Beckett grading "subjectivity" is an outright lie....

[CM Sports Memorabilia]

Originally Posted by poppincurbs

Grown men outraged by other grown men's .5 downgrade opinion of a card... lol. It's all a scam folks.

^^^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[JMPKCP]

Sure 43 9.5 subgrades and not one 10 subgrade makes sense. That's what people are trying to tell me. Or sell me.

[izybone]

If you take into account every card you've ever graded I don't think it's outlandish.

You're looking at it as out of 14, but I guarantee you have graded more. So 14 out of how many?

[jewcer2k5]

Originally Posted by JMPKCP

Sure 43 9.5 subgrades and not one 10 subgrade makes sense. That's what people are trying to tell me. Or sell me.

I don't believe anyone is trying to sell you anything. You are trying to sell everyone that BGS is out to get you so they gave you no 10 subgrades on your massive order of 14 cards.

[izybone]

Originally Posted by death2redemptions

Of course not! He's obviously being screwed by the man. How can you not see it???

I have found in life that someone is always screwing someone. True story.

[jewcer2k5]

Originally Posted by izybone

If you take into account every card you've ever graded I don't think it's outlandish.

You're looking at it as out of 14, but I guarantee you have graded more. So 14 out of how many?

Please leave common sense at the door.

[Hess687]

Originally Posted by JMPKCP

Sure 43 9.5 subgrades and not one 10 subgrade makes sense. That's what people are trying to tell me. Or sell me.

You should probably change your quote at the bottom to, "No matter what I do, I always seem to meet REALISTS."

Your whole reasoning behind this has so many surface dents and soft corners.....much like the cards you send in....

[Farmer]

Originally Posted by JMPKCP

My past results would disagree with you. With 10-20% of cards I submit coming back PRISTINE and well over half coming back GEM, getting cards graded has largely been a success for me. The real winner here is going to be you guys, because when I have time in the next couple days, I'm going to list my raw pile that was intended for my next submission on the BST. At pissed off prices, no less....

So this thread is a pre-listing spam/chumming of sorts?

[broadway6]

I will be sending my first order in September. I'm expecting the worst, but hoping for the best.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by jewcer2k5

I think this is a horrible blanket statement. This is a BUSINESS to some of us and grading pack fresh cards is a way to increase the value of our merchandise. If you don't want maximum value for your product that is on you, not on me.

Should I just open cases upon cases of product and sell all the contents for less than maximum value so someone else can make more? From the other standpoint, if this is your hobby and you collect cards do you think that people like me grading cards doesn't make it possible to open more product to get more cards to you?

Not sure quite how to respond to this, but I'll give it a shot....

The biggest problem I have with grading is that it is, for all intents and purposes, a scam. When you submit a card for grading, you are in essence paying a total stranger to give you their opinion. Not only that, but you have no idea whatsoever about the qualifications or training of the person(s) giving that opinion.

Given that Beckett and PSA are both for-profit companies, and therefore logically seeking to minimize their labor costs, you can safely assume that most graders are cubical drones with minimal experience and training being paid at or near minimum wage. Taking in that light, most reasonable people would conclude that their opinions about the condition of a sports card have little if any validity. Then add in the fact that people can and do resubmit a card multiple times until it receives the grade they want (thus proving that grading is neither accurate, expert, nor objective), and you can see why experienced collectors like myself place no value whatsoever on grades issued by grading companies like PSA and Beckett.

You state that grading "increases the value of your merchandise". I would seriously question the validity of that statement. IF you get the grade you want (for modern cards a PSA 10 or BGS 9.5), and if that card is in high demand, you might get a buyer to pay a premium. However, if you don't get the grade you want, not only have you needless spent money on getting the card graded, but the card may in fact now be worth less than it was raw, since the potential for it to get a perfect grade has now been eliminated from the equation. So while getting a perfect grade may increase the value of a card, it cannot be concluded that the mere act of submitting it for grading automatically does so.

As to your second point (that people like you opening cases and cases of product and grading cards make it possible to open more product to get more cards to me), all I can say is "Please Stop!". Case-breakers and investors are almost single-handedly responsible for driving up box prices to the point where ordinary collectors can no longer afford them.

[imbluestreak23]

I get what the OP is sellin', the BGS 10 stuff is a scam.

<<-- bumped 2 cards from BGS 10 10 9.5 9.5 to overall BGS 10 w/o cracking the case.

Again...scam.

[no10pin]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Given that Beckett and PSA are both for-profit companies, and therefore logically seeking to minimize their labor costs, you can safely assume that most graders are cubical drones with minimal experience and training being paid at or near minimum wage. Taking in that light, most reasonable people would conclude that their opinions about the condition of a sports card have little if any validity. Then add in the fact that people can and do resubmit a card multiple times until it receives the grade they want (thus proving that grading is neither accurate, expert, nor objective), and you can see why experienced collectors like myself place no value whatsoever on grades issued by grading companies like PSA and Beckett.

Wow, that is one giant assumption to make based entirely on the fact that PSA and Beckett are in business to make money. I guess that makes me a cubicle-dwelling drone making close to minimum wage too since I don't work for a charitable organization.

[Scottish Punk]

This thread is all talky talk. The only way to really see one side or the other is to re-submit those same 14 cards and see what the results are. If there is only 1-6 10's bumped, then you can chalk it up to randomness of subgrades. If there are more, than it is probably a grader on a bad day trying to get stuff out the door. I don't think malicious intent comes to play here.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by no10pin

Wow, that is one giant assumption to make based entirely on the fact that PSA and Beckett are in business to make money. I guess that makes me a cubicle-dwelling drone making close to minimum wage too since I don't work for a charitable organization.

It not an assumption. If you look hard enough, there have been plenty of interviews/articles/blog posts supporting my assertions since the grading companies first came into existence.

If PSA and Beckett employed graders who truly were "experts", information about their qualifications and training would be all over the front pages of their websites, especially since what they are really selling is their "expertise". In addition, they would provide customers with the names of the employees grading their cards when returning each submission (i.e. "your cards were graded by grader A and grader B).

Instead, the grading companies go out of their way to hide this information. For the record, I've requested information about the qualifications and training of graders from both Beckett and PSA and was rebuffed. In fact, just requesting that info was enough to get me kicked off the PSA message boards years ago. And when companies try to hide info from customers, it's usually because releasing the info will make them look bad.

[Scottish Punk]

Originally Posted by mfw13

It not an assumption. If you look hard enough, there have been plenty of interviews/articles/blog posts supporting my assertions since the grading companies first came into existence.

If PSA and Beckett employed graders who truly were "experts", information about their qualifications and training would be all over the front pages of their websites, especially since what they are really selling is their "expertise". In addition, they would provide customers with the names of the employees grading their cards when returning each submission (i.e. "your cards were graded by grader A and grader B).

Instead, the grading companies go out of their way to hide this information. For the record, I've requested information about the qualifications and training of graders from both Beckett and PSA and was rebuffed. In fact, just requesting that info was enough to get me kicked off the PSA message boards years ago. And when companies try to hide info from customers, it's usually because releasing the info will make them look bad.

It could also be for safety reasons. I could see collectors hounding graders for their bad grades or trying to get the "hook up". I DO think they should at least post the minimum requirements of all graders to give a piece of mind to the customer. My guess is they take collectors who are interested and get them trained up on the job. Maybe have a second grader approve stuff at the beginning.

[beavermoose]

Am I the only one thinking the original post has the terms "subjectivity" and "objectivity" confused?

[Peties Army]

Originally Posted by mfw13

It not an assumption. If you look hard enough, there have been plenty of interviews/articles/blog posts supporting my assertions since the grading companies first came into existence.

If PSA and Beckett employed graders who truly were "experts", information about their qualifications and training would be all over the front pages of their websites, especially since what they are really selling is their "expertise". In addition, they would provide customers with the names of the employees grading their cards when returning each submission (i.e. "your cards were graded by grader A and grader B).

Instead, the grading companies go out of their way to hide this information. For the record, I've requested information about the qualifications and training of graders from both Beckett and PSA and was rebuffed. In fact, just requesting that info was enough to get me kicked off the PSA message boards years ago. And when companies try to hide info from customers, it's usually because releasing the info will make them look bad.

I stopped reading after if you look hard enough you can find many.

Confusise say if you have to look hard there probably isn't many.

[Peties Army]

Originally Posted by beavermoose

Am I the only one thinking the original post has the terms "subjectivity" and "objectivity" confused?

I believe he has a lot of stuff confused

[Peties Army]

Originally Posted by Scottish Punk

This thread is all talky talk. The only way to really see one side or the other is to re-submit those same 14 cards and see what the results are. If there is only 1-6 10's bumped, then you can chalk it up to randomness of subgrades. If there are more, than it is probably a grader on a bad day trying to get stuff out the door. I don't think malicious intent comes to play here.

We all know this but it is more fun to yell in the Internet!!!!

I used to say "on the Internet" but I think in is probably better since I'm not "on" anything. Thoughts?

[Peties Army]

Originally Posted by mfw13

It not an assumption. If you look hard enough, there have been plenty of interviews/articles/blog posts supporting my assertions since the grading companies first came into existence.

If PSA and Beckett employed graders who truly were "experts", information about their qualifications and training would be all over the front pages of their websites, especially since what they are really selling is their "expertise". In addition, they would provide customers with the names of the employees grading their cards when returning each submission (i.e. "your cards were graded by grader A and grader B).

Instead, the grading companies go out of their way to hide this information. For the record, I've requested information about the qualifications and training of graders from both Beckett and PSA and was rebuffed. In fact, just requesting that info was enough to get me kicked off the PSA message boards years ago. And when companies try to hide info from customers, it's usually because releasing the info will make them look bad.

Is psa out to get you now too? First BGS and the op and now this guy in PSA. Those companies are vindictive clowns

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by Scottish Punk

It could also be for safety reasons. I could see collectors hounding graders for their bad grades or trying to get the "hook up". I DO think they should at least post the minimum requirements of all graders to give a piece of mind to the customer. My guess is they take collectors who are interested and get them trained up on the job. Maybe have a second grader approve stuff at the beginning.

If safety is a real concern, then they could use initials instead of full names.

But there is still no reason why they cannot post more information about qualifications and training.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by Peties Army

Is psa out to get you now too? First BGS and the op and now this guy in PSA. Those companies are vindictive clowns

Nope. I don't believe in grading and have never submitted a single card to be graded.

[Peties Army]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Nope. I don't believe in grading and have never submitted a single card to be graded.

do you wear a tinfoil hat?

[no10pin]

Originally Posted by mfw13

If safety is a real concern, then they could use initials instead of full names.

But there is still no reason why they cannot post more information about qualifications and training.

This is on their website. Are you suggesting they should tell you about individual employees?


Only "Beckett Certified Graders" are allowed to grade cards in BGS. Each grader must pass a certification training program based upon some of the hobby's finest sources in grading, tampering detection and counterfeit prevention.

[Keyser Soze]

I don't pretend to like the OP one bit, BUT, you guys are nuts if you think this isn't damning evidence against BGS. He's exactly right that it's unheard of, especially these days that 10 is the new 9.5, to not get a single 10 subgrade among 14 modern cards. Especially when many of those cards got a 9.5 overall.