NL Cy Young Poll...I can't believe I'm even posting this. - Page 11

death2redemptions · 10-03-2015, 09:18 PM

Looks like Greinke won't be recording a single CG Shutout this season.

dhcollecting · 10-03-2015, 10:05 PM

Another great outing for the best pitcher in baseball! To bad all you have to do is have a good 2nd half and you get all the media support.

SportsAutoFreak · 10-03-2015, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhcollecting

Another great outing for the best pitcher in baseball! To bad all you have to do is have a good 2nd half and you get all the media support.

I think good is a bit of an understatement there.

bulljh · 10-03-2015, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhcollecting

Another great outing for the best pitcher in baseball! To bad all you have to do is have a good 2nd half and you get all the media support.

It was a nice outing, not great

dhcollecting · 10-03-2015, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by death2redemptions

- Greinke almost made history with that run for the scoreless innings streak record but fell short. Arrieta actually did make history, posting the lowest ERA after the All-Star break.

- Arrieta threw a no-hitter & 3 shutouts. Greinke didn't record a single CG shutout all season

- While I don't personally care for the win/loss stat the voters do and Arrieta exceeded the 20 win landmark to lead the league with 22 wins but Greinke fell short with 18 wins

- Greinke leads in ERA by a small margin and leads WHIP by an even smaller margin but Arrieta leads in every other important pitching category by much larger margins.

4 CG vs. 1 CG (Arrieta leads the league)
3 SHO vs. 0 SHO (Arrieta leads the league)
229 IP vs. 214.2 IP (Arrieta leads the league)
236 SO vs. 192 SO
2.35 FIP vs. 2.75 FIP
7.3 fWAR vs. 5.7 fWAR (Arrieta leads the league)
22 Wins vs. 18 Wins (Arrieta leads the league)
.185 OPP avg vs. .188 OPP avg (Arrieta leads the league)

Lets play this game

Grienke leads in:

ERA
WHIP
Avg Innings Per Start! (yea he averages more innings per start than Arrieta!)
Loses
Walks*
Hits* (yes you can lead in hits/walks and not have best whip, so its relevant)
Runs
Stolen Bases (7 vs 27, Arrieta gets run on almost every game!)
Hit Batters
Pickoffs

Cubsfan2011 · 10-03-2015, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhcollecting

Lets play this game

Grienke leads in:

ERA
WHIP
Avg Innings Per Start! (yea he averages more innings per start than Arrieta!)
Loses
Walks*
Hits* (yes you can lead in hits/walks and not have best whip, so its relevant)
Runs
Stolen Bases (7 vs 27, Arrieta gets run on almost every game!)
Hit Batters
Pickoffs

Avg innings per start:
Greinke - 6.958
Arrieta - 6.939

That settles it! With such a huge difference, I do not see why Greinke should not get it!!

dhcollecting · 10-03-2015, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cubsfan2011

Avg innings per start:
Greinke - 6.958
Arrieta - 6.939

That settles it! With such a huge difference, I do not see why Greinke should not get it!!

Yea but that refutes one of Arrieta major selling points, his CGs. Great you got 4 complete games but its offset by all those poor outings. Grienke on the other has been the definition of consistency for the ENTIRE season not just the 2nd half!

Big35Hurt · 10-03-2015, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhcollecting

Another great outing for the best pitcher in baseball! To bad all you have to do is have a good 2nd half and you get all the media support.

Yup...Arrieta did look great last night, and it was another great outing by him. He locked up the Cy Young award too.

Cubsfan2011 · 10-03-2015, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhcollecting

Yea but that refutes one of Arrieta major selling points, his CGs. Great you got 4 complete games but its offset by all those poor outings. Grienke on the other has been the definition of consistency for the ENTIRE season not just the 2nd half!

What do you consider a poor outing? 3 or more earned runs? If that's the case, Arrieta had 8 poor outings, Greinke had 6.
If you offset the 4 complete games to the 8 poor outings, Arrieta is net 4 poor outings. If you offset Greinke's 0 complete games to the 6 poor outings, he is net 6 poor outings.

Bars and Bar · 10-03-2015, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cubsfan2011

What do you consider a poor outing? 3 or more earned runs? If that's the case, Arrieta had 8 poor outings, Greinke had 6.
If you offset the 4 complete games to the 8 poor outings, Arrieta is net 4 poor outings. If you offset Greinke's 0 complete games to the 6 poor outings, he is net 6 poor outings.

That's a stupid argument

valleyofsun · 10-03-2015, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cubsfan2011

Avg innings per start:
Greinke - 6.958
Arrieta - 6.939

That settles it! With such a huge difference, I do not see why Greinke should not get it!!

Cubsfan2011 · 10-03-2015, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bars and Bar

That's a stupid argument

why do you say that? He stated " got 4 complete games but its offset by all those poor outings.", so I gave him the #s on how they offset.

jdandns · 10-04-2015, 12:06 AM

Jake was great, but I think Greinke will get it. He was the most consistent all season long. That's the final arbiter when all of the hard numbers are so phenomenal and similar.

It's amazing. These two guys were so good, there was another pitcher who will likely hit 300 strikeouts tomorrow, himself previous multiple award winner, and one who authored his 2nd no-hitter this year just today, and neither was as good as Arrieta or Greinke have been.

stormshadow815 · 10-04-2015, 12:16 AM

I'm so confused..... this is the craziest CY race ever. Assuming Kershaw reaches 300 K's tomorrow, its the first time a pitcher has done that in 13 years and it would only be the 34th season of someone hitting that mark. On top of that he has a 2.16 ERA. We are talking about this guy being THIRD in the voting.... Seriously, my mind is blown.

death2redemptions · 10-04-2015, 12:17 AM

After his good start today I have officially moved Greinke up to 2nd place. In order for Kershaw to retake 2nd place he can't give up more than 1 run and must reach 300 k's.

Thinking · 10-04-2015, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by death2redemptions

- Greinke almost made history with that run for the scoreless innings streak record but fell short. Arrieta actually did make history, posting the lowest ERA after the All-Star break.

- Arrieta threw a no-hitter & 3 shutouts. Greinke didn't record a single CG shutout all season

- While I don't personally care for the win/loss stat the voters do and Arrieta exceeded the 20 win landmark to lead the league with 22 wins but Greinke fell short with 18 wins

- Greinke leads in ERA by a small margin and leads WHIP by an even smaller margin but Arrieta leads in every other important pitching category by much larger margins.

4 CG vs. 1 CG (Arrieta leads the league)
3 SHO vs. 0 SHO (Arrieta leads the league)
229 IP vs. 214.2 IP (Arrieta leads the league)
236 SO vs. 192 SO
2.35 FIP vs. 2.75 FIP
7.3 fWAR vs. 5.7 fWAR (Arrieta leads the league)
22 Wins vs. 18 Wins (Arrieta leads the league)
.185 OPP avg vs. .188 OPP avg (Arrieta leads the league)

Arrieta wins this thing (and I am not a Cubs fan).

He was dominant in the 2nd half of the season, which right or wrong does get more weighting. Best 2nd half ever?

Tight race but Arrieta wins it.

ark8085 · 10-04-2015, 09:19 AM

Everybody thinks Arrieta will win, so I'm picking Kershaw to win...again. Let's go 300 strike outs!

phreak23 · 10-04-2015, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhcollecting

Yea but that refutes one of Arrieta major selling points, his CGs. Great you got 4 complete games but its offset by all those poor outings. Grienke on the other has been the definition of consistency for the ENTIRE season not just the 2nd half!

So OP What happens when a good team gets hot in the 2nd half and dominates, they make the wildcard then tear through the playoffs and win the World Series? Should they not be deserving of the championship because they were not the most "consistent" all year long

And Jake didn't have a "good" second half, he had THE BEST EVER in the history of baseball

Take off your blinders, crawl out of the cave you live in, it's a tight race with 3 deserving candidates, to say Greinke is the only one who deserves it proves you're the biggest homer fanboy on this board!

JustinVerlander07 · 10-04-2015, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big35Hurt

If strikeouts is all that matters, then sure I would agree. But let's not look at wins, ERA, winning percentage, WHIP, hits allowed, etc.

You think winning percentage matters for who's been the best pitcher?

Of the things a pitcher can control, Kershaw has been the best, his peripherals match the results (unlike Greinke), and unfortunately for Arrieta, the whole season counts, not just two months of it.

JustinVerlander07 · 10-04-2015, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thinking

??? Should we forget the 0.75 ERA, lowest ever for 2nd half of a season?

We are talking about a season here, not career.

You're right, we're talking about a season here, so I don't care what Arrieta has done in the 2nd half, I care about what he has done over the whole season.

bedot · 10-04-2015, 10:00 AM

How does Greinke not win this?

Cubsfan2011 · 10-04-2015, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

You think winning percentage matters for who's been the best pitcher?

Of the things a pitcher can control, Kershaw has been the best, his peripherals match the results (unlike Greinke), and unfortunately for Arrieta, the whole season counts, not just two months of it.

It just wasn't two months. If you look at his game log, Arrieta started doing well on 6/21 with a complete game shutout. In the 2nd half of June and all July, he was 5 - 1 with a 1.90 era, which are great numbers. August and Sept were just ridiculous though.

I haven't ever seen a Cy Young race like this. 3 pitchers having better seasons than a lot of previous winners. It's crazy.

JustinVerlander07 · 10-04-2015, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cubsfan2011

It just wasn't two months. If you look at his game log, Arrieta started doing well on 6/21 with a complete game shutout. In the 2nd half of June and all July, he was 5 - 1 with a 1.90 era, which are great numbers. August and Sept were just ridiculous though.

I haven't ever seen a Cy Young race like this. 3 pitchers having better seasons than a lot of previous winners. It's crazy.

Understood, but again, the entire season counts. Not just parts of the season.

no10pin · 10-04-2015, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

You think winning percentage matters for who's been the best pitcher?

Of the things a pitcher can control, Kershaw has been the best, his peripherals match the results (unlike Greinke), and unfortunately for Arrieta, the whole season counts, not just two months of it.

Kershaw isn't winning. This is a winning season 99 times out of 100, but not this year.

Pitchers can control their ERA, and while 2.16 is fantastic, it's a distant 3rd this year.

As far as the whole season counting, that argument doesn't help Kershaw either. His first couple of months were pretty ugly at times.

Skipscards · 10-04-2015, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bedot

How does Greinke not win this?

I agree. Can't deny the 1.66 ERA and 19-3 record. We are talking about the 8th best ERA in the live ball era...nearly 100 years.

View Poll Results: Who is the NL Cy Young???
Zack Grienke	68	41.98%
Jake Arrieta	94	58.02%
Voters: 162. You may not vote on this poll

10-03-2015, 10:05 PM	#252
dhcollecting Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: San Diego Posts: 3,497 dhsportscards	Another great outing for the best pitcher in baseball! To bad all you have to do is have a good 2nd half and you get all the media support. __________________ Collecting Tony Gwynn High End and Bat Barrel and Logoman cards

10-04-2015, 12:16 AM	#264
stormshadow815 Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,781	I'm so confused..... this is the craziest CY race ever. Assuming Kershaw reaches 300 K's tomorrow, its the first time a pitcher has done that in 13 years and it would only be the 34th season of someone hitting that mark. On top of that he has a 2.16 ERA. We are talking about this guy being THIRD in the voting.... Seriously, my mind is blown. __________________

10-03-2015, 09:18 PM	#251
death2redemptions Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Creeping in mama's cellar Posts: 59,303 ddavisaz	Looks like Greinke won't be recording a single CG Shutout this season.

10-04-2015, 12:06 AM	#263
jdandns Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Southern California Posts: 23,488	Jake was great, but I think Greinke will get it. He was the most consistent all season long. That's the final arbiter when all of the hard numbers are so phenomenal and similar. It's amazing. These two guys were so good, there was another pitcher who will likely hit 300 strikeouts tomorrow, himself previous multiple award winner, and one who authored his 2nd no-hitter this year just today, and neither was as good as Arrieta or Greinke have been.

10-04-2015, 12:17 AM	#265
death2redemptions Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Creeping in mama's cellar Posts: 59,303 ddavisaz	After his good start today I have officially moved Greinke up to 2nd place. In order for Kershaw to retake 2nd place he can't give up more than 1 run and must reach 300 k's.

10-04-2015, 09:19 AM	#267
ark8085 Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Ct Posts: 1,979 Redic211	Everybody thinks Arrieta will win, so I'm picking Kershaw to win...again. Let's go 300 strike outs!

10-04-2015, 10:00 AM	#271
bedot Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Atlanta Posts: 1,141	How does Greinke not win this?