottom to fall out if they worked together but I don't think that's ever gonna happen. Always gonna be a bit of a prisoners dilemma were some individuals would jump right back in as soon as the market was appealing to them again.

The hobby has changed it’s not for the collector anymore

It’s a business and the customer is now the shareholder, not the guy ripping packs on Friday night, but that can change

That’s also why the only real leverage you have is collective. Not rage quitting. Not “I’m done with Topps”

Spend elsewhere, back independent shops, and let the numbers speak

Fanatics notices when a segment walks. Not a person

[Blazed]

Originally Posted by premium1981

Awwww, that's cute. You should gather up the other 7 "regular collectors" and march around their headquarters.

I don't think you realize just how little you are to a company this size. This is a generic "you" that also includes me and everyone else here. No matter why you are in the hobby and no matter how you feel about it. How much do you spend a year on wax? A few hundred? A few thousands? Fanatics is valued at over $30 billion. Even if you are dropping a million a year, you are small peanuts. You don't have enough friends to even make them notice you, much less change anything.

I have been in the hobby since I was a puppy. I have player collected, team collected, star collected, auto collected, GU collected, flipped wax, held wax, opened in mass to sell singles, donated cards to youth league teams, and store mass worthless commons in the closet. I really don't think there is anything that I haven't done, other than the breaking scene which I don't have an interest in participating in. The hobby has changed multiple times over the years and will continue to do so. The economy and outside factors will be what changes things, not your protest. I highly recommend adapting and finding new ways to enjoy the hobby. And if there is nothing you enjoy, leave and do something you do enjoy. Maybe we go into a huge depression and things will be cheap again and you can come back. Life is too short to just complain about things you can't change. There are all kinds of things I would change if I had the power, but I don't. So I just concentrate on the things that I enjoy.

That doesn’t mean your voice doesn’t matter it just means it matters in aggregate, and only when it aligns with something that threatens the bottom line

Until then? You’re right. We’re all small

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by tjforce

This is a take I agree with.

You can still collect singles on a budget. Can't convince me otherwise. But ripping anything besides retail wax or the lowest end stuff has become way too costly. The exception might be if you could have gotten in on the Topps release direct. Hopefully Fanatics does more of that.

Not only can you collect on a budget, you can make money by flipping/holding the right cards.

I know you know this (loved your flipping thread back in the day)… well I probably didn’t love it in that moment but I do now.

My anchor is the silver Prizm RC. It’s the most liquid, most well known, and I’d go as far as saying the most desirable. We will see what happens with Topps

[Blazed]

Originally Posted by ninjabum87

Hell, I don't think I have sold really anything in a year or so. Probably because I stopped buying speculative crap and just bought what I liked.

This. Always

Originally Posted by jcardstore

The "hobby" is not what people on here remember as the "hobby" of the pre 2010s and it's difficult for them to see it for what it is rather than how they want it to be

Correct, pre 2010 it was mostly about community and personal connections

The same people who used to rip wax for fun now watch others rip it hoping for a $50k pull

The experience has been replaced by ROI and it sucks

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by mfw13

This.

Opening your own product has become such a financial gamble that many collectors are choosing to spend their money on singles instead.

I can easily afford to rip wax....I just don't like setting my $$$ on fire....

And while spending money on singles has ALWAYS been a part of the hobby, many of us do miss opening boxes of products we like and getting reasonable value in return.

Very few people like to set money on fire. Wax does 1 of 2 things. It trends up or trends down. There are multiple variables that create these trends but nonetheless, that is what happens.

A) Wax trends down. You wait and buy it at whatever price point you think it best. In baseball, Topps Chrome Hobby this year went from around $300 and now has dropped about 40%. I would guess it gets even cheaper around Black Friday.

B) Wax trends up. Buy 3-4 boxes of whatever product you think fits this bill. Sell all but 1 once it gets to your price point and have a box for free or very cheap.

Most people half paying attention with an average IQ can predict 4 out of 5 products trend directions correctly. Once again, stop complaining and find a solution to your problem. Whoa is me has run its course. Find older products if you want smaller print runs. Or if you response is "Everything still sucks" you should find something else to do with your time.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by premium1981

Buying incredible Braves pc cards with my son at far better prices than would have been possible a couple of years ago. There are so many insane patches/autographs/Now Moments/etc for fans to collect now. The selection of items is more than ever. Not too long ago it would be hard to find something that really said "WOW, I need this in my forever PC". A couple of years ago a lot of what we kept in the PC was pulls that we opened ourselves. During our mass Flagship case openings I would always let him pick a couple of cards, regardless of value, to put into our PC. Since we don't really do that anymore we spend time together browsing over the endless supply of incredible cards.

And to go a step further, something else that would not have been possible previously. We went to the HR Derby this year and got to watch Cal Raleigh win it. Cal is a local guy, and Atlanta is our local team. It was absolutely everything I thought it would be, plus some. For Christmas, they are getting a Topps Now Cal Raleigh Relic card from that game. Hopefully its live by then.

I rarely open wax, because it doesn't have the value it once did. I rarely buy Topps Now because the print runs are so large on the good stuff and the base cards are nothing special.

As always, I practice what I preach. It feels like every 2 years or so I have to tweak what I do on the personal and business side of the hobby. That's also part of what I love. I love watching for trends and trying to guess what's coming next in the hobby before it arrives. The prediction part of my math brain can't get enough. Never will I ever stay involved in something where "this sucks, that sucks, everything sucks". I would find something that brought joy to my life.

Buying singles is definitely the way to go now, that’s what I mainly focus on as well.

We all enjoy opening wax, I think there is an underlying understanding of that, but for today’s wax prices, there are SOOO many awesome singles that you have alluded to that are more gratifying to spend your money on than a box or case of random cards at a similar price.

It’s not that many of us cannot afford the wax, because we CAN afford it, it’s just that we find it more satisfying to use the money to buy singles with that same amount of money instead.

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by Blazed

The hobby has changed it’s not for the collector anymore

It’s a business and the customer is now the shareholder, not the guy ripping packs on Friday night, but that can change

That’s also why the only real leverage you have is collective. Not rage quitting. Not “I’m done with Topps”

Spend elsewhere, back independent shops, and let the numbers speak

Fanatics notices when a segment walks. Not a person

Everyone says it isn't sustainable. Maybe it isn't. But isn't that a good thing? If it really is not for the collector anymore I would think the house of cards come crumbling down rather quickly. I just don't see it that way. I see a much broader hobby than I have ever seen before and the vast majority of people are loving it. The community factor has just changed. When I was young you would hang out at the card shop and hope someone else would come in to talk cards. Or just hangout with the owner until you ran out of time. Now people are hanging out in breaks. Times change. I think its a weird way to spend time, but I'm also smart enough to realize that I am in the minority and people love their online communities now. That will only increase in market share.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by premium1981

Everyone says it isn't sustainable. Maybe it isn't. But isn't that a good thing? If it really is not for the collector anymore I would think the house of cards come crumbling down rather quickly. I just don't see it that way. I see a much broader hobby than I have ever seen before and the vast majority of people are loving it. The community factor has just changed. When I was young you would hang out at the card shop and hope someone else would come in to talk cards. Or just hangout with the owner until you ran out of time. Now people are hanging out in breaks. Times change. I think its a weird way to spend time, but I'm also smart enough to realize that I am in the minority and people love their online communities now. That will only increase in market share.

I just need to ask who is loving it? Like what is the demographic?

If we’re talking about the sneakerhead flipperbois ok I can see it but I’m really skeptical that the vast majority of people are loving it.

People buying into breaks are gambling. There’s no community in a breakers YouTube chatroom

[jcardstore]

And I just want to add that gambling culture being normalized is bad for everyone.

People may think it’s “fun” but it’s just bad in virtually every sense

[boxbuster7]

I still enjoy the hobby. I don't rip boxes like I used to anymore but found new ways to have fun. I suggest everybody do the same.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

I just need to ask who is loving it? Like what is the demographic?

If we’re talking about the sneakerhead flipperbois ok I can see it but I’m really skeptical that the vast majority of people are loving it.

People buying into breaks are gambling. There’s no community in a breakers YouTube chatroom

That “community” in a breakers forum is also known as gamblers anonymous.

The most compulsive and degenerate crowd in the hobby. But hey, fanatics needs to cater to all kinds, right?

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

I just need to ask who is loving it? Like what is the demographic?

If we’re talking about the sneakerhead flipperbois ok I can see it but I’m really skeptical that the vast majority of people are loving it.

People buying into breaks are gambling. There’s no community in a breakers YouTube chatroom

Mentioning YouTube chatrooms just shows you are out of touch with what is actually happening. But truthfully, so was I until I started looking. I don't do social media, I don't participate in breaks, I'm a true outsider to that world. And honestly, if someone had told me that the "real collectors" were only a small fragment of what is happening in this hobby I would have laughed. But when there is something I am ignorant about I try to fill in those gaps. I don't just call them names and pretend like I am better than they are. So that is what I did, I went to see what was actually happening. Sure, everyone likes to call them sneakerhead flipperbois, but they outnumber everyone else. Doesn't matter if their behavior is unlike ours, they still count. Casinos have not went broke, and neither is sports betting. So anyone thinking this group of people will run out of money is small minded.

This is also largely the same generation saying they can't afford to buy a home. So smart decisions with money are not part of their life plan. They love the thrill and they love the hype breakers. Those are facts. Every generation tends to look down on those that follow, and that is what is happening here. Sure, its irresponsible and silly behavior. But that is the life they want to live and they are entitled to do so. People can hate on them and talk down about them till the cows come home. Doesn't change reality.

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

And I just want to add that gambling culture being normalized is bad for everyone.

People may think it’s “fun” but it’s just bad in virtually every sense

Agree 100%. There will be a lot of regret down the road with how much money was wasted.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by boxbuster7

I still enjoy the hobby. I don't rip boxes like I used to anymore but found new ways to have fun. I suggest everybody do the same.

We can find new ways to enjoy the hobby AND still complain about high wax prices and lousy products.

It doesn't have to be either/or.

Some of the posters on here seem to assume that people like me who complain a lot are no longer enjoying the hobby.

I do still enjoy the hobby.....but I don't enjoy it as much as when wax prices were more reasonable and I used to buy & open more boxes.