Target Online Sales Thread

[ATeamHasNoName]

Originally Posted by Doc Awesome

We need a Bbases31 vs CharmCity debate ASAP.

But take it elsewhere (different thread)


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[cspaced25]

Originally Posted by Charmcity81

I’m going to explain it the other way.

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Please don't.

[BBases31]

Originally Posted by Doc Awesome

We need a Bbases31 vs CharmCity debate ASAP.

What's there to debate? All he's doing is explaining how they do it and how easily it could be stopped.

Originally Posted by AstrosFan17

It ABSOLUTELY IS if the reason you're not able to is because others are cheating the system. This is something my parents taught me from the time I could understand language and I'm afraid for society if adults out in the world don't see that.

I asked this question to one of the other people and didn't get answer: Where is the line drawn on what's an acceptable site or store rule to not follow? Every single line of Terms of Service must be followed to the T or you're being unethical? I have no idea what's in there but considering most are the length of a book I'd imagine there's some silly rules in there that no one would consider unethical if broken

[jduds]

Originally Posted by BBases31

What's there to debate? All he's doing is explaining how they do it and how easily it could be stopped.



I asked this question to one of the other people and didn't get answer: Where is the line drawn on what's an acceptable site or store rule to not follow? Every single line of Terms of Service must be followed to the T or you're being unethical? I have no idea what's in there but considering most are the length of a book I'd imagine there's some silly rules in there that no one would consider unethical if broken

Bot users are not ignorant of the fact that they are violating the rules as set forth in the TOS. The length of the TOS or the fact that no one reads them is irrelevant for well publicized known rules. I don’t have much issue with the concept of bots, but I have major issues with the spamming of bots to buy out stock in seconds. The only salve for their consciences should be the fact that at least they aren’t acting illegally (yet). As it is, they wantonly break (not skirt or bend) the rules and adapt when rules are changed to target them. I could even get behind that if they were fixing some market inefficiency or producing some good for the hobby, but they don’t.


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[BBases31]

Originally Posted by jduds

I could even get behind that if they were fixing some market inefficiency

Is it not fixing an inefficiency to buy a stack of under market product and quickly turnaround to offer all that product back to the public at market price?

But same question to you, where's the line on store rules that aren't ok to break?

[AstrosFan17]

Originally Posted by BBases31

What's there to debate? All he's doing is explaining how they do it and how easily it could be stopped.



I asked this question to one of the other people and didn't get answer: Where is the line drawn on what's an acceptable site or store rule to not follow? Every single line of Terms of Service must be followed to the T or you're being unethical? I have no idea what's in there but considering most are the length of a book I'd imagine there's some silly rules in there that no one would consider unethical if broken

That's an easy question to answer. It is unethical to break a rule if it gives you an unfair advantage over another person. Easy as that.

[AstrosFan17]

Originally Posted by BBases31

Is it not fixing an inefficiency to buy a stack of under market product and quickly turnaround to offer all that product back to the public at market price?

But same question to you, where's the line on store rules that aren't ok to break?

no... that's the definition of profiteering, which IS illegal in some segments of the market. They are SETTING the market by buying up everything and only selling it for the higher price.

[txrngr34]

Originally Posted by AstrosFan17

That's an easy question to answer. It is unethical to break a rule if it gives you an unfair advantage over another person. Easy as that.

I'm not a bot user...hell, I can barely get my router to function properly.

But I think I get his point.

Who determines what is considered unfair? Is it unfair just because most people don't know how to build a bot or have means to buy one?

Personally, I hate that I can't find Mega boxes at retail because it's one of my favorites. But I also simply refuse to pay 3-5x retail to acquire them aftermarket.

What's the root of the problem? Is it that we can't buy direct from Target, or is that if we want it we have to pay ridiculous prices?

I'd venture to say it's the latter. I would pay +25% markup on something aftermarket if I like it - like Mega boxes. Sell me one for $38 and I'll buy it - I'll buy at least 6. And I don't care if it's from Target, where I tend to shop regularly already, or SneakerJoeONeBay.

So the real problem, as I see it, is price gouging - which I know has been mentioned. Price gouging is unethical by virtually all general sales standards and illegal in many cases when it comes to necessities - which, baseball cards are obviously not.

I don't care that you found a competitive advantage to acquire. I care that you're exploiting that advantage in an unfair manner (price gouging).

And for the bot users/defenders: the reason your pricing is unfair is because by using a competitive advantage, you have now virtually cornered the market - aka monopolizing - so you're artificially dictating market value. The market itself is no longer dictating prices.

This is why I simply don't buy at ridiculous markups. But as long as there are deep pockets out there, this will continue.

[mnvikingstwins]

Originally Posted by AstrosFan17

See, this is where you and I differ GREATLY. I think it is incredibly unethical and, as somebody who actually COULD write a bot if I chose to do so, I can tell you that I would never write or use a BOT.

That's just a poor decision then

[AstrosFan17]

Originally Posted by mnvikingstwins

That's just a poor decision then

Why? I'm not out to make as much money as possible at all costs. I have a good job that supports the lifestyle I want to live. Why would I betray my own conscience just for money?

When you grow up a bit you'll realize that money is meaningless.

[BBases31]

Originally Posted by txrngr34

And for the bot users/defenders: the reason your pricing is unfair is because by using a competitive advantage, you have now virtually cornered the market - aka monopolizing - so you're artificially dictating market value. The market itself is no longer dictating prices.

They don't control the market though, not even close. For what you're saying to be true, there'd have to be a handful of people or entities(say 3 or 4) that control the ENTIRE of supply for a product(hundreds of thousands of boxes) and then those people would all have to price at the same price, never deviate from each other, never auction their goods, and not lower their price.

That's just not reality at all. EBay is the market. Have you ever seen the day after something like Sapphire goes on sale? There's a bunch of absurd BINs posted and then within an hour starts an immediate undercutting race to the bottom on pricing and settles around wherever price boxes are moving regularly.

That's an unmonopolized as it gets.

[AstrosFan17]

Originally Posted by BBases31

They don't control the market though, not even close. For what you're saying to be true, there'd have to be a handful of people or entities(say 3 or 4) that control the ENTIRE of supply for a product(hundreds of thousands of boxes) and then those people would all have to price at the same price, never deviate from each other, never auction their goods, and not lower their price.

That's just not reality at all. EBay is the market. Have you ever seen the day after something like Sapphire goes on sale? There's a bunch of absurd BINs posted and then within an hour starts an immediate undercutting race to the bottom on pricing and settles around wherever price boxes are moving regularly.

That's an unmonopolized as it gets.

I think you're underestimating just how much product is scooped up BOTs and Flippers. I would say the vast majority of it is being scooped by profiteers who hold and let things out in dribs and drabs to make sure that price stays high.

Also, I'm not absolving the idiots out there who pay $100+ for retail blasters of blame in the situation. But one thing can be controlled... you can put measures in to stop BOTing and buying up all of the inventory, you can't do anything to prevent stupidity.

[mnvikingstwins]

Originally Posted by AstrosFan17

I think you're underestimating just how much product is scooped up BOTs and Flippers. I would say the vast majority of it is being scooped by profiteers who hold and let things out in dribs and drabs to make sure that price stays high.

Also, I'm not absolving the idiots out there who pay $100+ for retail blasters of blame in the situation. But one thing can be controlled... you can put measures in to stop BOTing and buying up all of the inventory, you can't do anything to prevent stupidity.

When did sports cards become essential goods?

Profiteering - the act or activity of making an unreasonable profit on the sale of essential goods especially during times of emergency

[AstrosFan17]

Anyway... back on topic. I still have not seen anything drop on Target.com since the May 14th announcement. I know they used to push some products out at 5PM Eastern back before COVID, did that change to only 8AM?

[AstrosFan17]

Originally Posted by mnvikingstwins

When did sports cards become essential goods?

Profiteering - the act or activity of making an unreasonable profit on the sale of essential goods especially during times of emergency

Profiteering - the practice of making or seeking to make an excessive or unfair profit, especially illegally or in a black market.

Nothing to do with essential goods in that definition. Now, profiteering is only ILLEGAL when dealing with essential goods, but that doesn't make it right when dealing with other goods.

[wxguy44]

Originally Posted by mnvikingstwins

When did sports cards become essential goods?

Profiteering - the act or activity of making an unreasonable profit on the sale of essential goods especially during times of emergency

Tickets to events aren't essential, but somehow there is a law to curb botting those.

[theshowandme]

This thread has me questioning the United States education system.

[Archimedes]

Wow, reading this is really something. I've never used a bot and wish there were no bots, but I don't understand the ethical arguments at all. Rules don't define ethics by virtue of the fact that they're rules. Just because a store makes a rule doesn't mean that it's somehow knitted moral fabric. If Target were to say that everyone who enters needs to wear a red hat, and you enter without a red hat, are you being unethical? What if a store mandated that you engage in an unethical act upon entry? Are you being unethical if you don't do that unethical act because that's what the store told you to do?

[babybull]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

This thread has me questioning the United States education system.

This thread? More like the entire site.

[AstrosFan17]

Originally Posted by Archimedes

Wow, reading this is really something. I've never used a bot and wish there were no bots, but I don't understand the ethical arguments at all. Rules don't define ethics by virtue of the fact that they're rules. Just because a store makes a rule doesn't mean that it's somehow knitted moral fabric. If Target were to say that everyone who enters needs to wear a red hat, and you enter without a red hat, are you being unethical? What if a store mandated that you engage in an unethical act upon entry? Are you being unethical if you don't do that unethical act because that's what the store told you to do?

It is unethical to break a rule if it gives you an unfair advantage over another person. Easy as that.

[mma138]

The pickup option will be available until some one gets beat down for there mega boxes.

[Seitas]

Remember when internet speed was the main determinant in getting a hot online purchase?

We’re those that had faster internet speeds acting unethically by having advantage over those who didn’t?

When I switched to Comcast my online purchase success went through the roof. Mainly for shoes....but still.

Honest question...

[AstrosFan17]

Originally Posted by Seitas

Remember when internet speed was the main determinant in getting a hot online purchase?

We’re those that had faster internet speeds acting unethically by having advantage over those who didn’t?

When I switched to Comcast my online purchase success went through the roof. Mainly for shoes....but still.

Honest question...

No, because you're not breaking any rules in that situation. You're not skirting around limits / protections put in place specifically to stop the activity you're partaking in.

BUT, I also don't remember a time when internet speed got in the way of an online purchase and I was in college when the internet was 'invented'.

[Mac302]

Originally Posted by babybull

This thread? More like the entire site.

this site???

more like the internet as a whole

[bloodwings19]

This site?!?!?!? More like earth, I'm ready to be kidnapped by UFOs.