Patrick Mahomes Prices

[KardsC1]

Some people will have you believing Brady and manning never missed a pass, never missed a SB, a playoff game etc ..they both walk on water too by the way ..crazy world we live in

[JohnnyHatesJazz]

Originally Posted by KardsC1

Some people will have you believing Brady and manning never missed a pass, never missed a SB, a playoff game etc ..they both walk on water too by the way ..crazy world we live in

Nobody’s saying that. In their prime they never just squeaked into the playoffs or missed it entirely.

They are the gold standard when it comes to calling audibles to get into the right play. They are the greatest pocket passers of all time.Put either one on this kc team and they are not so far down the totem pole this year.

Mahomes has got by mostly with his athleticism and kelce uncovering himself in high leverage situations. All of a sudden, kelce is washed and Mahomes quick feet has declined. He’s clearly lost a step.

[KardsC1]

Even if mahomes misses this years playoffs, he is still ahead of manning in playoff Ws..only Brady is above mahomes…at age 30, mahomes still have a lot in the tank…a few weeks ago, mahomes was in the mvp convo, chiefs was rolling ..we live in a world of overreaction ..reality is what kc has done in the last 7 yrs is insane..

All this mahomes gloom and doom, I hope to snag that gold vinyl..yet every day it keeps going up ..shucks !

[Chris P]

So some people say missing the playoffs is worse than getting knocked out yet also when it comes to Mahomes say it's better to not make the super bowl then make it and get blown out in one.

[KardsC1]

Originally Posted by Chris P

So some people say missing the playoffs is worse than getting knocked out yet also when it comes to Mahomes say it's better to not make the super bowl then make it and get blown out in one.

Exactly!!! The same folks talking smack that chiefs will miss the playoffs and ending mahomes career , making him a loser…these folks also said it’s bad to lose in a SB…. I’m consistent, I would rather have mahomes get to the SB every year regardless of the outcome ..finishing 2nd is better vs Cancun in Jan

[Chris P]

Originally Posted by KardsC1

Exactly!!! The same folks talking smack that chiefs will miss the playoffs and ending mahomes career , making him a loser…these folks also said it’s bad to lose in a SB…. I’m consistent, I would rather have mahomes get to the SB every year regardless of the outcome ..finishing 2nd is better vs Cancun in Jan

It's the same arguement people use to bring Lebron down. It's a convenient argument to make when it's a player you don't like. In no real world is losing a wild card game or missing the playoffs better than making it all the way to the Super Bowl no matter what the outcome is

[Delta5]

Brady never get blown out in the SB nor he never missed playoff during his prime. Mahomes got blown out twice and about to miss playoff during his supposedly "Prime"

[KardsC1]

Originally Posted by Delta5

Brady never get blown out in the SB nor he never missed playoff during his prime. Mahomes got blown out twice and about to miss playoff during his supposedly "Prime"

Brady missed the playoffs in 2002…of course you’re going to say Brady wasn’t in his “prime”….but yet mahomes loses to Brady early in mahomes career and people pin that on mahomes to this day..how convenient ?

Also Brady was a heavy heavy favorite on 07, yet loss to a wildcard team giants in the SB…Brady also got has arse handed several times in wildcard games .. sorry those don’t count?

[Delta5]

Originally Posted by KardsC1

Brady missed the playoffs in 2002…of course you’re going to say Brady wasn’t in his “prime”….but yet mahomes loses to Brady early in mahomes career and people pin that on mahomes to this day..how convenient ?

Also Brady was a heavy heavy favorite on 07, yet loss to a wildcard team giants in the SB…Brady also got has arse handed several times in wildcard games .. sorry those don’t count?

Read my sentence, none of what I said is wrong. You just shifted the argument elsewhere

[2010GBPackers]

Originally Posted by Baraka

'10 Packers vibe?

Not a chance. That Packers team underperformed during the regular season. Green Bay's 2010 team was stacked; this year's Chiefs team is a shell of its former self.

[JohnnyHatesJazz]

Originally Posted by Chris P

So some people say missing the playoffs is worse than getting knocked out yet also when it comes to Mahomes say it's better to not make the super bowl then make it and get blown out in one.

Both can be true particularly with Mahomes who’s been blown out in the Super Bowl twice.

[daveyc1]

I think there is a lot of pressure on KC this season. roster has some holes/WR room does not look as good as some hoped pre-season/Kelce getting older-slower/Jones has regressed and is showing lack of focus-effort.

With that in mind, I recently read that Mahomes salary cap hit for the next 2 seasons will be $74MM and $78MM respectively! that is going to put a huge damper on filling/fixing roster problems. his hit alone will be around 27% of the cap! to add, Chris Jones cap hit for next season will be $41MM. that means 40% of next years cap hit will be wrapped up in only 2 players!! that is pretty staggering. I expect Jones will be released after the 26 season as KC have an option for him.

the reason for Mahomes huge hits coming up are because of salary restructures. Veach has done a great job managing the cap for the last 5 years or so, but there is only so far he can kick the can down the road before there is a salary cap "comeuppance" it seems KC has about reached that limit for restructures under the cap, then it will be time for a franchise rebuild.

that is why it was so important for KC to win THIS season. it sure seems lean times are ahead with KC's salary cap situation in the very near future.

[Chris P]

Originally Posted by JohnnyHatesJazz

Both can be true particularly with Mahomes who’s been blown out in the Super Bowl twice.

I don't care if he got blown out twice...making it there is still better than not...then your narrarive would change to "he can't even make the Super Bowl". I'm not saying getting blown out is a good look .but saying that getting blown out in the Super Bowl compared to not even reaching the Super Bowl is somehow worse is a ridiculous (and hypocritical claim if that same logic isn't applied to making/missing the playoffs) claim no matter how you try to rationalize it.

[JohnnyHatesJazz]

Originally Posted by Chris P

I don't care if he got blown out twice...making it there is still better than not...then your narrarive would change to "he can't even make the Super Bowl". I'm not saying getting blown out is a good look .but saying that getting blown out in the Super Bowl compared to not even reaching the Super Bowl is somehow worse is a ridiculous (and hypocritical claim if that same logic isn't applied to making/missing the playoffs) claim no matter how you try to rationalize it.

They are both bad looks.

Missing the playoffs in your prime as an NFL qb is bad.

Making the Super Bowl and getting crapped on in a one sided affair is also bad.

It's like writing a term paper in college. Not turning in a paper that is due is bad. Turning in a paper that is a concoction with no facts, no citations, tons of spelling and grammatical errors is also bad. The person writing it should be embarrassed.

[Chris P]

Originally Posted by JohnnyHatesJazz

They are both bad looks.

Missing the playoffs in your prime as an NFL qb is bad.

Making the Super Bowl and getting crapped on in a one sided affair is also bad.

It's like writing a term paper in college. Not turning in a paper that is due is bad. Turning in a paper that is a concoction with no facts, no citations, tons of spelling and grammatical errors is also bad. The person writing it should be embarrassed.

Again..I'm not arguing they're not bad looks...I'm arguing the notion that somehow not getting to the Super Bowl is somehow better than making it and getting blown out. You wanna ding Mahomes for playing poorly in two super bowls and getting blown out...that's completely fair..you wanna ding Mahomes for making the Super Bowl period regardless of what the outcome was and say it's worse than not making it at all. I find that ridiculous and absurd.

[JohnnyHatesJazz]

Originally Posted by Chris P

Again..I'm not arguing they're not bad looks...I'm arguing the notion that somehow not getting to the Super Bowl is somehow better than making it and getting blown out. You wanna ding Mahomes for playing poorly in two super bowls and getting blown out...that's completely fair..you wanna ding Mahomes for making the Super Bowl period regardless of what the outcome was and say it's worse than not making it at all. I find that ridiculous and absurd.

Yeah and in my example a guy with a term paper assignment was better off not turning in the paper than he is turning in a sloppy, devoid of supporting facts, elementary school level paper and looking like a fool not worthy of a college education.

[TSonn]

I'm not worried. This KC team, on paper, is better than their last two SB winners.

Losing to Buffalo in Buffalo and Denver in Denver during the regular season is not surprising. The first 3 losses they weren't healthy.

They should go on a bit of a run here and should end up around 11-6 to end the season. Probably no home field in the playoffs but I'd rather have a better roster and no home field than a mediocre roster and home field (like last year).

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by TSonn

I'm not worried. This KC team, on paper, is better than their last two SB winners.

Losing to Buffalo in Buffalo and Denver in Denver during the regular season is not surprising. The first 3 losses they weren't healthy.

They should go on a bit of a run here and should end up around 11-6 to end the season. Probably no home field in the playoffs but I'd rather have a better roster and no home field than a mediocre roster and home field (like last year).

Playoffs are going to be tough bc of the tiebreaker scenarios... but people are over analyzing things. This season has come down to one thing, and that's the entire team has not played good situational football. Which is wild, because last year they were amazing at playing good situational football.

On paper this team is absolutely better than last year. I think I heard they're 5th in total defense, 8th in total offense. They're +73, which is the 3rd best in the AFC (despite being 5-5). Mahomes is leading the NFL in total yards per game (3rd in passing yards per).

They just aren't playing well in close and crucial situations. 2 things stick out to me are lack of a consistent run threat, and opposing teams catching up to some of the stuff that Andy and Spags are doing.

That being said, no point in over analyzing things until 8 days from now. By then we'll know where they stand with what they can do the rest of the year.

[Grave252]

Originally Posted by TSonn

They should go on a bit of a run here and should end up around 11-6 to end the season. Probably no home field in the playoffs but I'd rather have a better roster and no home field than a mediocre roster and home field (like last year).

Do you really believe this? They have 1 win this year vs teams with a winning record. I think they finish 9-8. They aren't going to finish the year on 6-1 run, especially with a couple divisional matchups.

[TSonn]

Originally Posted by Grave252

Do you really believe this? They have 1 win this year vs teams with a winning record. I think they finish 9-8. They aren't going to finish the year on 6-1 run, especially with a couple divisional matchups.

10-7 at worst, IMO.

Now, if the Colts blow them out in KC this weekend I will change my stance.

The division matchups are all in KC aside from week 18 in LV. Then they've got the Cowboys, Texans, and Titans.

I think they'll be favored in 6 of the remaining 7 and maybe all 7. Just look at this weekend: 8-2 Indy 3.5 dogs in KC.

Sent from my Pixel 10 using Tapatalk

[MFaulkCollector]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Playoffs are going to be tough bc of the tiebreaker scenarios... but people are over analyzing things. This season has come down to one thing, and that's the entire team has not played good situational football. Which is wild, because last year they were amazing at playing good situational football.

On paper this team is absolutely better than last year. I think I heard they're 5th in total defense, 8th in total offense. They're +73, which is the 3rd best in the AFC (despite being 5-5). Mahomes is leading the NFL in total yards per game (3rd in passing yards per).

They just aren't playing well in close and crucial situations. 2 things stick out to me are lack of a consistent run threat, and opposing teams catching up to some of the stuff that Andy and Spags are doing.

That being said, no point in over analyzing things until 8 days from now. By then we'll know where they stand with what they can do the rest of the year.

They won every game last year that was close and some were freak occurrences. They have lost most of those types of games this year. Things tend to even out over time but there is a reason why the SB odds are the way they are for the Chiefs and Ravens. Ultimately I'm not prepared to count out the Chiefs

However... the concerning thing is having the weapons there for Mahomes.... when the past two years people are crying about no weapons.... and the offense still doesn't look like it should assuming you do have an all time great elite passer. Kelce can still maneuver in space and be productive, Worthy is still a dynamic game breaker...... Rice should be a 1400 10 TD guy with an elite QB.

I don't know if it's poor schematics, poor on field protections/audibles/being unprepared ........... but Mahomes does not seem to be doing what other top 5-10 QB's regularly were able to do through regular seasons in their prime. Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, other great pure passers and ridiculously high football IQ guys seemed to maneuver things much better than Mahomes has the past 2-3 years. I understand he has won a ton of games and even SB's...... but 27/28 TD passes in 17 game seasons the past two years and trending toward maybe a third sub 30 season in a row I feel like should be concerning. This is of course only contextualized by being compared to peak Brady/Manning/Rodgers/Brees statistically during regular seasons. Even if the Chiefs missed the playoffs this year but Mahomes started to look like 4-5 years ago it wouldn't matter. The Patrick who won MVP's and 1 SB early was a better and more exciting player than the Patrick who has since won 2 more SB's playing at what appears to be a lesser version of himself.


The problem with them missing the playoffs is that he doesn't look right either. Brady led the league in TD passes in 02 when they missed so nobody cares. Brees missed a bunch throwing 40 td passes because the defense was terrible, nobody cared. Rodgers missed in 18 and 19 and looked kinda bad too even with the TD/INT ratio, that's a stain on his resume.

At the end of the day though I wouldn't be betting against Mahomes if the game mattered; unless it was against Brady. Between the Ravens actively trying to lose playoff games, the Bills finding ways to lose to the Chiefs in the playoffs a new way each year...... and the Bengals actively trying to make their team worse each year since 2021........ I see no imminent threat if the Chiefs get in the playoffs (other than potentially the Patriots). The Broncos are not a really good team, the Colts are not a really good team, the Chargers are not a really good team. I think the Patriots and Bills could present real problems, but until someone actually beats the Chiefs before the final 4... I'll go ahead and stick with them

[KardsC1]

If you actually watch chiefs play, you would understand …if you just look at social media or highlights, you don’t see the real picture

The chiefs are NO question better offensively this year that last several years ..the stretch from Ravens to commanders, they were winning by a large margin …their point differential was bigger in that span vs all of last year …

There are TWO glaring problems why they are INCONSISTENT
-they are not making the leverage plays like they did in prior years..ex: Chris jones allowing Herbert to get that final 1st down…chiefs going 0-3 the last two drives this Sunday ..etc

-mahomes himself has not felt settled in the pocket the last two games …that’s a combo of him and his Oline ..

I will hold judgment this Sunday if they can make a run…if they lose, there is no hope…if they win, there is a clear path to the playoffs ..Cowboys , Texans , titans and raiders are almost Ws…I can’t see a scenario where chiefs lose twice to broncos and chargers …I could be wrong obviously
Chiefs will be favored in all 7 games by Vegas ..guess what, Vegas does not care about people’s feelings or fandom…they go off of analytics

That being said, upsets can always happen

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by MFaulkCollector

They won every game last year that was close and some were freak occurrences. They have lost most of those types of games this year. Things tend to even out over time but there is a reason why the SB odds are the way they are for the Chiefs and Ravens. Ultimately I'm not prepared to count out the Chiefs

However... the concerning thing is having the weapons there for Mahomes.... when the past two years people are crying about no weapons.... and the offense still doesn't look like it should assuming you do have an all time great elite passer. Kelce can still maneuver in space and be productive, Worthy is still a dynamic game breaker...... Rice should be a 1400 10 TD guy with an elite QB.

I don't know if it's poor schematics, poor on field protections/audibles/being unprepared ........... but Mahomes does not seem to be doing what other top 5-10 QB's regularly were able to do through regular seasons in their prime. Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, other great pure passers and ridiculously high football IQ guys seemed to maneuver things much better than Mahomes has the past 2-3 years. I understand he has won a ton of games and even SB's...... but 27/28 TD passes in 17 game seasons the past two years and trending toward maybe a third sub 30 season in a row I feel like should be concerning. This is of course only contextualized by being compared to peak Brady/Manning/Rodgers/Brees statistically during regular seasons. Even if the Chiefs missed the playoffs this year but Mahomes started to look like 4-5 years ago it wouldn't matter. The Patrick who won MVP's and 1 SB early was a better and more exciting player than the Patrick who has since won 2 more SB's playing at what appears to be a lesser version of himself.


The problem with them missing the playoffs is that he doesn't look right either. Brady led the league in TD passes in 02 when they missed so nobody cares. Brees missed a bunch throwing 40 td passes because the defense was terrible, nobody cared. Rodgers missed in 18 and 19 and looked kinda bad too even with the TD/INT ratio, that's a stain on his resume.

At the end of the day though I wouldn't be betting against Mahomes if the game mattered; unless it was against Brady. Between the Ravens actively trying to lose playoff games, the Bills finding ways to lose to the Chiefs in the playoffs a new way each year...... and the Bengals actively trying to make their team worse each year since 2021........ I see no imminent threat if the Chiefs get in the playoffs (other than potentially the Patriots). The Broncos are not a really good team, the Colts are not a really good team, the Chargers are not a really good team. I think the Patriots and Bills could present real problems, but until someone actually beats the Chiefs before the final 4... I'll go ahead and stick with them

Some good points. A couple thoughts:

I'm not really worried about stats this year. At his current pace based on the first 10 games, Mahomes is on pace for:

4.463 passing yards
31 Passing TD
490 Rushing yards
7 Rushing TDs
3rd in the NFL in QBR

Keep in mind that nobody is putting up peak Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Roethlisberger, or even Mahomes passing numbers right now because passing is so far down in this era. Rather than give you the entire year by year list, I'll just say that passing yards per game league wide is once again at lowest since it's all time peak in 2015 when it was at 244 yards per game at just 213 this season. That isn't to say that this will go down as a particularly great statistical year, but it's still be near top of the league.

As for the team.. I'm still trying to figure out what to make of them. The reason for optimism is that they're 4-1 at home this season, outscoring opponents by 79 points. The 1 loss was to the Eagles, when they were without both Worthy and Rice...hardly a bad loss. Their 3 away games the rest of this year and the Cowboys, Titans, and Raiders.

Again, it all comes back to where they sit 8 days from now. Part of me wants to count them out now, but part of me remembers the Christmas day debacle against the Raiders 2 years ago where they turned it around and went on to win the Super Bowl

[Delta5]

Originally Posted by daveyc1

I think there is a lot of pressure on KC this season. roster has some holes/WR room does not look as good as some hoped pre-season/Kelce getting older-slower/Jones has regressed and is showing lack of focus-effort.

With that in mind, I recently read that Mahomes salary cap hit for the next 2 seasons will be $74MM and $78MM respectively! that is going to put a huge damper on filling/fixing roster problems. his hit alone will be around 27% of the cap! to add, Chris Jones cap hit for next season will be $41MM. that means 40% of next years cap hit will be wrapped up in only 2 players!! that is pretty staggering. I expect Jones will be released after the 26 season as KC have an option for him.

the reason for Mahomes huge hits coming up are because of salary restructures. Veach has done a great job managing the cap for the last 5 years or so, but there is only so far he can kick the can down the road before there is a salary cap "comeuppance" it seems KC has about reached that limit for restructures under the cap, then it will be time for a franchise rebuild.

that is why it was so important for KC to win THIS season. it sure seems lean times are ahead with KC's salary cap situation in the very near future.

I mean you still have one of the best TE ever in Travis no? You also have Holliwood brown, Worthy, Rice and supposedly the best offensive coach of all time? And yet your offense is a HUGE letdown. Hey, what's going on??

[Delta5]

Originally Posted by TSonn

I'm not worried. This KC team, on paper, is better than their last two SB winners.

Losing to Buffalo in Buffalo and Denver in Denver during the regular season is not surprising. The first 3 losses they weren't healthy.

They should go on a bit of a run here and should end up around 11-6 to end the season. Probably no home field in the playoffs but I'd rather have a better roster and no home field than a mediocre roster and home field (like last year).

Go on a run?? LOLL they are 0-5 against playoff team