8 Players on Contemporary Era HOF ballot announced.

[JRX]

Murphy's avg would be one of lowest for hall of fame. He doesn't have 500 HR, he doesn't have 3k hits, and he's not regarded as top defensive player. Yes he has 5 gold gloves, but everyone knows those awards were popularity contests. His def metrics on fangraphs aren't say Andruw Jones esque. That to me is why he's not in. Mattingly is not in because he's being held to the standard that longevity matters more than peak. Though its really hard to argue that Puckett should be in but not him.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by carlo16

Guess that’s it. You proved launch angle wrong and the steroid era can be boiled down to backspin.

He didn't actually swing down on the ball -- his bat path was slightly up through the ball: https://youtu.be/LGU0Vf5P5pc?si=rlibYLzrLhGvO1QW

When a great hitter says they swing down on the ball, they don't mean their bat path at point of contact is downward -- they mean they start their swing downward until it reaches the plain of the ball, and then the path becomes slightly upward: https://youtu.be/Wg3w8V9WkHE?si=ILw6K7W9ER75oObL

With the Giants, Kent stood taller at the plate, with his hands higher and feet closer together. This allowed him to free up his hands and generate more torque in his swing.

[DioBrando]

Kinda curious for those who sell on ebay, have you gotten bid cancellation/return requests for any Mattingly or Murphy cards yet?

[2010GBPackers]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

This year focused on players who made the bulk of their contributions to baseball post-1980

Flood retired in 1971

You're right. I'm confusing last year and this year. He should have been on last year's ballot with Dick Allen and Dave Parker. Regardless, he should be in.

[DaBaddestHic]

Obviously sorta sad Delgado didn't make it in. But also fine with not having a HOF price bump as I continue towards my goal of super collecting him! I'm at 3000+ unique cards as of this year, and thought I was running out of things to get other than the big whales, but that's not actually true. I started making a list of what I'm missing yesterday, and found 50 cards just through 1995.

So I have three years to really whittle down my needs list and THEN they can put him in haha.

I somehow didn't realize that his career was ended by a hip injury. I just assumed his final season was cut short because his production fell off of a cliff. I bet he'd be in already if that hadn't happened, as he probably would have easily gotten to the 500 HR mark. But for me it's all in good fun. I've enjoyed the chase, whether he gets in or not in the end has not what it's been about.

[carlo16]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

He didn't actually swing down on the ball -- his bat path was slightly up through the ball: https://youtu.be/LGU0Vf5P5pc?si=rlibYLzrLhGvO1QW

When a great hitter says they swing down on the ball, they don't mean their bat path at point of contact is downward -- they mean they start their swing downward until it reaches the plain of the ball, and then the path becomes slightly upward: https://youtu.be/Wg3w8V9WkHE?si=ILw6K7W9ER75oObL

With the Giants, Kent stood taller at the plate, with his hands higher and feet closer together. This allowed him to free up his hands and generate more torque in his swing.

So hitters swing up through the ball? So launch angle is correct? Please tell me more about this torque and how the hands being higher generate more. You realize 99% of all hitters are in basically the exact same position when they actually launch their swing? Go google.
Stick to numbers.
Tell Will Clark he doesnt swing down on the ball.

You know so little about actual baseball it's astounding. Please tell me you at least played little league.

[Handsome Wes]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

You're right. I'm confusing last year and this year. He should have been on last year's ballot with Dick Allen and Dave Parker. Regardless, he should be in.

I'd argue that Flood should be considered under next year's committee, as I'd say Flood's greatest contribution to the game came not as a player, but as a pioneer (next year in the managers / umpires / executives ballot).

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by carlo16

So hitters swing up through the ball? So launch angle is correct? Please tell me more about this torque and how the hands being higher generate more. You realize 99% of all hitters are in basically the exact same position when they actually launch their swing? Go google.
Stick to numbers.
Tell Will Clark he doesnt swing down on the ball.

You know so little about actual baseball it's astounding. Please tell me you at least played little league.

Kent was a rotational hitter. With his hands higher and feet closer together in his stance, it allowed him to generate more separation in his load, which translated to more torque in his swing.

Clark was more of a front-foot hitter -- he'd take a long stride and throw the bat at the ball, with a slight upper cut.

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by DaBaddestHic

Obviously sorta sad Delgado didn't make it in.

Fair or unfair when I think of Delgado the first thing I think of was him boycotting God Bless America. Obv should have no impact on his HOF credentials, but as we've seen with Schilling it obv does since he would easily be in politics asside

[carlo16]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Kent was a rotational hitter. With his hands higher and feet closer together in his stance, it allowed him to generate more separation in his load, which translated to more torque in his swing.

Clark was more of a front-foot hitter -- he'd take a long stride and throw the bat at the ball, with a slight upper cut.

Oh my god make it stop. Just stick to babip and jaws.

Ok I’ll bite. Gimme more about this front foot hitter. Also tell me more about Will Clark’s uppercut.

[49ersSF]

Originally Posted by Handsome Wes

I'd argue that Flood should be considered under next year's committee, as I'd say Flood's greatest contribution to the game came not as a player, but as a pioneer (next year in the managers / umpires / executives ballot).

Curt Flood is a solid choice.

However, I do think they should really focus on Lefty O'Doul. His contributions are extraordinary. As a major league player, he is a lifetime .349 hitter (.352 in the PCL which was nearly at an equal level as MLB at the time). As a manager, he is considered the most successful coach in PCL history. He managed from 1935 to 1957.

Lefty's greatest contribution to the sport of baseball came when he helped popularize the sport in Japan. Originally, he brought teams of major league players to Japan (players like Ruth), which led to popularizing the sport so much that Japan created a professional league. The Tokyo Giants were named as such because Lefty played for the Giants. He was so beloved in Japan that after WWII in 1949, the President and General MacArthur decided that the only person who could help reopen dialogue and contact with Japan was Lefty O'Doul. He was sent over there as a goodwill ambassador, and they welcomed him like a hero. This act opened the door for Japan and the US to become eventual allies. His effects can be seen on the field today as the MVP and WS MVP are both Japanese players.

I should point out here that I am a bit biased, as a young kid, my grandfather and great uncle would tell me stories about this SF legend. Both were long-time friends of Lefty, going back to the 1920s. I never realized his true greatness until years later, and now I'm always hoping his legacy lands in the Hall of Fame.

[Hootiefish]

Originally Posted by 49ersSF

Curt Flood is a solid choice.

However, I do think they should really focus on Lefty O'Doul. His contributions are extraordinary. As a major league player, he is a lifetime .349 hitter (.352 in the PCL which was nearly at an equal level as MLB at the time). As a manager, he is considered the most successful coach in PCL history. He managed from 1935 to 1957.

Lefty's greatest contribution to the sport of baseball came when he helped popularize the sport in Japan. Originally, he brought teams of major league players to Japan (players like Ruth), which led to popularizing the sport so much that Japan created a professional league. The Tokyo Giants were named as such because Lefty played for the Giants. He was so beloved in Japan that after WWII in 1949, the President and General MacArthur decided that the only person who could help reopen dialogue and contact with Japan was Lefty O'Doul. He was sent over there as a goodwill ambassador, and they welcomed him like a hero. This act opened the door for Japan and the US to become eventual allies. His effects can be seen on the field today as the MVP and WS MVP are both Japanese players.

I should point out here that I am a bit biased, as a young kid, my grandfather and great uncle would tell me stories about this SF legend. Both were long-time friends of Lefty, going back to the 1920s. I never realized his true greatness until years later, and now I'm always hoping his legacy lands in the Hall of Fame.

I agree ... the Hall of Fame needs to do a better job recognizing those whose influence extends far beyond the field. It practically took an act of Congress to get Buck O’Neil inducted, which is a travesty, as that honor should have come while he was still alive.

Fernando Valenzuela, Hideo Nomo, Curt Flood — each was a great player, but their significance reaches well past their on-field accomplishments. Without Fernandomania, do teams even bother investing in scouting Mexico? Without Nomo’s early success, do we ever get an Ohtani? And every MLB player — and NBA, NFL, and NHL player — owes a debt to Curt Flood.

[StateEx]

Surprised with all the discussion of Bonds/Clemens that there hasn't been more discussion of their non-steroid-related off-field issues. Domestic violence? Check. Alleged affair with a 15 year old? Check. I'd like to think steroids aren't the only thing keeping them out of the hall.

[hxcmilkshake]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Kent was a rotational hitter. With his hands higher and feet closer together in his stance, it allowed him to generate more separation in his load, which translated to more torque in his swing.



Clark was more of a front-foot hitter -- he'd take a long stride and throw the bat at the ball, with a slight upper cut.

I could make a snide comment about needing more separation in my load but I wont. Too classy.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by carlo16

Ok I’ll bite. Gimme more about this front foot hitter. Also tell me more about Will Clark’s uppercut.

A front-foot hitter is more linear in their swing.

Here is a good video of Clark's swing: https://youtu.be/PPgtMkDZi7Y?t=208

Notice how he takes a long stride towards the pitcher and almost all of his weight shifts forward, causing his back foot to skid forward. He thrusts his hips and throws the bat head at the ball, using his front leg as a fulcrum point. His bat path is slightly upward at contact due him dropping his back shoulder.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by StateEx

Surprised with all the discussion of Bonds/Clemens that there hasn't been more discussion of their non-steroid-related off-field issues. Domestic violence? Check. Alleged affair with a 15 year old? Check. I'd like to think steroids aren't the only thing keeping them out of the hall.

That's not why they're being kept out -- they're being kept out because they played in an era where their dirty laundry was aired publicly for all to see, which scandalized them, and because they were made the faces of the steroid era due to them being the best players in the game at the time. There are Hall of Famers that have done much worse, but they weren't scandalized due to the public not knowing about their bad behavior.

Bonds and Clemens were never suspended by MLB and they don't have criminal records. But they were scandalized and villainized to death by the media. No one should feel sorry for them, but it's true that they were made scapegoats of the steroid era.

[carlo16]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

A front-foot hitter is more linear in their swing.

Here is a good video of Clark's swing: https://youtu.be/PPgtMkDZi7Y?t=208

Notice how he takes a long stride towards the pitcher and almost all of his weight shifts forward, causing his back foot to skid forward. He thrusts his hips and throws the bat head at the ball, using his front leg as a fulcrum point. His bat path is slightly upward at contact due him dropping his back shoulder.

Stick to numbers. You are clueless.

If you ever told Will Clark his bath path is upward because he drops his back shoulder he might fight you.
All of his weight shifting forward lolololol

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by carlo16

Oh my god make it stop. Just stick to babip and jaws.

Ok I’ll bite. Gimme more about this front foot hitter. Also tell me more about Will Clark’s uppercut.

Didn't he knock out Mike Tyson with it?

[jrosales]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

You're right. I'm confusing last year and this year. He should have been on last year's ballot with Dick Allen and Dave Parker. Regardless, he should be in.

Flood should be in...as a contributor.

As a player, he's nowhere near a HOFer.

I've long said that the HOF needs to make an 'overall contributors' category. This way, people like Buck O'Neil can easily fit into the HOF instead of being shoehorned into a random category like 'Executive' (a category he has no business being a HOFer in).

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by carlo16

Stick to numbers. You are clueless.

If you ever told Will Clark his bath path is upward because he drops his back shoulder he might fight you.
All of his weight shifting forward lolololol

Dipping his back shoulder:


Swinging up through the ball:

[carlo16]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Dipping his back shoulder:


Swinging up through the ball:

You’re brutal. Jon Snow knew more than you.

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by carlo16

So hitters swing up through the ball? So launch angle is correct? Please tell me more about this torque and how the hands being higher generate more. You realize 99% of all hitters are in basically the exact same position when they actually launch their swing? Go google.
Stick to numbers.
Tell Will Clark he doesnt swing down on the ball.

You know so little about actual baseball it's astounding. Please tell me you at least played little league.

Yes hitters swing up on the ball to match the plane of the incoming pitch, which approaches the plate at a downward angle.

https://www.mlb.com/news/new-statcas...4585e171b3676a

I'm not sure why you insult people when you are ill informed.

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by carlo16

You’re brutal. Jon Snow knew more than you.

He shows you pictures that clearly demonstrate you are wrong and you insult him....

[PuddleMonkey]

Originally Posted by carlo16

If you ever told Will Clark his bath path is upward because he drops his back shoulder he might fight you.

Thanks for the tip, I'd love an opportunity to pop Will Clark in the mouth. He needs to suffer for the amount of times he hurt me as a child coming through in the clutch with that ugly smirk on his face.

[PuddleMonkey]

Originally Posted by JRX

Mattingly is not in because he's being held to the standard that longevity matters more than peak. Though its really hard to argue that Puckett should be in but not him.

If there's a will, there's a way. You should be stanning for players not named Donnie.