A Card Has Not Sold Publicly in At Least a Decade, You Want It, How to Price It?

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by RiceBondsMT2Yng

He's more well known for his collection, now more than ever, than he was an active participant in the hobby landscape. More just an unassuming offline older guy, is my understanding, who quietly compiled the best Bonds collection the world has probably ever known. I had only heard about the collection secondhand, from another more-well-known-in-the-hobby-in-a-networking-sense collector, until the selloff. Until the selloff, for the better part of a decade at least, he hadn't been buying or selling much at all.

I think someone must've told him that listing at $0.99 and running a pure auction is the best way to get the highest dollar, and in a lot of cases that's good advice. But as you can see from some of his asking prices, he kind of has no idea what anything is worth. In his defense, the Bonds market is extremely volatile right now and experience some major growing pains.

He has definitely sold privately to guys in the Bonds community although I haven't personally made direct contact myself.

You would still think that he would have some grasp on what those cards are truly worth after a year of selling. And maybe the Bonds community is full of people like Bonds, but you'd think that someone would have gotten him in touch with someone like Goldin to move those cards.

None of it really explains the behavior of the OP though. I'm kind of shifting my thought to the OP owns one of those cards. Because he called it a major holy grail card. Personally, I don't think it's top 5 of the cards he has listed. But the fact that he called it that and said he wanted it back, only to turn around and say he agreed with the seller that it could be a $10k card and let it get to eBay. Pumping someone else's card to raise the value of yours.

[caster513]

The base patch cards of Bonds in this set have been selling for $100-$200...slap an /10 on it and its worth 5k to 10k, come on....

[cholodolo]

Incahoots?

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...1524334&page=2

Originally Posted by SoccerRCs

I hear ya. This makes lots of sense to me. Been talking to the guy liquidating. I was the one that bought the '98 Pinnacle 1/1 Refractor Artist Proof on Sunday. Hoping he drops more big stuff.

Originally Posted by SoccerRCs

Doing it on Ebay. He's got it all. Wouldn't be surprised if it's the greatest Bonds collection in existence. Yesterday he had 7-8 1/1 masterpiece cards close out. And this is a weekly occurrence. Every Sunday he has been posting stuff for one week auctions. Although he didn't post anything yesterday, presumably because of the holiday.

[RiceBondsMT2Yng]

Originally Posted by whitmm

You would still think that he would have some grasp on what those cards are truly worth after a year of selling. And maybe the Bonds community is full of people like Bonds, but you'd think that someone would have gotten him in touch with someone like Goldin to move those cards.

None of it really explains the behavior of the OP though. I'm kind of shifting my thought to the OP owns one of those cards. Because he called it a major holy grail card. Personally, I don't think it's top 5 of the cards he has listed. But the fact that he called it that and said he wanted it back, only to turn around and say he agreed with the seller that it could be a $10k card and let it get to eBay. Pumping someone else's card to raise the value of yours.

To be honest, I don't even have a grasp on what many of these cards are worth right now. So few of these cards have ever come to market, plus the Bonds market is a funny place. Bonds is, at best, the 4th most collected player in 90-ish era cards, behind Griffey, Thomas, and Jeter. He's generally reviled by sports fans and collectors alike. He is a virtual non-factor in the larger hobby outside 1-2 high grade rookies. As a result, I don't even think Goldin is the right place for most of his cards because his cards aren't generally recognized as valuable, whether they're actually valuable or not.

Most of his collector base is die-hard, although you're seeing an increasing amount of Instagram high end accounts flexing on their Bonds pickups, meaning there is a high end flipper undercurrent right now. You have basketball guys who look at baseball and see an all time great cost less than a second tier basketball star. You also have an organic increase in folks who have been fans of Bonds but just hadn't taken the time to collect him until now since everyone enters or reenters the hobby at a different pace. Then you have a turbo boost of interest and money from those people who only like things if they cost a lot, the more the better.

It's hard to know who all is even going after the highest end Bonds cards. I've got a few decent ones and I don't even know how to buy a card on Goldin. Goldin just isn't the right place to maximize value at this time...someday, the Goldin-type forums will be the right place, but that's a long way off.

In terms of the OP, I don't know what motivates people to do what they do. I personally like reading content about my favorite player. I also try and keep my hobby decisions closer to the vest but I don't think there's anything wrong with being open about your process. Just a different style. There may be something to gain in trying to raise the profile of a certain player's cards, but until Bonds gains acceptance in the general card world, there is a very tiny, buying audience who could be swayed by anything anyone posts here or elsewhere.

I'm not expert on the situation, but I don't see any chance that a card sold by that eBay seller would be owned by anyone else. That wouldn't make sense to me from what I know.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by RiceBondsMT2Yng

I'm not expert on the situation, but I don't see any chance that a card sold by that eBay seller would be owned by anyone else. That wouldn't make sense to me from what I know.

None of those cards are 1/1, that I can tell. I'd say the chances are high someone else owns those cards

[Zauron]

Originally Posted by whitmm

I'm not sure what the goal was. He claimed he was trying to figure out a value, but then he said the seller may be right with a $5,000 value, but I don't think he wanted to pay that much. Then, when everyone started given him much lower values, he said everyone was crazy.

Everything about this screams that the OP is the seller or the OP and seller are buddies and he was just trying to pump up the card before it got listed. Either way, I don't believe the OP ever had intentions of buying the card.

I think this is accurate. I laughed at the thought of this being worth $5k to people.

[whitmm]

Auction ended, no bids

He relisted, 7 day auction again. But he isn't offering free shipping, so I'm out

[SupermanBrandon]

Guess he didn’t take OPs offer either?


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[Zauron]

A month of zero activity on this card. Yup, sure is worth thousands

[caster513]

Originally Posted by Zauron

A month of zero activity on this card. Yup, sure is worth thousands

Crickets from OP... pump it up, C'mon man!

[cholodolo]

Originally Posted by caster513

Crickets from OP... pump it up, C'mon man!

He's too busy dealing with Soccer cards...

[mikejones]

Supermanbrandon got the hammer. I wonder what for?

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by mikejones

Supermanbrandon got the hammer. I wonder what for?

Mookie Fans

[caster513]

Originally Posted by cholodolo

He's too busy dealing with Soccer cards...

Yea he should probably stick with that. Wish I had one of these Bonds cards. I would gladly take the 5k he was thinking...

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by JoshMN

Guy who collects scumbag player might also be engaged in scumbag behavior himself. That pretty much sums it up.

Can you explain why Bonds was a scumbag? Is it because in his mid-30s he decided to use roids after years of watching his peers do the same thing? Is it because he was a self-centered jerk at times like many other star athletes?

It's hard to understand why a guy with no criminal record and someone who entertained millions on a daily basis was a scumbag. Maybe it's because he was villianized and aggressively pursued by the media and federal authorities?

[OhioLawyerF5]

90s player collectors just laugh at some of the people in this thread who just don't understand how it works. I struggle with it daily. Some of these rare cards pop up so infrequently that you sometimes have to pay far more than the card would be otherwise worth just because if you don't, you may not get another chance. In card collecting, there are very few eras where this is true. Vintage is not rare. With modern low-numbered cards, they aren't in the same boat because of just how many parallels there are. The 90s (and early 00s) were a whole different animal. When a card only had one or maybe 2 parallels, and they are numbered to 150. They are hard to find. When they are numbered to 10, good luck. You might see it for sale once or twice in your life. When it's available, you basically have to pay what the asking price is if you want the card. It's less about some impossible to determine market price, and more about how badly do you want the card.

Joey Peapod (a board member here) has some very good videos on his youtube channel where they discuss this concept in detail. I suggest people go check it out if you have any interest in learning about 90s cards.

[Archangel1775]

This card is a different beast though. At what point is a reprint worth more than the original PSA 10 Limited Version(Tiffany) of the same card? It's just a strange situation. Maybe a 1/1 Superfractor AUTO reprint comes close? Now throw me the Crusade or Select Certified Mirror Gold, I can see that.

[theshowandme]

I thought about reading 242 posts to catch up on what is going on but then I saw our good friend the lawyer say vintage is not rare.

Sure, 1933 Goudey, 1952 Topps, and every major release since then isn’t rare, but I could fire off some very rare cards of inner circle name players that make 1990s inserts look like Topps Big League Geoff Wilson cards

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

I thought about reading 242 posts to catch up on what is going on but then I saw our good friend the lawyer say vintage is not rare.

Sure, 1933 Goudey, 1952 Topps, and every major release since then isn’t rare, but I could fire off some very rare cards of inner circle name players that make 1990s inserts look like Topps Big League Geoff Wilson cards

Exceptions don't make the rule. And we are talking about major releases here. Not oddball cards either. Generally speaking, vintage is not rare. I shouldn't have to put a disclaimer that exceptions apply so that pedants don't get their panties in a bunch.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

This card is a different beast though. At what point is a reprint worth more than the original PSA 10 Limited Version(Tiffany) of the same card? It's just a strange situation. Maybe a 1/1 Superfractor AUTO reprint comes close? Now throw me the Crusade or Select Certified Mirror Gold, I can see that.

Classifying this set as just some "reprint set" is disingenuous.

[theshowandme]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Exceptions don't make the rule. And we are talking about major releases here. Not oddball cards either. Generally speaking, vintage is not rare. I shouldn't have to put a disclaimer that exceptions apply so that pedants don't get their panties in a bunch.

All good friend

I think if there are more than 25 of anything then the rare word should be thrown out the window, regardless of era or release

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

All good friend

I think if there are more than 25 of anything then the rare word should be thrown out the window, regardless of era or release

Yeah, sometimes we use the term rare when we really mean scarce. Regardless, the card in this thread is both rare and scarce. When cards pop up for public sale with literal years in between sales, they are scarce enough that the price is directly related to how bad an individual collector wants it.

[Zauron]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

90s player collectors just laugh at some of the people in this thread who just don't understand how it works. I struggle with it daily. Some of these rare cards pop up so infrequently that you sometimes have to pay far more than the card would be otherwise worth just because if you don't, you may not get another chance. In card collecting, there are very few eras where this is true. Vintage is not rare. With modern low-numbered cards, they aren't in the same boat because of just how many parallels there are. The 90s (and early 00s) were a whole different animal. When a card only had one or maybe 2 parallels, and they are numbered to 150. They are hard to find. When they are numbered to 10, good luck. You might see it for sale once or twice in your life. When it's available, you basically have to pay what the asking price is if you want the card. It's less about some impossible to determine market price, and more about how badly do you want the card.

Joey Peapod (a board member here) has some very good videos on his youtube channel where they discuss this concept in detail. I suggest people go check it out if you have any interest in learning about 90s cards.

There is some truth to this, but at the same time it doesn't mean a card suddenly is worth an exponential amount. Case in point, this Bonds card. Yes, it's worth a decent amount. However, IMO it's nowhere near worth the $5k+ it was talked about.

90's and early 2000's parallels though are a hidden gold mine because of the rarity. A card numbered to 100 in 2000 is worth more than a card numbered to 25 today.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Zauron

There is some truth to this, but at the same time it doesn't mean a card suddenly is worth an exponential amount. Case in point, this Bonds card. Yes, it's worth a decent amount. However, IMO it's nowhere near worth the $5k+ it was talked about.

90's and early 2000's parallels though are a hidden gold mine because of the rarity. A card numbered to 100 in 2000 is worth more than a card numbered to 25 today.

It's possible no Bonds collector that doesn't already have that card is willing to pay upwards of $5k. I have no idea. It only takes one. I know from my experience as a Larkin collector. I've paid close to that for a card that has more copies than 10. Just because they never pop up. And the Bonds market has really exploded in recent years. It dwarfs what the same card of Larkin will bring. So with really scarce cards you just never know. It could sit for years at that price. Or some Bonds collector might hit the BIN. I've had it happen before to cards I watch. There are a few really high end Larkin cards just sitting out there with absurd BINs. I feel they are more than I want to pay so I don't pull the trigger. But I've had instances where that BIN just randomly gets hit one day and the card is gone, likely not to surface again for years. It's not a fun feeling knowing had I just sucked it up and spent the extra $500 or so I could have checked it off my list. Now I might never get to. It's that issue with truly scarce cards that drives the market. Not sales history.

[Galileo77]

Originally Posted by SupermanBrandon

Seller wants $5k. If someone else buys it from him tonight for $5k...are you going to wake up tomorrow pissed off? Find the number that doesn't make you upset (if you miss out on it) the next morning...and offer that.

For me cards are a luxury -not a necessity - it should never impact things like my mortgage, bills etc I have heard Bobby Witt Jr. collects. I would imagine that 5k is very different for him than it is for me.