2013 NFL HOF Class Finalists announced...

[dbrown]

Kevin Greene

[FreeMan12406]

Originally Posted by HBMC

Play a different position, WR and Safety are two of the worst spots for HOF consideration.

All the punters and kickers shake their heads.

[ohiomike]

Locks
Larry Allen (G/T)
Jonathan Ogden (OT)
Dave Robinson (LB) (better of the two senior committee finalists)

Should be locks, but probably are 50/50 at best this year (all get in either this year or next IMO)
Jerome Bettis (RB)
Tim Brown (WR)
Cris Carter (WR)
Andre Reed (WR)
Will Shields (G)
Michael Strahan (DE)

[allday_vikes]

Originally Posted by garpike

The Pro Football Hall of Fame Selection Committee's 17 finalists for 2013:

Larry Allen (G/T)
Jerome Bettis (RB)
Tim Brown (WR)
Cris Carter (WR)
Curley Culp (DT/G)
Edward DeBartolo Jr. (owner)
Kevin Greene (LB)
Charles Haley (DE)
Art Modell (owner)
Jonathan Ogden (OT)
Bill Parcells (coach)
Andre Reed (WR)
Dave Robinson (LB)
Warren Sapp (DT)
Will Shields (G)
Michael Strahan (DE)
Aeneas Williams (CB)

So...who do think should get in this year??

these are my pick

[88horsepower]

I don't see how Jonathan Ogden doesn't get in on the first try. The man was the single best left tackle in the NFL during his prime. Even during his down years he was better than 90% of the league's tackles. Larry Allen is a no-brainer as well. And, yes, the logjam at wide receiver is pathetic. Andre Reed should have gotten in years ago and the same could be said for Tim Brown and Cris Carter. Just insane how those three guys are still hanging around on the ballot as if they're not worthy of being enshrined. Reed was literally THE premier wide receiver in the AFC during his peak years when he and Jim Kelly were one of the hottest 1-2 punches in the league. Just makes ZERO sense that he's not in yet. As for Bettis, I thought he was a sure thing when he retired. Now he's on his third try and it seems he's a question mark every January when this conversation comes up.

[asujbl]

If Modell gets in then they are going to have to do his induction from a remote site. It won't be safe to do it in Canton.

[jusdukky]

Originally Posted by panamamyers

Allen has to get in.
I hate the Cowboys, but if he does not get in on the first ballot then we need new voters. He is up there with Hannah, Munoz and Matthews.

Not arguing with your statement at all but Will Shields should be right there as well.

2/2 on making the final HOF list since becoming eligible.

Came off the bench the first game of his rookie year and went on from there to start 231 consecutive games.

12 Pro Bowls

9 time All Pro

Named to the 2000's All Decade Team

4 division titles and 6 playoff appearances for KC.

Walter Payton man of the year award.

Totally agree that the 3 WR's should get in as well.

[allday_vikes]

Originally Posted by popmaz

While I agree with this statement, I would like to point out that the logjam at wr begins with Andre Reed. I believe all 3 are deserving, but I seem to be one of the few that would put Reed in before CC or Brown.

The only thing everyone remembered Andre for was his fight against Deion Sanders. Wait, that's not even the right Andre.

Andre Reed was good but not anywhere near CC or Tim Brown, so he's way behind those two.

[ohiomike]

Hall will have to address the WR's next year if they don't this year. Marvin Harrison is about the only new worthy player eligible in 2014. No way does he go in before Brown-Carter-Reed. My guess is they ignore them again this year, and put all three in next year. And while I fully believe Harrison deserves a spot, it will be a slap in the "logjam trio's" face to put him in first time... he'll have to wait.

[popmaz]

Originally Posted by allday_vikes

The only thing everyone remembered Andre for was his fight against Deion Sanders. Wait, that's not even the right Andre.

Andre Reed was good but not anywhere near CC or Tim Brown, so he's way behind those two.

Now that is truly comical. "not anywhere near CC or Tim Brown"
Thanks! I really needed a good laugh today.

[allday_vikes]

Originally Posted by popmaz

Now that is truly comical. "not anywhere near CC or Tim Brown"
Thanks! I really needed a good laugh today.

You welcome, sometimes the funniest thing is the truth!

[popmaz]

Originally Posted by allday_vikes

You welcome, sometimes the funniest thing is the truth!

Yeah. Fortunatley for Andre Reed, this is not one of those times

[BAMBAM]

Originally Posted by garpike

The Pro Football Hall of Fame Selection Committee's 17 finalists for 2013:

Larry Allen (G/T)
Jerome Bettis (RB)
Tim Brown (WR)
Cris Carter (WR)
Curley Culp (DT/G)
Edward DeBartolo Jr. (owner)
Kevin Greene (LB)
Charles Haley (DE)
Art Modell (owner)
Jonathan Ogden (OT)
Bill Parcells (coach)
Andre Reed (WR)
Dave Robinson (LB)
Warren Sapp (DT)
Will Shields (G)
Michael Strahan (DE)
Aeneas Williams (CB)

So...who do think should get in this year??

Allen, Bettis, Carter, Reed, Ogden and maybe Andre Reed.... finally. Reed should have been in long ago. I'd like to see Tim Brown in but I'd be surprised if all three got in at once.


I don't see any way Strahan is first ballot worthy. Some good years, some not so good years and only one or two tremendous seasons. He didn't dominate throughout his career like the other 3 first ballot guys did.

I'd put Eddie DeBartolo in before Modell but Modell will probably get in since he passed recently.

The veterans committee will probably put in Curley Culp this time around.

[88horsepower]

Originally Posted by allday_vikes

You welcome, sometimes the funniest thing is the truth!

Actually, I'm inclined to agree with you. If there's ever a case for a player who accumulated stats over the course of a long career but never had a stretch of true "greatness" at the WR position it might be Reed. Although I do think he was one of the best WR's of his time, a good argument could be made that he compiled great overall numbers due to longevity. He only had four 1,000-yard seasons and only once had double-digit TD totals. I'm still saying he's worthy of being enshrined, but he's way behind Brown and Carter. in terms of accomplishments. I think the thing that makes Reed more attractive is how much he showed up in the postseason as opposed to Brown and Carter. Of course, Reed got to the postseason quite a bit during his stretch run in Buffalo, but he also made many of those appearances count.

[88horsepower]

Originally Posted by popmaz

Yeah. Fortunatley for Andre Reed, this is not one of those times

Just look at the numbers:

Reed: 4 seasons with 1,000+ yards receiving
Carter: 8 straight seasons with 1,000+ yards receiving
Brown: 9 straight seasons with 1,000+ yards receiving

Reed: 1 seasons with double-digit TDs
Carter: 6 seasons with double-digit TDs (led league 3 times)
Brown: 2 seasons with double-digit TDs

Reed: 0 seasons with 100 receptions
Carter: 2 seasons with 100+ receptions (led league one time)
Brown: 1 season with 100+ receptions

I think that says it all, man. Don't get me wrong, I love Andre Reed, but in terms of what he accomplished compared to Brown and Carter, he's behind them.

[BAMBAM]

Originally Posted by allday_vikes

The only thing everyone remembered Andre for was his fight against Deion Sanders. Wait, that's not even the right Andre.

Andre Reed was good but not anywhere near CC or Tim Brown, so he's way behind those two.

Glad you don't speak for everyone. You must not have watched too many Bills games if you believe that he's way behind Carter and Brown.

Only thing Carter had on Reed was he had better hands, IMO the best hands of the three. Reed earned the tough yards over the middle and very few could run after the catch like Reed did, certainly not Carter. Plus he played all his home games outdoors in Buffalo not a dome or sunny California. HUGE difference.

[HBMC]

Originally Posted by dfr52

I'll add G and TE to that list as well.

I agree as well. TE will be a little better with the current crop of guys still playing:

In:
Jason Witten
Tony Gonzalez

Maybe:
Antonio Gates

Could be if their careers are long:
Jimmy Graham
Rob Gronkowski

Guard is loaded with quality players too. So many guys eho should be in.

[popmaz]

Originally Posted by 88horsepower

Just look at the numbers:

Reed: 4 seasons with 1,000+ yards receiving
Carter: 8 straight seasons with 1,000+ yards receiving
Brown: 9 straight seasons with 1,000+ yards receiving

Reed: 1 seasons with double-digit TDs
Carter: 6 seasons with double-digit TDs (led league 3 times)
Brown: 2 seasons with double-digit TDs

Reed: 0 seasons with 100 receptions
Carter: 2 seasons with 100+ receptions (led league one time)
Brown: 1 season with 100+ receptions

I think that says it all, man. Don't get me wrong, I love Andre Reed, but in terms of what he accomplished compared to Brown and Carter, he's behind them.

Reed:4 Super Bowl appearances
Carter and Brown Combined: 1
Now this is a fun stat and oddly enough the exact stat that kept Art Monk out of the HOF for so long.....
Career yards per reception
Brown 13.65
Carter 12.63
Reed 13.88
Keep in mind a few things.
1. I hate the Bills
2. I never said Carter andnor Brown may not be ahead of Reed, I just said it is not "far" ahead and it is only stats wise.
3. Reed always played big in the postseason, did he have more opportunitues? Maybe. But one would think that he helped create said opportunities.
4. And I cannot state this emphatically enough, I hated the 90' Bills! But I would take Andre Reed over Carter and Brown all day based on watching them all play.

[sd_navarre]

Would love to see this guy get in - very deserving.

[HBMC]

Originally Posted by FreeMan12406

All the punters and kickers shake their heads.

I'm purposely ignoring them as there is one dedicated Kicker in the hall. Until the selection committees feel the need to include them, then there will be legitimate claims of them needing to be in. Until then, the argument is fruitless.

[NamesJay]

I can't imagine Sapp not being voted in on first ballot. But as a Tampa Bay fan I got to see him play every day - and he was a beast.

[Imac7065]

Originally Posted by HBMC

I'm purposely ignoring them as there is one dedicated Kicker in the hall. Until the selection committees feel the need to include them, then there will be legitimate claims of them needing to be in. Until then, the argument is fruitless.

I am a bit biased but Garo Yapremian more or less created the modern kicker. Before him (and another guy who flamed out) kickers were OL's or just the fattest guy on the team who had a decent leg. Garo created the "sepcialist" and is one of the resasons the FG post was moved to the back of the end zone.

For that revolution he should be in the HOF.. just my opinion though.

[panamamyers]

In my opinion, the most important stat to look at is the number of times you finished in the top 5-10 in yards per game. This stats is all relative to how much the rest of the league is passing, so you can't claim that the league is more pass-happy now.

Andre Reed has some explaining to do as to why he only finished in the top 10 three times in his career in that category. Never higher than 5th in the NFL. For his career, there are 71 receivers ahead of him. Obviously a lot of those are in more recent pass-happy times, but still...you got guys like Muhsin Muhammad ahead of him. You got guys like Mark Clayton ahead of him. Anthony Miller is ahead of him.

You can put a little bit of stock into longevity type stats, but at some point you needed to be one of the 2 or 3 best players at your position for a stretch of years.

Tim Brown finished in the top 10 five times. Top 5 three times.

Cris Carter finished top 10 four times, but never higher than 7th.
1993, he finished 7th, behind Anthony Miller, Andre Rison.
1995 he finished 7th behind such luminaries as Brett Perriman and Robert Brooks.

Let's look at Jerry Rice. He finished 1st in this category six different times. Obvious Hall of Famer.
Michael Irvin, six times in the top 10, four times in the top 2. Obvious Hall of Famer.
Randy Moss, eight times in the top 10. Seven times in the top 5. Obvious Hall of Famer
Terrell Owens, six times top 10, four times top 5. Obvious Hall of Famer.

Anquan Boldin a Hall of Famer to you guys? He has four top 10 finishes and three top 5 finishes. He already has more of a case than Andre Reed, but I don't think anyone mistakes Boldin for a Hall of Fame guy.

[popmaz]

Please do the math and let me know where the following players fell by your stat:
Art Monk
Charlie Joiner
John Stallworth
Wes Chandler
Mark Duper
Mark Clayton and Tony Martin
I am just curious. That is all. Thanks.

[dfr52]

Originally Posted by jusdukky

Not arguing with your statement at all but Will Shields should be right there as well.

2/2 on making the final HOF list since becoming eligible.

Came off the bench the first game of his rookie year and went on from there to start 231 consecutive games.

12 Pro Bowls

9 time All Pro

Named to the 2000's All Decade Team

4 division titles and 6 playoff appearances for KC.

Walter Payton man of the year award.

Totally agree that the 3 WR's should get in as well.

According to profootballreference.com Shields was a 2 x 1st team All Pro.