2 weeks left, who's the AL MVP?

[uberfatty]

Originally Posted by zonacats8

Go watch a Tigers game and tell me that it doesn't exist

How many times has Trout been walked out of pure fear of accidentally hanging a pitch on a hitters count?

Probably not even a fraction of Cabrera, I can't imagine the amount of times this year he's gotten 2-0 and then they just decide to put him on base because they're afraid of that "get me over fastball" getting deposited into the seats.

That puts him on base for Fielder LOTS of times

Also you just have to see the amount of GREAT hitters pitches that Hunter gets because they are too afraid to walk someone with Cabrera coming up behind them.

If you don't think teams are gaming around Cabrera's bat more than any other player in the league, then you don't know baseball and haven't seen the Tigers play much this year.

Originally Posted by zonacats8

Can I prove it with numbers?

No, I can not, but that doesn't mean there aren't numbers out there for it somewhere.

But can I "prove" it by what I've seen with my own eyes from watching about 75% of Tigers games this year?

Absolutely

Here's a couple numbers that refute your gut:

Trout walks, 2013: 104
Cabrera walks, 2013: 90

I also took the liberty of looking up Torii Hunter fastball's seen percentage:

Torii Hunter, 2012 (Angels): 61.4%
Torii Hunter, 2013 (Tigers): 59.5%

See that's the thing when you trust your eyes/gut and choose to ignore the "facts". A lot of the time, you are dead wrong.

I'm not saying Cabrera isn't a better hitter than Trout (he most certainly is), I'm saying your fantasy about lineup construction and magical benefits on the rest of team is just that - a fantasy. It does not exist.

[VeedonFleece]

Originally Posted by uberfatty

Here's a couple numbers that refute your gut:
...

Enjoyed reading your posts on this thread but your precious WAR forgets to include Miggy's 5 wins worth of intangibles!

Seriously, you'll not convince zonacats. He's the biggest homer on the boards.

[uberfatty]

Originally Posted by VeedonFleece

Enjoyed reading your posts on this thread but your precious WAR forgets to include Miggy's 5 wins worth of intangibles!

Seriously, you'll not convince zonacats. He's the biggest homer on the boards.

I love how the intangible stuff doesn't come out until they realize the tangible stuff favors the "other" player. Then it's straight to the bag of tricks to find the next unprovable argument in favor of their guy.

"bu-bu-but Cabrera has TEH FEAR"

[Tugarpj]

Originally Posted by IsaacB4Sale

I know he will win, but he shouldn't. Also, don't make excuses for his defence. It's bad.

Not making excuses. He has 12 errors. Beltre and Machado each have 13.

[Ajax1723]

Originally Posted by Tugarpj

Not making excuses. He has 12 errors. Beltre and Machado each have 13.

Machado's Fielding Percentage: .973


Miguel Cabrera's Fielding Percentage: .957

You can't just count the number of errors and leave it at that. Machado has 13 errors in 484 chances. Miguel Cabrera has 12 errors in 277 chances.

[lobo_hacker]

Originally Posted by uberfatty

Here's a couple numbers that refute your gut:

Trout walks, 2013: 104
Cabrera walks, 2013: 90
.

-Cabrera has twice the amount of intentional walks that Trout does. That's double (okay, only 10 more, but still) the run producing potential given to the hitter behind him simply because pitchers want to avoid him.

Not sure if that counts for much of anything, and i am certain arguments can be made as to what that might indicate (slower runner/better double play opp, for instance), but thought it was worth mentioning.

lobo_hacker

[8lakers24]

Originally Posted by IsaacB4Sale

It's not whether he will win, it's whether he should win.

when trout can get his team to the playoffs he will get an mvp as well, cabrera had to go through this as well when he lost out on an mvp to josh hamilton (cabrera was the better player but the tigers didnt make the playoffs and the rangers did)

[uberfatty]

Originally Posted by lobo_hacker

-Cabrera has twice the amount of intentional walks that Trout does. That's double (okay, only 10 more, but still) the run producing potential given to the hitter behind him simply because pitchers want to avoid him.

Not sure if that counts for much of anything, and i am certain arguments can be made as to what that might indicate (slower runner/better double play opp, for instance), but thought it was worth mentioning.

lobo_hacker

It's 18 to 10, so sure it is a piece of the puzzle but so small that probably not worth parsing through (for instance, Trout batting leadoff would never be IBB'd to open a game).

[Tugarpj]

[IsaacB4Sale]

Originally Posted by Tugarpj

Not making excuses. He has 12 errors. Beltre and Machado each have 13.

Come on now. Errors are an awful stat, almost as bad as FLD %

If a guy makes 50 errors in a season, but he gets to 100 balls that no one would get to, are the errors relevant?

[Tugarpj]

Originally Posted by IsaacB4Sale

Come on now. Errors are an awful stat, almost as bad as FLD %

If a guy makes 50 errors in a season, but he gets to 100 balls that no one would get to, are the errors relevant?

I'm sick of hearing everyone say what is and isn't a legit stat. He's a hitter in a league of his own. That's reason enough for the MVP.

[IsaacB4Sale]

Originally Posted by Tugarpj

I'm sick of hearing everyone say what is and isn't a legit stat. He's a hitter in a league of his own. That's reason enough for the MVP.

It's really not, especially when you are really bad at the other 2 aspects of the game.

Trout is top 3 hitter, elite fielder, elite baserunner.

That should be reason enough.

[uberfatty]

Originally Posted by Tugarpj

I'm sick of hearing everyone say what is and isn't a legit stat. He's a hitter in a league of his own. That's reason enough for the MVP.

I'm sick of hearing everyone say what is and isn't a legit stat. He's an all around player in a league of his own. That's reason enough for the MVP.

^^^^Trouted

[Tugarpj]

Yeah yeah yeah. We'll see.

[WCTYSON]

Who will win it:





Who should win it:

[WCTYSON]

Originally Posted by uberfatty

I'll just drop this here, a great read for those unaware of just how good Trout is (and 90% of the article is solely his batting!), and for everyone that is amazed at what he's done already too.

Mike Trout's quest for MVP and his great performance in the major league - Grantland

Amazing read. Thanks for dropping some knowledge.

[8lakers24]

nothing better than watching all these trout fans crying once again because they know he wont win the mvp.. so all they can do is post pictures of miguel cabrera after being arrested. Hey maybe trout will have a chance when cabrera retires

[uberfatty]

Originally Posted by 8lakers24

nothing better than watching all these trout fans crying once again because they know he wont win the mvp.. so all they can do is post pictures of miguel cabrera after being arrested. Hey maybe trout will have a chance when cabrera retires

I'm a baseball fan, love trout and miggy. I like logic as well.

[uberfatty]

Originally Posted by Tugarpj

Yeah yeah yeah. We'll see.

Meh, the vote won't be close. I'm coming from a perfect world perspective. The BBWAA is handing this to miggy in a landslide.