LeBron James career!

[calmar]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

LOL, Kobe hater?

No hate. Kobe belongs in the 10-15 range. The irrationality comes from those who wildly overrate him.

He ranks between 13 and 66 all time in VORP, PER, WS/48, and Box +/- for the regular season and playoffs. And he fares no better in clutch shooting stats.

There are no advanced stats which indicate he was the best player in the NBA at any time during his career. None. He has no black ink in any of the most important advanced stats. None. You cannot say that about anyone else ranked above him, all of whom have plenty of black ink.

And all of them won AT LEAST two championships as the best player on their team. Kobe did win two.

[robert0629]

Originally Posted by calmar

No hate. Kobe belongs in the 10-15 range. The irrationality comes from those who wildly overrate him.

He ranks between 13 and 66 all time in VORP, PER, WS/48, and Box +/- for the regular season and playoffs. And he fares no better in clutch shooting stats.

There are no advanced stats which indicate he was the best player in the NBA at any time during his career. None. He has no black ink in any of the most important advanced stats. None. You cannot say that about anyone else ranked above him, all of whom have plenty of black ink.

And all of them won AT LEAST two championships as the best player on their team. Kobe did win two.

Magic has very little black ink in advanced stats. So, why do you have him ranked so high? I bet I could find plenty of players with more black ink in advanced stats than Magic that aren't on your list. Dr. J for one. That is if we're counting ABA stats. That's pretty weak reasoning for keeping Kobe off your top 10.

Both James Harden and Giannis have more black ink in advanced stats than Magic. Should we rank them over Magic all time?

The problem with advanced stats, is we can over rank players who are great in these categories. Both Harden and Chris Paul have plenty of black ink in advanced metrics, but they never won anything. Even Jokic has been somewhat of a disappointment in the playoffs despite winning one chip. If you look at the Jokers advanced stats, it’s like they invented advanced stats for him. And yet come playoff time, he’s not the same player. His fans want to blame his teammates, but it’s not always their fault. If the Nuggets drop this 1st round series, it’s going to look bad for Jokic.

Back to Kobe. How about the eye test? Kobe's considered one of the most skilled players who ever touched a basketball. He was one of the most double teamed players in NBA history. If he wasn't good enough to make a top 10 list, then why were his opponents so afraid of him that they had to constantly double him up? Grant Hill said Kobe was the most difficult player he ever had to guard. He guarded both Jordan and LeBron during his career. Hill was terrified when he had to face Kobe, because he knew he was impossible to stop.

By the way, you're putting Curry over Kobe all time is laughable. Steph did win 2 regular season MVP Awards to Kobe's 1. However, Kobe has 5 chips to Curry's 4. Kobe has 2 Finals MVP Awards to Curry's 1. Kobe finished top 5 in regular season MVP voting 11 times to Curry's 4 times. And Kobe was a 9 time first team All-Defensive selections to Curry's 0.

I love Curry, but I don’t see why he’s appearing on so many top 10 lists. He’s never made an All-Defensive team for his entire career. Apparently, you don’t need to play great defense to make a top 10 list these days.

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by calmar

No hate. Kobe belongs in the 10-15 range. The irrationality comes from those who wildly overrate him.

He ranks between 13 and 66 all time in VORP, PER, WS/48, and Box +/- for the regular season and playoffs. And he fares no better in clutch shooting stats.

There are no advanced stats which indicate he was the best player in the NBA at any time during his career. None. He has no black ink in any of the most important advanced stats. None. You cannot say that about anyone else ranked above him, all of whom have plenty of black ink.

And all of them won AT LEAST two championships as the best player on their team. Kobe did win two.

Different era dude.

You can't compare guys like Kobe that were responsible for every shot with 3 seconds or less to guys in the last decade or so (like LeBron) that are well aware of their counting stats and percentages.

Shaq and Kobe were 1a and 1b. Just an incredible duo. Maybe the best even and Shaq just had the better match up generally. Nobody could stop him. The quality centres were all done at that point.

I think Kobe is still better than Steph but that's a coin flip to be fair.

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by calmar

1) MJ
2) LeBron
3) Kareem
4) Russell
5) Wilt
6) Duncan
7) Magic
8) Bird
9) Shaq
10) Steph

In saying that, this list is pretty legit.

Putting my boy TD above Magic and Bird, bravo.

Kobe, Hakeem and maybe Dirk should be next. 11, 12 and 13 I mean

Only because I'm not familiar enough with Oscar and Jerry. I'll leave that to old man Rats...

[robert0629]

Since somebody mention this, I wanted to comment on Magic versus LeBron. Although, I would rank LeBron over Magic all time, it’s pretty close. If Magic wasn’t forced into early retirement, it might be a different story. Magic ended his career with 9 straight top 3 MVP finishes, including winning the award 3 times.

In Game 6 of the 1980 Finals, with Kareem sidelined due to an injury, a 21 year old Magic scored 42 points, grabbed 15 boards, and added 7 assists to lead the Lakers to a championship over the 76ers. For the series, Magic had 21.5 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 8.7 apg, while shooting .573 from the floor and .875 from the line, and winning the Finals MVP Award.

At a similar age, a 22 year old LeBron was laying an egg in a Finals series. LeBron had 22.0 ppg, 7.0 rpg, and 6.8 apg, while shooting just .356 from the floor and .690 from the line in a sweep by the Spurs. And it wasn’t because he was being double teamed. The Spurs defensive strategy was to prevent him from driving to the hoop and getting easy baskets. They forced him to take jump shots, and he couldn’t make them. He had plenty of open looks, and just missed. Nobody expected LeBron to win this series, but his performance was beyond bad. There were at least two winnable games in this series. The Cavs defense kept them in those games, but LeBron could do nothing on offense in the fourth quarters. On the NBA's biggest stage, Magic showed us what an all time great does, whereas LeBron did the opposite.

It’s true that Magic was drafted into a better situation than LeBron, but each player played with some great players, and they both also faced tough competition throughout their careers. Later in his career, Magic’s supporting cast wasn’t as good as some think. Sure, he still had Worthy, but Kareem was barely an average center in the last few years of his career. Just to show how important Magic was to the Lakers. In the 1989 NBA Playoffs, Magic led the Lakers to 3 series sweeps on their way to the Finals (11-0). That’s not easy to do. In fact, I think it’s only been done a couple of times ever. In the Finals, they lose game 1 to the Pistons. But in game 2, the Lakers held an 8 point lead heading into the fourth quarter when magic suffered a hamstring injury and was forced to head to the bench. The Lakers couldn't hold the lead and dropped game 2 with Magic missing the fourth quarter. Magic attempted to play in game 3, but only played a few minutes. The Lakers would go on to lose this game and game 4 without Magic.

In his final season, while having one of his best seasons ever and finishing 2nd in MVP voting, Magic would lead his Lakers team to another NBA Finals without Kareem. What would his overall career look like had he not been forced into an early retirement?

I would rank LeBron over Magic only because he played longer. LeBron was a little bit better in the playoffs. He has 4 Finals MVP Awards to Magic's 3, although Magic got cheated out of 1. But ultimately, it's LeBron's overall body of work and longevity stats that give him a slight edge over Magic all time.

[BoSoxFan1999]

Originally Posted by asujbl

Nah

It was just super lame

Do better

It's like he doesn't even bother to try anymore. Just recycles old, lame LeBron jabs.

[pingbling23]

Originally Posted by robert0629

Since somebody mention this, I wanted to comment on Magic versus LeBron. Although, I would rank LeBron over Magic all time, it’s pretty close. If Magic wasn’t forced into early retirement, it might be a different story. Magic ended his career with 9 straight top 3 MVP finishes, including winning the award 3 times.

In Game 6 of the 1980 Finals, with Kareem sidelined due to an injury, a 21 year old Magic scored 42 points, grabbed 15 boards, and added 7 assists to lead the Lakers to a championship over the 76ers. For the series, Magic had 21.5 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 8.7 apg, while shooting .573 from the floor and .875 from the line, and winning the Finals MVP Award.

At a similar age, a 22 year old LeBron was laying an egg in a Finals series. LeBron had 22.0 ppg, 7.0 rpg, and 6.8 apg, while shooting just .356 from the floor and .690 from the line in a sweep by the Spurs. And it wasn’t because he was being double teamed. The Spurs defensive strategy was to prevent him from driving to the hoop and getting easy baskets. They forced him to take jump shots, and he couldn’t make them. He had plenty of open looks, and just missed. Nobody expected LeBron to win this series, but his performance was beyond bad. There were at least two winnable games in this series. The Cavs defense kept them in those games, but LeBron could do nothing on offense in the fourth quarters. On the NBA's biggest stage, Magic showed us what an all time great does, whereas LeBron did the opposite.

It’s true that Magic was drafted into a better situation than LeBron, but each player played with some great players, and they both also faced tough competition throughout their careers. Later in his career, Magic’s supporting cast wasn’t as good as some think. Sure, he still had Worthy, but Kareem was barely an average center in the last few years of his career. Just to show how important Magic was to the Lakers. In the 1989 NBA Playoffs, Magic led the Lakers to 3 series sweeps on their way to the Finals (11-0). That’s not easy to do. In fact, I think it’s only been done a couple of times ever. In the Finals, they lose game 1 to the Pistons. But in game 2, the Lakers held an 8 point lead heading into the fourth quarter when magic suffered a hamstring injury and was forced to head to the bench. The Lakers couldn't hold the lead and dropped game 2 with Magic missing the fourth quarter. Magic attempted to play in game 3, but only played a few minutes. The Lakers would go on to lose this game and game 4 without Magic.

In his final season, while having one of his best seasons ever and finishing 2nd in MVP voting, Magic would lead his Lakers team to another NBA Finals without Kareem. What would his overall career look like had he not been forced into an early retirement?

I would rank LeBron over Magic only because he played longer. LeBron was a little bit better in the playoffs. He has 4 Finals MVP Awards to Magic's 3, although Magic got cheated out of 1. But ultimately, it's LeBron's overall body of work and longevity stats that give him a slight edge over Magic all time.

It’s more than longevity that makes LeBron better than magic. I’m not sure if it’s bias or you’re being disingenuous. When the lakers won the title in 1980 Kareem was regular season mvp and he played 5/6 games of the finals averaging 33/14 with 5 blocks a game. To act like magic was even remotely in the same situation as LeBron carrying those cavs to the finals isn’t correct. Magic had an impressive game 6 but Kareem was dominating the series.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by BoSoxFan1999

It's like he doesn't even bother to try anymore. Just recycles old, lame LeBron jabs.

The hypocrisy of Bron bois:

After Laker wins - what can’t this man do, and he’s doing it at 41!

After Laker losses - this man can’t win with the Latvian girls figure skating team on his roster, plus he’s 41, what do you expect?

I didn’t realize there were two different LeBron James on the same team

[pingbling23]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

The hypocrisy of Bron bois:

After Laker wins - what can’t this man do, and he’s doing it at 41!

After Laker losses - this man can’t win with the Latvian girls figure skating team on his roster, plus he’s 41, what do you expect?

I didn’t realize there were two different LeBron James on the same team

If you’re not intellectually inept, 2 things can be true. What LeBron is doing at this age is impressive and when the lakers eventually lose it’s understandable since LeBron is old and they are missing 2 of their best players. If they return it’s not like they are going to be at or near 100%.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by pingbling23

If you’re not intellectually inept, 2 things can be true. What LeBron is doing at this age is impressive and when the lakers eventually lose it’s understandable since LeBron is old and they are missing 2 of their best players. If they return it’s not like they are going to be at or near 100%.

I just hear Lexcuses.

Why can’t Bron bois just say, the Lakers loss is on Bron.

But no, it’s always, it’s not fair Bron had to play with Mary Lou Retton and Danny devito as his teammates.

The illogical minds of Bron bois continues to baffle.

[Kingofkings1281]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

I just hear Lexcuses.

Why can’t Bron bois just say, the Lakers loss is on Bron.

But no, it’s always, it’s not fair Bron had to play with Mary Lou Retton and Danny devito as his teammates.

The illogical minds of Bron bois continues to baffle.

How many lockers did he stuff you in?

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by Kingofkings1281

How many lockers did he stuff you in?

Zero.

He would always miss the opportunity when the class bell rang.

[pingbling23]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

I just hear Lexcuses.

Why can’t Bron bois just say, the Lakers loss is on Bron.

But no, it’s always, it’s not fair Bron had to play with Mary Lou Retton and Danny devito as his teammates.

The illogical minds of Bron bois continues to baffle.

You can place blame wherever you like and I can give factual reasons to bolster my opinions. The joys of effective communication.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by pingbling23

You can place blame wherever you like and I can give factual reasons to bolster my opinions. The joys of effective communication.

Ah, so use Bron’s age as a pump and a crutch simultaneously.

Got it.

Lehypocrites.

Bron bois are like the people who fake injuries to get a handicap parking tag.

[pingbling23]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Ah, so use Bron’s age as a pump and a crutch simultaneously.

Got it.

Lehypocrites.

Bron bois are like the people who fake injuries to get a handicap parking tag.

It’s not normal nor healthy to be this way. I have pity for you and wish you the best.

[blackbears86]

Originally Posted by blackbears86

rough night all around for the Lakers.


Lebron looked old/ugly (-37) and Luka hurt. YUCK.


The Spurs or Thunder are coming out of the west anyway, but it was nice to see the Lakers playing well.

Here's evidence I'm impartial Hermano. Guess you don't remember this post.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by blackbears86

Here's evidence I'm impartial Hermano. Guess you don't remember this post.

You have achieved semi-homer status.

[eastbayak]

Originally Posted by calmar

1) MJ
2) LeBron
3) Kareem
4) Russell
5) Wilt
6) Duncan
7) Magic
8) Bird
9) Shaq
10) Steph

This is actually a great list.

I could see Wilt being at 3, but otherwise, looks perfect.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by eastbayak

This is actually a great list.

I could see Wilt being at 3, but otherwise, looks perfect.

Shoot, you could replace LeBron with Kobe and still have a great list.

[Asian62150]

Originally Posted by eastbayak

This is actually a great list.

I could see Wilt being at 3, but otherwise, looks perfect.

It's hard for me to put Wilt above Russell.

11 rings to 2.

Russell beat Wilt in head to head matchups.

Russell had HOF teammates but so did Wilt. And when Wilt averaged 50/26, Russell was MVP in a landslide.

[Sticks33]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Lehypocrites.

Bron bois are like the people who fake injuries to get a handicap parking tag.

I see now. You use “Le____” to insult those who disagree with you. So clever! You really are a wordsmith. Let me try:

LeBron haters have a Lelack of critical thinking. They can’t understand Lelogic when it comes to this topic. They think they are Lecute by typing in a Ledumb way. But actually they’re Lerevealing how much LeBron is in their head by using part of his name all the time.

How’d I do?!

[exitmusicblue]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Shoot, you could replace LeBron with Kobe and still have a great list.

Bwahahaha...

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by Sticks33

I see now. You use “Le____” to insult those who disagree with you. So clever! You really are a wordsmith. Let me try:

LeBron haters have a Lelack of critical thinking. They can’t understand Lelogic when it comes to this topic. They think they are Lecute by typing in a Ledumb way. But actually they’re Lerevealing how much LeBron is in their head by using part of his name all the time.

How’d I do?!

Now you’re speaking our language!

[exitmusicblue]

Some real LeGeniuses in here.

[Sticks33]

Originally Posted by exitmusicblue

Some real LeGeniuses in here.

Hey, 2nd Hermano is here. Really missed your Leinsight and depth of Leknowledge.