NBA Top Shot - High Risk, High Reward?

[rysportguy]

I'll throw out a little nugget. Maxi Kleber series 1 dunk is the first moment ever created, on the blockchain it is ID 1. Also doesn't hurt that Doncic is in the highlight. I think that one could end up with a cult like following since it represents the very beginning of the blockchain that is holding all of these moments. It has gone up pretty fast but for series 1 it's still obtainable (under $200)

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

If Panini just had packs to buy they would have made a fortune. People like to open things.

Panini didn’t lose out. They made millions on single card “blockchain” auctions.

But Panini is poorly run and lacks any innovation and foresight. They can’t imagine doing anything but printing cards, so the idea of creating another type of collectible is not something they could envision.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

Panini didn’t lose out. They made millions on single card “blockchain” auctions.

But Panini is poorly run and lacks any innovation and foresight. They can’t imagine doing anything but printing cards, so the idea of creating another type of collectible is not something they could envision.

If TS catches on longterm Panini is going to lose out big time.

Panini has had digital cards for years. They have the Panini Dunk app where you can buy and sell. They’ve tried and failed miserably to get that off the ground.

The longer TS succeeds, the more money they are pulling from Panini’s pockets as more and more Kard Kidz flock to TS. If all the people who entered the hobby over the past year solely to make money flipping realize that they can make so much more money so much faster (and at this juncture you can make A LOT more) they won’t stick around flipping kards.

We’ve said on this board for years that as soon as the next flip thing came along the flip bois would leave as quickly as they came and move onto the next thing. TS and NFT seem to be the new thing and have the potential to be the market disruptor people in the hobby have been waiting on.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

If TS catches on longterm Panini is going to lose out big time.

Panini has had digital cards for years. They have the Panini Dunk app where you can buy and sell. They’ve tried and failed miserably to get that off the ground.

The longer TS succeeds, the more money they are pulling from Panini’s pockets as more and more Kard Kidz flock to TS. If all the people who entered the hobby over the past year solely to make money flipping realize that they can make so much more money so much faster (and at this juncture you can make A LOT more) they won’t stick around flipping kards.

We’ve said on this board for years that as soon as the next flip thing came along the flip bois would leave as quickly as they came and move onto the next thing. TS and NFT seem to be the new thing and have the potential to be the market disruptor people in the hobby have been waiting on.

Are you saying all the big money they entered the real card hobby may leave when they can make more money elsewhere? That might cause a loud popping sound...

That’s blasphemy ‘round these parts.

I was commenting specifically that Panini didn’t lose on their blockchain venture. What they are losing on is there inability to innovate anything. I mean they can’t even create unique new products of their basic product line.

If this takes off Panini could be in a world of pain in 2-3 years. Even if they try and recreate something similar they don’t have the vision to execute it.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

Are you saying all the big money they entered the real card hobby may leave when they can make more money elsewhere? That might cause a loud popping sound...

That’s blasphemy ‘round these parts.

I was commenting specifically that Panini didn’t lose on their blockchain venture. What they are losing on is there inability to innovate anything. I mean they can’t even create unique new products of their basic product line.

If this takes off Panini could be in a world of pain in 2-3 years. Even if they try and recreate something similar they don’t have the vision to execute it.

I guess we’re just framing the Panini blockchain loss differently.

They won short term for sure, but long term the lack of vision and innovation on the blockchain market as a whole looks like it has a real possibility of being a really big loss for them.

Dapper doesn’t sell anything that Panini couldn’t have, but like you said Panini lacks vision.

As it sits now, Dapper is passing around money that would make any AH and eBay cream themselves. Dapper is destroying the market and if they siphon off part of the customer base (and they should) then it’s game over. It’s super fun to watch.

[Vinny1984]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

If TS catches on longterm Panini is going to lose out big time.

Panini has had digital cards for years. They have the Panini Dunk app where you can buy and sell. They’ve tried and failed miserably to get that off the ground.

The longer TS succeeds, the more money they are pulling from Panini’s pockets as more and more Kard Kidz flock to TS. If all the people who entered the hobby over the past year solely to make money flipping realize that they can make so much more money so much faster (and at this juncture you can make A LOT more) they won’t stick around flipping kards.

We’ve said on this board for years that as soon as the next flip thing came along the flip bois would leave as quickly as they came and move onto the next thing. TS and NFT seem to be the new thing and have the potential to be the market disruptor people in the hobby have been waiting on.

Solely from just reading the discord, all this money is coming from stonks and crypto. There doesn’t seem to be too many that are blending physical and digital. It’s very difficult to get physical collectors on board (just read this thread). Will money come over from physical? Absolutely. But I don’t think it’ll be as much as what some think. Both hobbies will still be booming imo.

[cjmccreary]

Originally Posted by Vinny1984

Solely from just reading the discord, all this money is coming from stonks and crypto. There doesn’t seem to be too many that are blending physical and digital. It’s very difficult to get physical collectors on board (just read this thread). Will money come over from physical? Absolutely. But I don’t think it’ll be as much as what some think. Both hobbies will still be booming imo.

Agree. TS is another asset class for the total portfolio for those who wish to engage with it.


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[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

I guess we’re just framing the Panini blockchain loss differently.

They won short term for sure, but long term the lack of vision and innovation on the blockchain market as a whole looks like it has a real possibility of being a really big loss for them.

Dapper doesn’t sell anything that Panini couldn’t have, but like you said Panini lacks vision.

As it sits now, Dapper is passing around money that would make any AH and eBay cream themselves. Dapper is destroying the market and if they siphon off part of the customer base (and they should) then it’s game over. It’s super fun to watch.

I don’t really disagree with your argument, I just don’t consider Panini losing out on something they are incapable of creating.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by Vinny1984

Solely from just reading the discord, all this money is coming from stonks and crypto. There doesn’t seem to be too many that are blending physical and digital. It’s very difficult to get physical collectors on board (just read this thread). Will money come over from physical? Absolutely. But I don’t think it’ll be as much as what some think. Both hobbies will still be booming imo.

Yeah I’ve read that as well. Guys like me don’t want gifs and I get that. I also get the fun in TS because I love data and I’m having a blast watching it.

What percentage of physical card holders do you think want the cards for a collection vs. are using the cards as a means to flip? I’m a big believer that the guys STRICTLY who flip (not me, though I do flip) outnumber the guys who actually want cards for collecting purposes by a wide margin.

So you won’t pull me away to gifs, but if you can pull the guys solely in the hobby for money...

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

Yeah I’ve read that as well. Guys like me don’t want gifs and I get that. I also get the fun in TS because I love data and I’m having a blast watching it.

What percentage of physical card holders do you think want the cards for a collection vs. are using the cards as a means to flip? I’m a big believer that the guys STRICTLY who flip (not me, though I do flip) outnumber the guys who actually want cards for collecting purposes by a wide margin.

So you won’t pull me away to gifs, but if you can pull the guys solely in the hobby for money...

If you're talking the last 2 years I agree but historically and looking forward I doubt it. Eventually all these bass flippers are going to realize 1) they're actually losing money after they get a fat tax bill and don't have the liquid assets to pay it or 2) they move onto whatever the next newest, hottest, coolest, MLM scheme is.

[jcardstore]

Just by reading the tax stuff being asked and misinformation being spread across facebook these new guys are woefully underprepared for what's coming their way.

[benz35]

so i saw josh hart sold a moments in topshot (which was gifted to him). then cj mccollum asked about it

remembered i put a zion s2 dunk for sale at 300.. wanted to cancel it

just checked now and it was sold.. smh

[Vinny1984]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

Yeah I’ve read that as well. Guys like me don’t want gifs and I get that. I also get the fun in TS because I love data and I’m having a blast watching it.

What percentage of physical card holders do you think want the cards for a collection vs. are using the cards as a means to flip? I’m a big believer that the guys STRICTLY who flip (not me, though I do flip) outnumber the guys who actually want cards for collecting purposes by a wide margin.

So you won’t pull me away to gifs, but if you can pull the guys solely in the hobby for money...

True but now we need to dive into different categories of flipping. Short term flipping will never die but it is decreasing while we are seeing an increase in mid-long term flipping. Grading is an example of mid-term flipping. Hoarding wax is an example of long term flipping. The money is staying in the hobby but more and more of it is held in inventory. Short-term flippers will 100% gravitate toward Topshot but that pool isn’t going to be a major disruption in physical.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by Vinny1984

True but now we need to dive into different categories of flipping. Short term flipping will never die but it is decreasing while we are seeing an increase in mid-long term flipping. Grading is an example of mid-term flipping. Hoarding wax is an example of long term flipping. The money is staying in the hobby but more and more of it is held in inventory. Short-term flippers will 100% gravitate toward Topshot but that pool isn’t going to be a major disruption in physical.

The different sub categories make sense and I get where you’re coming from. It seems like what I see from most people is get it and move it as fast as possible, but you’re right I may just be seeing a small segment.

I’d say I’m like 70/30 on NBATS being a market disruptor.

It’s just crazy because until this weekend I couldn’t see the forces to disrupt The Hobby and didn’t know what it would look like, but now it seems pretty clear to me.

[Vinny1984]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

The different sub categories make sense and I get where you’re coming from. It seems like what I see from most people is get it and move it as fast as possible, but you’re right I may just be seeing a small segment.

I’d say I’m like 70/30 on NBATS being a market disruptor.

It’s just crazy because until this weekend I couldn’t see the forces to disrupt The Hobby and didn’t know what it would look like, but now it seems pretty clear to me.

Yeah I hear ya. The facts are that nobody knows for sure. What we do know is there is a plethora of 21 year old multi-millionaires from GME and crypto that need to spend their money somewhere. What a world.

[grade]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

If you're talking the last 2 years I agree but historically and looking forward I doubt it. Eventually all these bass flippers are going to realize 1) they're actually losing money after they get a fat tax bill and don't have the liquid assets to pay it or 2) they move onto whatever the next newest, hottest, coolest, MLM scheme is.

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Just by reading the tax stuff being asked and misinformation being spread across facebook these new guys are woefully underprepared for what's coming their way.

Yup, all the guys with cards at PSA have zero liquidity , people with cards at PSA,BGS,etc cannot put cards for sale period. Zero liquidity. I agree, i have 1000's of cards stuck in the grading black hole.

Yup, Taxes will be hell for 2020 and all my sales of cardboard.

No matter how you make money, selling Cards, moments , crypto or dog food. Taxes are taxes if you make money.

$100,000's of cards with ZERO liquidity for 6-11+ months . Cardboard people understand. I thought the withdraw process at TS was "fast" compared to PSA and BGS.

FOMO is real

[sandlotsportcards]

Originally Posted by rysportguy

I'll throw out a little nugget. Maxi Kleber series 1 dunk is the first moment ever created, on the blockchain it is ID 1. Also doesn't hurt that Doncic is in the highlight. I think that one could end up with a cult like following since it represents the very beginning of the blockchain that is holding all of these moments. It has gone up pretty fast but for series 1 it's still obtainable (under $200)

I spent too much money on there this morning but I did take a chance and picked this one up.

[shaner1]

How do you find recent sales of Moments?

[val47]

Why is Tatum, Butler and Murray so cheap and trending down?

[Wildcat55]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

If TS catches on longterm Panini is going to lose out big time.

Panini has had digital cards for years. They have the Panini Dunk app where you can buy and sell. They’ve tried and failed miserably to get that off the ground.

The longer TS succeeds, the more money they are pulling from Panini’s pockets as more and more Kard Kidz flock to TS. If all the people who entered the hobby over the past year solely to make money flipping realize that they can make so much more money so much faster (and at this juncture you can make A LOT more) they won’t stick around flipping kards.

We’ve said on this board for years that as soon as the next flip thing came along the flip bois would leave as quickly as they came and move onto the next thing. TS and NFT seem to be the new thing and have the potential to be the market disruptor people in the hobby have been waiting on.

Good riddance...flippers are always looking to flip the latest thing and Panini /Topps have nothing to be worried about. They will adapt just fine and will simply copy this type of idea, create something similar that incorporates digital and physical (think dual redemptions), or buy a company like Dapper and fold it in. They are just waiting to see if the market is large enough and sustainable before making a big entrance.

And Panini has enough on its plate right now. You don’t have to always be first market with a new idea. You can be second or third if you improve upon all of the shortcomings of the originator. Think MySpace vs. FaceBook, AOL/Yahoo vs. Google, Blackberry vs. Apple/Samsung and on and on...

[cjmccreary]

Fake, I think

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[grade]

Originally Posted by cjmccreary

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BUY BUY BUY,, Lebron will buy all his own cards so it is 10x more than the next player.

Fake news?

[daeve]

[rifleman69]

Originally Posted by rysportguy

You don't understand what I mean by owning it.

You don't understand the word "owning".

[KD35Russ0]

Originally Posted by Wildcat55

Good riddance...flippers are always looking to flip the latest thing and Panini /Topps have nothing to be worried about. They will adapt just fine and will simply copy this type of idea, create something similar that incorporates digital and physical (think dual redemptions), or buy a company like Dapper and fold it in. They are just waiting to see if the market is large enough and sustainable before making a big entrance.

And Panini has enough on its plate right now. You don’t have to always be first market with a new idea. You can be second or third if you improve upon all of the shortcomings of the originator. Think MySpace vs. FaceBook, AOL/Yahoo vs. Google, Blackberry vs. Apple/Samsung and on and on...

I mostly agree. I think the big BUT is what do the licenses in the space mean. It sounds like dapper already owns them, although maybe not exclusively?


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