Pablo Sandoval Signs With the Red Sox

[SaveMeTheGum]

I like both moves. Not love, but like. Getting to see Sandoval play everyday out here in the Bay Area, he's a solid fielder with a cannon for arm. He's also a clutch hitter, which I know is tough to quantify, but he comes through more often than not -- especially in the post season.

Hanley is interesting. He gives infield depth even if they plan to use him in the OF, and he provides a solid bat that can play pretty much anywhere in the lineup.

Overall, I'm happy with the moves. But the team will only go as far as pitching takes them, so they still have A LOT of work to do.

[BostonNut]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Heh, you still can't get past that bad game against the Jets huh?

Except it was a great game.

[Bosox34]

It's actually 18 million for Hanley. They have Owens and Barnes in the minors and I think Ranaudo can hold his own in the rotation

[jandr272]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

A $200M payroll and little to no developed talent from the last X years. It's clear to me Boston is changing philosophy.

We're starting to act like the Yankees, and it makes me sad

[IamRalpho]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

That's right; they're going to use a lot of their farm for trade to bring a couple of SP's and a couple of RP's to round out the roster. At the end of the day, you're going to have FA after FA in the field, with little to nothing from the farm. A few SP's to add, a few RP's to add, and the mantra from Boston will stray from developing talent, to just buying it.

A $200M payroll and little to no developed talent from the last X years. It's clear to me Boston is changing philosophy. Again.

Developed talent? Seriously? Why are you so angry? Who's cards do you have a ton of that this will hurt?

Bogaerts
Ranaudo
Barnes
Betts
Vasquez
Pedroia
Buccholz

Plus they gave guys like Middlebrooks and Bradley enough time and they didnt perform, what do you want them to do? Keep trotting them out there?

You dont get extra World Series rings for winning with X amount of home grown players.

You need to do a mix of both, which the Sox have done in the past. 2004 was based off guys that were ALL acquired (Millar, Ortiz, Pedro, Manny, Schilling and Foulke) 2007 had Schilling, Ortiz, Manny as well as home grown guys, 2013 (Bought guys such as Ortiz, Napoli, Victorino and a mix of home grown)

I just dont understand why you are upset. Almost the entire IF this year was home grown, as well as 2/3 of the OF. But they sign 2 good FA's and they will never develop talent?

[IamRalpho]

Originally Posted by Bosox34

It's actually 18 million for Hanley. They have Owens and Barnes in the minors and I think Ranaudo can hold his own in the rotation

Turns out to be 4/88 so 22 a year but a year shorter. I can live with that

[IamRalpho]

Originally Posted by jandr272

We're starting to act like the Yankees, and it makes me sad

Be cool if the Yankees won 3 titles in the last 10 years or had a farm system in the upper tier of the minors, because the Yankees havent or dont have either.

[IamRalpho]

Also I am stuck at work and my boss is off so this is why I am posting like crazy

QUADRUPLE POST!

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by Bosox34

It's actually 18 million for Hanley. They have Owens and Barnes in the minors and I think Ranaudo can hold his own in the rotation

Four years - $88M. Fifth year option of $22M.

[jandr272]

Originally Posted by IamRalpho

Be cool if the Yankees won 3 titles in the last 10 years or had a farm system in the upper tier of the minors, because the Yankees havent or dont have either.

That is a very good point, to be honest.

[IamRalpho]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Four years - $88M. Fifth year option of $22M.

Well I wanna see the vesting option before I judge it as a 5 year deal. If its games played or something it might work out.

[dapro]

Now what for the Giants? Go after Lester or unproven out fielder in Tomas....

[gmsieb]

Now the sox will trade for hamels and sign/trade for another starter or 2. Yep, these signings suck.

I don't like the sox, as I am an Angels fan, but these are not horrible signings. Both have risk, but all do. They are not long contracts, both guys are trade able if needed.
Both should hit better in fenway than in their old parks. This opens the door to trade for guys like hamels, fister, iwakuma, zimmerman, cueto, leake, latos, or maybe sign one more FA like lester.

I am guessing the sox will be fine, while hoping they suck.

Many here are letting their hopes speak for them and looking like homers.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by Stevepeters298

hanley outfield, sandoval at 3rd

This ^^^^

Hanley will get familiar with the Green Monster very soon.

Also, the Sox have carried a $180 Million payroll before. Sadly they still have plenty of cash to blow on Lester.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by IamRalpho

Developed talent? Seriously? Why are you so angry? Who's cards do you have a ton of that this will hurt?

Bogaerts
Ranaudo
Barnes
Betts
Vasquez
Pedroia
Buccholz

Plus they gave guys like Middlebrooks and Bradley enough time and they didnt perform, what do you want them to do? Keep trotting them out there?

You dont get extra World Series rings for winning with X amount of home grown players.

You need to do a mix of both, which the Sox have done in the past. 2004 was based off guys that were ALL acquired (Millar, Ortiz, Pedro, Manny, Schilling and Foulke) 2007 had Schilling, Ortiz, Manny as well as home grown guys, 2013 (Bought guys such as Ortiz, Napoli, Victorino and a mix of home grown)

I just dont understand why you are upset. Almost the entire IF this year was home grown, as well as 2/3 of the OF. But they sign 2 good FA's and they will never develop talent?

Who's upset? This is simply a somewhat obvious observation that this team has transitioned to money monster this season based on their last three signings (Castillo / Sandoval / Ramirez).

When they trade Betts, Bradley, Owens, Swihart etc to bring in a guy like Hamels, and then spend another $150 million on an extension for Cueto, Latos, or whomever ... (by trading Cespedes), this team will field nothing but FA's and $$. They're not going to spend $300M on FA bats, and then throw Joe Kelly as their #1 in 2015. So get ready for another $300M on pitching, and a farm system gutted.

Boston is in somewhat of an unenviable position of having to move a lot of guys off the 40 man roster. Two signings today mean two guys already have to go, and it's likely going to be a lot more.

[benshobbies]

Interesting.....

Last year we went wild-out with the prospects chasing after each other....now we found the ones that worked....

And we go after veterans...

Pablo, Hanley, Ortiz, Pedroia....all can really help hone these guys. What we need though is to get the clubhouse blending together. I think its a good mix...

I think its a good strategy.

Now we have Cespedes, Middlebrooks, Bogearts, JBJ, and maybe even Renaudo asi trade bait for a good starting pitching.

If you don't trade Renaudo maybe you can put him in a middle-reliever spot as well that is empty.

Young raw talent needs older talent to hone & cut them down a bit. I think that is what the Red Sox are working...whittle out the raw talent & focus it on a World Series victory.

[IamRalpho]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Who's upset? This is simply a somewhat obvious observation that this team has transitioned to money monster this season based on their last three signings (Castillo / Sandoval / Ramirez).

When they trade Betts, Bradley, Owens, Swihart etc to bring in a guy like Hamels, and then spend another $150 million on an extension for Cueto, Latos, or whomever ... (by trading Cespedes), this team will field nothing but FA's and $$. They're not going to spend $300M on FA bats, and then throw Joe Kelly as their #1 in 2015. So get ready for another $300M on pitching, and a farm system gutted.

Boston is in somewhat of an unenviable position of having to move a lot of guys off the 40 man roster. Two signings today mean two guys already have to go, and it's likely going to be a lot more.

There needs to be a mix of veterans and home grown talent, something the Sox have had. This team finished last 2 of the last 3 years, I have no idea why you wanna keep doing what theyre doing since its not working as well as it should. I love how you lump Bradley into the group of higher end prospects who have never failed at the major league level like Bradley has. I wish Bradley worked out but he didnt, things changed. He busted out in Boston and they had to make a move, same with 3B.

"Transitioned into a money monster" even though their CF, RF, SS, 3B, SS, 2B, C, and half their pitching staff has been homegrown and resulted in failures at CF, 3B, and the pitching.

SMDH!

[Gator993]

Not sure how this is a shift in strategy. They have made almost extreme efforts to get rid of terrible contracts. I would argue that these are almost short term contracts in the age of 7+ year deals. It makes sense to pay more per season to keep the deal shorter. I think these are fairly smart contracts.

There per season payroll still wont balloon to where it was the summer of Crawford/Agon and those contracts were for much longer terms.

The farm system will always be a priority but whether you use the prospects on your BL squad or trade them for proven vets it is still your farm system that is supplying your BL roster. There is no CAP, you don't get extra brownie points for doing it with a smaller payroll.

The Red Sox are in a large market city and can afford to spend so signing the FA is not a concern I have if its smart contracts and done with a plan, which I believe these have. I expect some trades to fall once they find out what FA pitchers they are able to sign.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by IamRalpho

There needs to be a mix of veterans and home grown talent, something the Sox have had. This team finished last 2 of the last 3 years, I have no idea why you wanna keep doing what theyre doing since its not working as well as it should. I love how you lump Bradley into the group of higher end prospects who have never failed at the major league level like Bradley has. I wish Bradley worked out but he didnt, things changed. He busted out in Boston and they had to make a move, same with 3B.

"Transitioned into a money monster" even though their CF, RF, SS, 3B, SS, 2B, C, and half their pitching staff has been homegrown and resulted in failures at CF, 3B, and the pitching.

SMDH!

If you're talking specifically about 2014, then yes, Boston tried the home-grown thing. And it's clear they didn't like what they saw for the future, because they are now scrapping that idea, and targeting every big FA bat and FA pitcher they can. When a team plays young talent for one year, then decides to get rid of most of them to bring in big $$ signings, then that's not "trying it out". That's abandoning the idea of re-building from within, and throwing as much money toward the problem as you can.

If the Astros signed Sandoval and Ramirez, and were thinking of trading Springer, Singleton ... the same would be said. They've scrapped the farm system idea and are deciding to buy proven talent. It's no different here ...

You say "CF, RF, SS, 3B, SS, 2B, C, and half their pitching staff has been homegrown and resulted in failures at CF, 3B, and the pitching. " and that was for a total of one or two seasons. Cherrington has clearly changed his thought process, and rather than develop the pitching, and develop the OF, has decided to cash out on whatever he can get from Betts, Bradley, Ranaudo, Workman, Webster etc and go for the big FA pitchers. Boston wants to go from worst to first again; and it's going to cost them.

[IamRalpho]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

If you're talking specifically about 2014, then yes, Boston tried the home-grown thing. And it's clear they didn't like what they saw for the future, because they are now scrapping that idea, and targeting every big FA bat and FA pitcher they can. When a team plays young talent for one year, then decides to get rid of most of them to bring in big $$ signings, then that's not "trying it out". That's abandoning the idea of re-building from within, and throwing as much money toward the problem as you can.

If the Astros signed Sandoval and Ramirez, and were thinking of trading Springer, Singleton ... the same would be said. They've scrapped the farm system idea and are deciding to buy proven talent. It's no different here ...

You say "CF, RF, SS, 3B, SS, 2B, C, and half their pitching staff has been homegrown and resulted in failures at CF, 3B, and the pitching. " and that was for a total of one or two seasons. Cherrington has clearly changed his thought process, and rather than develop the pitching, and develop the OF, has decided to cash out on whatever he can get from Betts, Bradley, Ranaudo, Workman, Webster etc and go for the big FA pitchers. Boston wants to go from worst to first again; and it's going to cost them.

They havent abandoned anything. They signed 2 hitters on a team that had a terrible offense last year. How is that abandoning their farm system? Not to mention THEY HAVENT SIGNED ANY PITCHERS YET!

I dont understand how you can get mad at collecting assets and trading them, every team does it when the opportunity arises.

Red Sox havent traded one single prospect or major league player yet, they havent said Bogaerts and or Betts will be in the minors. Nothings changed. They had a weak offense, and they upgraded.

Plus they have the 7th pick in the draft this year, just more talent to infuse.

I wish BostonNut would come back, arguing about change in philosophy by signing 2 big bats is mind boggling. It comes a time when you cant start 9 3B or 10 starting pitchers and some hafta be traded. Maybe in your world you want to keep them all beacuse you have $$ invested in them but that doesnt happen ANYWHERE.

[Prospect Rush]

Originally Posted by IamRalpho

They havent abandoned anything. They signed 2 hitters on a team that had a terrible offense last year. How is that abandoning their farm system? Not to mention THEY HAVENT SIGNED ANY PITCHERS YET!

I dont understand how you can get mad at collecting assets and trading them, every team does it when the opportunity arises.

Red Sox havent traded one single prospect or major league player yet, they havent said Bogaerts and or Betts will be in the minors. Nothings changed. They had a weak offense, and they upgraded.

Plus they have the 7th pick in the draft this year, just more talent to infuse.

I wish BostonNut would come back, arguing about change in philosophy by signing 2 big bats is mind boggling. It comes a time when you cant start 9 3B or 10 starting pitchers and some hafta be traded. Maybe in your world you want to keep them all beacuse you have $$ invested in them but that doesnt happen ANYWHERE.

Dude, do some work, thats why they are paying you lol

[BostonNut]

Originally Posted by IamRalpho

I wish BostonNut would come back, arguing about change in philosophy by signing 2 big bats is mind boggling. It comes a time when you cant start 9 3B or 10 starting pitchers and some hafta be traded. Maybe in your world you want to keep them all beacuse you have $$ invested in them but that doesnt happen ANYWHERE.

Oh I'm right here. Just enjoying the back and forth. Chapmans may be more loony than Benshobbies if that is even possible.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by IamRalpho

They havent abandoned anything. They signed 2 hitters on a team that had a terrible offense last year. How is that abandoning their farm system? Not to mention THEY HAVENT SIGNED ANY PITCHERS YET!

I dont understand how you can get mad at collecting assets and trading them, every team does it when the opportunity arises.

Red Sox havent traded one single prospect or major league player yet, they havent said Bogaerts and or Betts will be in the minors. Nothings changed. They had a weak offense, and they upgraded.

Plus they have the 7th pick in the draft this year, just more talent to infuse.

I wish BostonNut would come back, arguing about change in philosophy by signing 2 big bats is mind boggling. It comes a time when you cant start 9 3B or 10 starting pitchers and some hafta be traded. Maybe in your world you want to keep them all beacuse you have $$ invested in them but that doesnt happen ANYWHERE.

Again, whose mad? Why do you keep saying I'm mad ... Mets to win the WS in 2015; this helps!

It's clear as crystal that with Bradley flopping, and Bogaerts flopping, Cherrington is gun-shy at losing value from his farm, and would rather spend to bring in the talent. He can't afford another year of bringing guys up that don't perform, so he's gonna trade "most" of it away for veterans.

Right now, the Red Sox have to get rid of two players (Francisco and Weeks most likely), and there's little doubt that Bradley, Betts and a slew of the Workman, Webster, Ranuado types are out the door before spring training. After the Red Sox sign Scherzer, and trade for Hamels, the team will resemble almost no youth, outside of the catching position (I expect Xander to be in AAA next year early).

It's simply a 180 from the direct this team was heading last season. It's no surprise considering how bad the Red Sox were last year, just an observation.

[sportstrader14]

Never mind.

[Bosox34]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Again, whose mad? Why do you keep saying I'm mad ... Mets to win the WS in 2015; this helps!

It's clear as crystal that with Bradley flopping, and Bogaerts flopping, Cherrington is gun-shy at losing value from his farm, and would rather spend to bring in the talent. He can't afford another year of bringing guys up that don't perform, so he's gonna trade "most" of it away for veterans.

Right now, the Red Sox have to get rid of two players (Francisco and Weeks most likely), and there's little doubt that Bradley, Betts and a slew of the Workman, Webster, Ranuado types are out the door before spring training. After the Red Sox sign Scherzer, and trade for Hamels, the team will resemble almost no youth, outside of the catching position (I expect Xander to be in AAA next year early).

It's simply a 180 from the direct this team was heading last season. It's no surprise considering how bad the Red Sox were last year, just an observation.

This is what we are getting back. The Red Sox have produced a ton of home-grown talent. The problem is,with Boston, is they have too much. They have too many guys on the field and obviously 2013 was a season where they were able to put together the home grown talent and it resulted in a WS championship. The problem is you can wait 3 years to put things together or you can sign free agents and make this team an instant contender. Boston is doing what they've always done. All these rumors about trading for Hamels is BS. I 99% guarantee they won't get him unless it's a great offer like trading Middlebrooks and lower end guys. Bogaerts is a key piece of this organization and so is Betts. They have contributed positively in many ways. Signing Lester or Scherzer and maybe pulling off a trade for Cueto or etc isn't going to hurt them. The Red Sox aren't the Yankees 2.0 . There payroll is not going over 200 million. They are simply finding a mix of free agents and home-grown talent to produce an instant contender. It isn't a 180. Last year Boston had time to give the prospects some seasoning in MLB and gain experience for years to come. Jackie Bradley is the odd man out. I see them trading Victorino and Nava, and then if JBJ can produce he's in, or else you can use Betts or Holt. I like what they are doing. They just need to add some pitchers and they should be pretty good. The first season may be a rough one since team chemistry has to strengthen but don't be surprised to see then win the AL East and a few championships in the years to come