The Official NBA Regular Season Thread—-21/22 Edition

[bigjbasketball]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Your making a point I am not arguing against. Amazing team success, good for Curry. But poor performance based on his history. Worst yet from a shooting POV.

BTW, it doesn't "go beyond stats". I think what you mean to say is "I don't like the stats, so let's look elsewhere".

“Poor performance” based on what standards? 41% from 3, especially based on the difficulty of the shots he takes, is otherworldly. Curry isn’t battling his previous seasons for an MVP, you can only judge him vs what all other players are doing this season. The Warriors are tied for the best record in the league, he’s by far the best player on the team, and his stats compared to all other players right now are definitely MVP-worthy.

[tennelson55]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Your making a point I am not arguing against. Amazing team success, good for Curry. But poor performance based on his history. Worst yet from a shooting POV.

BTW, it doesn't "go beyond stats". I think what you mean to say is "I don't like the stats, so let's look elsewhere".

Want Wiggins stats since he has joined the dubs?

Oh yea; shooting percentages higher. I guess the guy just randomly decided to start shooting better OR he's getting better looks because teams focus on Curry. They sag towards the better shooter, double team the better shooter and help off the better shooter.



You can even see the impact by season. Curry out when Wiggins plays his first season with the dubs and then season 2/3 he's shooting from 44 to 48% FG and 33 to 37.5% from three.

Crazy how stats show themselves.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

You keep rhetorically asking me what my point is knowing what my point is. If you don't want to accept it, that's cool, but it's silly to pretend like you're confused.

Again, if GSW was 10-10, the decline of Curry would be discussed. Decline from extremely high highs, but decline nevertheless. If you want to argue that he's actually having an awesome season, have at it. Every once in a while, he'll have a 45 point game and lead the highlight reels but in totality, the ball is not going through the hoop like it has in the past.

But like you said, that doesn't matter.

He's contributing significantly in other ways that make his season equally or more valuable than any other in his career with the exception of the unanimous MVP season.

Curry has been absolutely awesome this season and having a slightly worse raw shooting % certainly doesn't take away as much as you're trying to make it seem

[tennelson55]

Two years ago Wiggins was washed up and considered nothing... He was an afterthought in the NBA in Minneosta with him and KAT finishing seasons below .500 multiple seasons. Wiggins was anemic with KAT and now with the dubs I wouldn't be surprised to see his name brought up in the all star discussion after all is said and done or maybe the MIP.

The days of Wiggins being a black hole in Minnesota are over. The Warriors Wiggins is here for better or worse and I like the transformation.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by bulljh

21-22 Curry isn’t the front runner because he isn’t better than Curry of the past. To think, I always thought that an MVP candidate had to compete against other players of the year, not themselves.

Again, the player who won MVP last year is even better this year. To argue the idea that worse Curry from last year is MVP over better Jokic from last year is illogical. The only thing (literally) propping that idea up is team performance.

Not Curry performance.

[bigjbasketball]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Again, the player who won MVP last year is even better this year. To argue the idea that worse Curry from last year is MVP over better Jokic from last year is illogical. The only thing (literally) propping that idea up is team performance.

Not Curry performance.

Wow, it’s almost like team performance is a big part of every MVP vote ever. Go figure.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by tennelson55

Want Wiggins stats since he has joined the dubs?

Oh yea; shooting percentages higher. I guess the guy just randomly decided to start shooting better OR he's getting better looks because teams focus on Curry. They sag towards the better shooter, double team the better shooter and help off the better shooter.



You can even see the impact by season. Curry out when Wiggins plays his first season with the dubs and then season 2/3 he's shooting from 44 to 48% FG and 33 to 37.5% from three.

Crazy how stats show themselves.

So the argument is that Curry is the MVP not because of his performance, but because of the performance of his teammates? Your saying the gravity Curry draws allows those around him to be better, right?

Another argument that Steph's performance is not what is important. I agree.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by bigjbasketball

Wow, it’s almost like team performance is a big part of every MVP vote ever. Go figure.

Is anyone saying anything different?

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

He's contributing significantly in other ways that make his season equally or more valuable than any other in his career with the exception of the unanimous MVP season.

Curry has been absolutely awesome this season and having a slightly worse raw shooting % certainly doesn't take away as much as you're trying to make it seem

Ahh, the argument for the "intangibles". It's unfortunate the intangibles don't show up on the stat sheet but I'm sure he buys his squad Chipotle before games like a real MVP would.

[Zedlaw]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Again, the player who won MVP last year is even better this year. To argue the idea that worse Curry from last year is MVP over better Jokic from last year is illogical. The only thing (literally) propping that idea up is team performance.

Not Curry performance.

Why don't you think team performances matter?

Did anyone watch last night and see a playoff game. Every team in the league is circling GSW on the calendar. Curry is going up against playoff defenses every night and winning, teams go into the Denver altitude and coast for 3 quarters hoping things are close heading into the last 6 minutes.

To ignore the context of a team sport seems irresponsible.

[dunkindutchmen]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

I agree. I'm suggesting that Curry's MVP status is drawn from the Warriors, not from himself.

And that's not an MVP.

Did you just start following the NBA this season? The NBA MVP, at least in the modern era, is always awarded to the best player on the best team. If there isn't a standout player on the best team, it goes to the best player on a good team. Generally speaking.

[dunkindutchmen]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

This is more than a lame argument. What's the general theme this season in the NBA? League-wide fg %, fta, 3-point %, and offensive rating all down.

In a more physical, less efficient league, you are picking out 1 star and saying his numbers aren't as great......

I mean, please.

[rman112]

Originally Posted by Zedlaw

Why don't you think team performances matter?

Did anyone watch last night and see a playoff game. Every team in the league is circling GSW on the calendar. Curry is going up against playoff defenses every night and winning, teams go into the Denver altitude and coast for 3 quarters hoping things are close heading into the last 6 minutes.

To ignore the context of a team sport seems irresponsible.

The whole "circling X team on the calendar" is so much more a fan thing than it is a player thing.

[rman112]

You guys are arguing with him without realizing you're saying the same thing he is.. Lol.

[bulljh]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Again, the player who won MVP last year is even better this year. To argue the idea that worse Curry from last year is MVP over better Jokic from last year is illogical. The only thing (literally) propping that idea up is team performance.

Not Curry performance.

So not only does 21-22 Curry needs to compete for MVP “THIS YEAR” against his past numbers, but he also needs to compete against last year‘s Jokic. Got it.


Talk about illogical.

[Zedlaw]

Originally Posted by rman112

The whole "circling X team on the calendar" is so much more a fan thing than it is a player thing.

I take it you didn't watch the game last night

[rman112]

Originally Posted by Zedlaw

I take it you didn't watch the game last night

The same thing gets said in all sports about all good teams. I saw the same thing said about the Buccaneers the other day. Do coaches and players prepare extra to face the good teams?

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Ahh, the argument for the "intangibles". It's unfortunate the intangibles don't show up on the stat sheet but I'm sure he buys his squad Chipotle before games like a real MVP would.

So even though you've ignored the stats I've shared 3 times now I'll share them again and will await a direct response without all the pointless fluff and deflecting you've been doing.

RAPTOR / BPM / On/Off per100 differential are all the 2nd best of his entire career and nearly on the level of his MVP season. - despite having the worst roster he's played with since the splash bros

So what was that about not showing up on the stat sheet again?

[yiguiri2002]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Again, the player who won MVP last year is even better this year. To argue the idea that worse Curry from last year is MVP over better Jokic from last year is illogical. The only thing (literally) propping that idea up is team performance.

Not Curry performance.

I would include minutes too. Steph has currently played 200 more minutes than Joker.

[Zedlaw]

Originally Posted by rman112

The same thing gets said in all sports about all good teams. I saw the same thing said about the Buccaneers the other day. Do coaches and players prepare extra to face the good teams?

What is happening. Baseball guys arguing about the importance of WAR over team wins and now Football. Football teams play 16 now 17 games where the outcome of one or two wins can put you either first or last in a division. Football with it's structured practice and game schedule where you're given time to prepare to every next opponent. Yes, there's some overlap but at a much different scale in the NBA

[rman112]

Originally Posted by Zedlaw

What is happening. Baseball guys arguing about the importance of WAR over team wins and now Football. Football teams play 16 now 17 games where the outcome of one or two wins can put you either first or last in a division. Football with it's structured practice and game schedule where you're given time to prepare to every next opponent. Yes, there's some overlap but at a much different scale in the NBA

Yet in the NFL, "load management" doesn't look like it's going to be a thing.

What you're saying, to me, is that there's consciously less effort in playing/practicing/preparing for every team besides the Warriors (or whoever the flavor of the month or year team is).

Were the Suns putting in less effort day in and day out in the games, practices, and film sessions for the Warriors, vs. any other time during the win streak (or even the entire season, for that matter) ?

[daeve]

Originally Posted by bulljh

So not only does 21-22 Curry needs to compete for MVP “THIS YEAR” against his past numbers, but he also needs to compete against last year‘s Jokic. Got it.


Talk about illogical.

No he's saying he needs to compete against this year's Jokic, who is much better than last year's MVP-winning Jokic. I think it'll come down to how dominant GS looks all year, and how much ground Denver can make up once Murray is back. So the argument could then be, well is it a #2 seed Curry, or is it #4 seed Jokic, and then how much better are Jokic' numbers?

I don't see much else competition.

[indyguy]

Originally Posted by daeve

No he's saying he needs to compete against this year's Jokic, who is much better than last year's MVP-winning Jokic. I think it'll come down to how dominant GS looks all year, and how much ground Denver can make up once Murray is back. So the argument could then be, well is it a #2 seed Curry, or is it #4 seed Jokic, and then how much better are Jokic' numbers?

I don't see much else competition.

So it isn't Curry vs Jokic. It is Curry vs Jokic and Murray at that point.

And what is "much better"? He has more rebounds and shooting higher pct. His assists are down and scoring is not better than last season.

What are we saying is much better this year?

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by rman112

You guys are arguing with him without realizing you're saying the same thing he is.. Lol.

They all want me to recognize that Curry is having a great season. This is the impasse.

But he's not. GSW is doing amazing things, Curry is certainly a part of that and the face of that but individually, he's having a poor season by Curry standards. And his MVP candidacy is a product of his team, not himself.

I'm not trying to troll, but pointing out that the reason he's atop the MVP discussion leaderboard right now is not because he's lighting the world on fire. It's because his team is. And if Golden State falls back to the pack a bit, Curry's MVP chatter goes kaput.

On the contrary, Denver could go 42-40 or 52-30 and argument for Jokic remains the same. Curry does not have that luxury.

[bigjbasketball]

Originally Posted by indyguy

So it isn't Curry vs Jokic. It is Curry vs Jokic and Murray at that point.

And what is "much better"? He has more rebounds and shooting higher pct. His assists are down and scoring is not better than last season.

What are we saying is much better this year?

He’s been a monster on the defensive end, so there’s been a big improvement there as well. The Nuggets would have to be at least a 4 seed though for Jokic to be considered IMO. KD should still be in the conversation as well, although I do agree he’s just a step behind Curry and Jokic right now.