Legit JSA Sticker?

[rnocards]

Hi,

Can you guys confirm if this JSA sticker is legitimate?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/38913496537...nger+auto+1983

Look at the back of the card for the sticker. There is no cert number on it, so that I can verify it online on JSA's site. I asked the seller (stclaircards) on what is the JSA cert number on the auto, and seller's reply was: "There isn’t one. This is a basic certification for items under $50".

I don't understand. How is this a legit JSA sticker? This looks like a counterfeit sticker, but I'm not certain, because it may be something new that JSA is doing? I asked Google A.I., and it said:

"Yes, JSA (James Spence Authentication) offers a Basic Certification (COA) for lower-value items, typically under $300, which includes a unique number on a registration card and a matching tamper-evident sticker, with the sticker having the number on it for verification."

So, the A.I. confirms that JSA stickers have to come with cert numbers, even on low value items. But, what I'm really confused about is eBay's reply, when I brought this up to them. This was their reply:

"We looked into your report and didn’t find the listing to be in violation of our policy. This determination was made by a customer service agent.."

This makes no sense.

Thanks.

[inaka]

Think of it this way: If the sticker has no certification number that could be cross-referenced to their online database, then that means it's easy to duplicate, making it worthless.

Also, check the seller's other items. He has an auto from Mickey Mantle that also has this "generic" JSA authentication, along with a Muhammad Ali auto card as well as well with the same generic sticker.

Those items aren't basic items valued under $50, so why the "generic" JSA sticker on those? This all seems highly suspicious, and I would have zero confidence in that sticker or that seller, but that's just me.

[oddstuff]

Seriously doubt eBay actually do much investigating when an item is reported...most likely a bot/AI response. I wouldn't touch anything from this seller.

[rnocards]

Exactly. eBay's response is what pissed me off the most. It is their responsibility to shield the public from highly suspicious stuff, especially if they are reported.

Very good point that inaka made on the Mantle and Ali, because it completely repels and undercuts the seller's argument.

[Sonnys88]

Originally Posted by rnocards

Exactly. eBay's response is what pissed me off the most. It is their responsibility to shield the public from highly suspicious stuff, especially if they are reported.

Very good point that inaka made on the Mantle and Ali, because it completely repels and undercuts the seller's argument.

JSA did use similar non-serial #ed stickers on lower dollar autographed items. Never seen one on a Mantle though - so that is out of the ordinary. The Gehringer card appears fine - he signed a ton over the years and was easily accessible via mail. I would not be concerned buying that one, but if you are concerned, slabbed examples of his signed cards come up often.

It is the ultimate responsibility of the buyer to do their due diligence before buying anything.

eBay put the Authenticity Guarantee process in place for higher dollar cards and faced a lot of backlash from some people who said "I don't need eBay to tell me if what I am buying is real!". And there are still people who complain today that their purchase has to go through the Authenticity process before going to them.

eBay is damned if they do and damned if they don't. And it is impossible for them to be the expert on everything that gets sold on their platform.

[rnocards]

Originally Posted by Sonnys88

JSA did use similar non-serial #ed stickers on lower dollar autographed items. Never seen one on a Mantle though - so that is out of the ordinary. The Gehringer card appears fine - he signed a ton over the years and was easily accessible via mail. I would not be concerned buying that one, but if you are concerned, slabbed examples of his signed cards come up often.

It is the ultimate responsibility of the buyer to do their due diligence before buying anything.

eBay put the Authenticity Guarantee process in place for higher dollar cards and faced a lot of backlash from some people who said "I don't need eBay to tell me if what I am buying is real!". And there are still people who complain today that their purchase has to go through the Authenticity process before going to them.

eBay is damned if they do and damned if they don't. And it is impossible for them to be the expert on everything that gets sold on their platform.

Do you have an example of what a similar non-serial numbered JSA sticker, on low value items, would look like? I asked A.I. if JSA had ever done that, and it answered no. This was its response:



I think these non-numbered stickers were fraudulently made and mass duplicated. I'm just not convinced at all that they are legit. I'm referring to the stickers themselves, and not necessarily the autographs they supposedly authenticate. Not being an authenticator myself, I can't determine the authenticity of these and other autos, which is why I rely heavily on TPGs like JSA, BAS, and PSA/DNA.

I highly suspect that these "JSA" stickers are probably connected to the massive fraud that attacked JSA, and which was uncovered this year. Read this:



I brought these up to the seller, but he has not responded.

As far as eBay, I don't expect them to be perfect, but I do expect them to seriously investigate a report. Their response to me was amateurish. A simple statement that the listing is not in violation of their policy is not enough. They need to show me why then does the sticker not have a number attached to it, and how then does one verify the sticker online, if the sticker is legitimate and consistent with their policy.

[Gkozsportscards]

it's fine, they had a program called "stamp of approval" they used to do for (I think) $3 a card, if under $20 in value

[rnocards]

Originally Posted by Gkozsportscards

it's fine, they had a program called "stamp of approval" they used to do for (I think) $3 a card, if under $20 in value

Ok, show me what the stamp of approval sticker looks like.

[rnocards]

Well... apparently they did. Stupid contradictory A.I. told me no earlier, until I specified with further detail in the question:

[Sonnys88]

There are BILLIONS of items sold on eBay every year. It is impossible for them to "seriously" investigate every report someone makes about an item - and simultaneously be the expert on whatever item is being reported.

As I already said, it is the ultimate responsibility of the buyer to do their due diligence before bidding on or buying an item.

If you don't understand what you are looking at - then don't bid on it or buy it. And don't rely AI to tell you what is real and what is not...

[rnocards]

Originally Posted by Sonnys88

There are BILLIONS of items sold on eBay every year. It is impossible for them to "seriously" investigate every report someone makes about an item - and simultaneously be the expert on whatever item is being reported.

It is eBay's responsibility to seriously investigate any report of fraud made on their platform, otherwise why have the reporting feature at all? If they provide a feature to report a potential fraud, then they need to have experts that can properly make a meaningful response to the report.

Originally Posted by Sonnys88

As I already said, it is the ultimate responsibility of the buyer to do their due diligence before bidding on or buying an item.

I did not bid or buy the item. This is why I'm asking questions, posting on forums... etc., to get some ideas from the more experienced members on these issues that affect collectors and the hobby in general.

Originally Posted by Sonnys88

If you don't understand what you are looking at - then don't bid on it or buy it. And don't rely AI to tell you what is real and what is not...

AI mostly has been a good tool, making things easier to search for and providing nice detailed responses, but sometimes I do notice apparent contradictory replies when the questions are not precise. It's a learning tool, mostly helpful, but sometimes unreliable.

As far as your statement that if you don't understand something then don't buy it... is actually good advice, and the reason why, again, I'm posting questions on a forum, asking the seller, searching the net, etc., to get a better understanding of the item.

However, a statement like that might also benefit the scammer, because it can allow him to deflect from having to give reasonable answers to questions on his item. In this example... Buyer: "why does the high value Mantle auto have this generic sticker if this sticker is for low value items?" Scamming Seller: "If you don't understand, don't buy it". That's it... a deflection, a conversation killer, no reasonable answer given. Meanwhile, the scam item remains on eBay until a gullible person who doesn't ask probing questions like that comes along and buys the item.

[csmtampa]

The JSA stamp of approval sticker on this Erskine is genuine. Like the poster earlier said, it was for items $20 and under. I had a ton of these done. They got rid of it because of issues like the ones you see now. Mantle or any other premium name would never get a Stamp of Approval sticker. I wouldn't doubt that there are counterfeit stamp of approval stickers out there.

And that AI is wrong as they did have non serial #'ed stickers for the Stamp of Approval program

[rnocards]

Originally Posted by csmtampa

The JSA stamp of approval sticker on this Erskine is genuine. Like the poster earlier said, it was for items $20 and under. I had a ton of these done. They got rid of it because of issues like the ones you see now. Mantle or any other premium name would never get a Stamp of Approval sticker. I wouldn't doubt that there are counterfeit stamp of approval stickers out there.

And that AI is wrong as they did have non serial #'ed stickers for the Stamp of Approval program

Cool, thanks. Yeah, I doubt the stickers on the high value Mantle or Ali items are genuine, because that would completely contradict the premise that this stamp of approval program was only for low value items.

I think JSA probably should never have had such a program, even if their intention was simply to cater to the low value market, because of how incredibly easy for scammers to fake these. All one has to do is pull one of these stickers out of an authentic but cheap auto, and place it onto a fake Jordan or Ruth auto, and claim JSA authenticity. This was a complete mistake, in my opinion, that JSA decided at one time to run such a program.