BGS Black Labels, Joe Clemons (eBay ID: wjc75056), and Illegitimate Grading - Page 177

thecardscout · 02-11-2022, 09:12 PM

I know more people have eyes on this now. Looking forward to new information on this matter. Get your Popcorn ready Joey

Topps77 · 02-11-2022, 09:44 PM

BGS black labels are only given to a certain special population I heard.
#PSAorRaw

thecardscout · 02-11-2022, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Topps77

BGS black labels are only given to a certain special population I heard.
#PSAorRaw

I cant debate that. I have been grading with Beckett since 2004. Probably have graded over 1k cards. Get 9.5 all day but have only gotten 4 pristines and no black labels. I graded many of the same cards Joe did, pulled them from packs in fact. Somehow this man got every perfect card. Would love someone to do the math on the odds of that. What a joke Joe Clemons.

dizzydolse · 02-11-2022, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecardscout

I cant debate that. I have been grading with Beckett since 2004. Probably have graded over 1k cards. Get 9.5 all day but have only gotten 4 pristines and no black labels. I graded many of the same cards Joe did, pulled them from packs in fact. Somehow this man got every perfect card. Would love someone to do the math on the odds of that. What a joke Joe Clemons.

The odds have been done in this thread. The odds are next to impossible.

BRob1 · 02-11-2022, 11:11 PM

I’ve always considered black label a scam and can’t believe the multiples they sell at… i have to believe that if you cracked a bunch of black labels and resubmitted them a tiny fraction of them would black label again. Total scam.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

dizzydolse · 02-11-2022, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRob1

I’ve always considered black label a scam and can’t believe the multiples they sell at… i have to believe that if you cracked a bunch of black labels and resubmitted them a tiny fraction of them would black label again. Total scam.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Correct, legit scam from the beginning. Argument could be made for grading in general but...

MoreToppsPlease · 02-12-2022, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Topps77

BGS black labels are only given to a certain special population I heard.
#PSAorRaw

How many are there? I have one somewhere but I’m certainly not special and got it from someone else. Thinking about cracking it out now given this thread.

thecardscout · 02-12-2022, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

How many are there? I have one somewhere but I’m certainly not special and got it from someone else. Thinking about cracking it out now given this thread.

Ask Joe Clemons. I am sure he knows

Onepocketj · 02-12-2022, 01:20 PM

Just ridiculous. The best were the Tiger Woods that had thousands submitted with no 10's. Somehow Joe goes through $1 boxes at shows and picks out Tiger cards that have been gone over by thousands of people and finds the ones that will grade a 10. Idiotic that people place a premium on these cards.

superdan49 · 02-12-2022, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onepocketj

Just ridiculous. The best were the Tiger Woods that had thousands submitted with no 10's. Somehow Joe goes through $1 boxes at shows and picks out Tiger cards that have been gone over by thousands of people and finds the ones that will grade a 10. Idiotic that people place a premium on these cards.

Those Tiger Woods cards are for me the biggest unresolved question of this whole affair. The order in which they were graded did not appear in Joe's Beckett account.

pip · 02-12-2022, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superdan49

Those Tiger Woods cards are for me the biggest unresolved question of this whole affair. The order in which they were graded did not appear in Joe's Beckett account.

Vest pocket grading? Gratis? Do-it-yourself visitor grading?

tonedef2oo8 · 02-13-2022, 02:21 PM

Leaf connected to fraud? Noooooo

But I thought Mr gray was the self proclaimed hobby savior? Remember when he said he would never use stickers cause they are ruining the hobby? Remember when he said he wouldn’t make better versions of his released cards, and then did just that and only sold them on leafs eBay?

Used car salesman 101, but this one had to buy a company’s name and history in order to distract from his epic razor failure.

auburn35 · 02-13-2022, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superdan49

Those Tiger Woods cards are for me the biggest unresolved question of this whole affair. The order in which they were graded did not appear in Joe's Beckett account.

The surrounding cert runs were all Leaf submissions (the best of basketball product), so with the Tiger's not on Joe's account, it's likely they were submitted through the company (Leaf) account.

Asian62150 · 02-13-2022, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzydolse

Or just stop being scum

Easier said than done, apparently/unfortunately.

dizzydolse · 02-13-2022, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asian62150

Easier said than done, apparently/unfortunately.

Yeah I don't see Brian Gray changing his character anytime soon.

thecardscout · 02-14-2022, 01:09 AM

Do we know who graded these cards for Joe? Joe obviously was the submitter who was a previous employee with beckett. But there should be a trail to see if the same grader was grading his cards. Do we have this information?

pip · 02-14-2022, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecardscout

Do we know who graded these cards for Joe? Joe obviously was the submitter who was a previous employee with beckett. But there should be a trail to see if the same grader was grading his cards. Do we have this information?

A better question would be: was he ever in the grading room while his cards were being evaluated?

Asian62150 · 02-14-2022, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecardscout

Do we know who graded these cards for Joe? Joe obviously was the submitter who was a previous employee with beckett. But there should be a trail to see if the same grader was grading his cards. Do we have this information?

It would be nice to have transparency in who grades what.

But the identity of graders should also be protected.

You don't want ppl finding out who the graders are and slipping them money under the table.

discostu · 02-14-2022, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecardscout

Do we know who graded these cards for Joe? Joe obviously was the submitter who was a previous employee with beckett. But there should be a trail to see if the same grader was grading his cards. Do we have this information?

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip

A better question would be: was he ever in the grading room while his cards were being evaluated?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asian62150

It would be nice to have transparency in who grades what.

But the identity of graders should also be protected.

You don't want ppl finding out who the graders are and slipping them money under the table.

Let's circle back here...Joe used to work for BGS.

There is/was little anonymity in grading orders like this.

mattglet · 02-14-2022, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecardscout

Kudos to the people who did on the leg work on this. I am disgusted and expect a response from Beckett otherwise I will never grade with them again. And Leaf is Garbage.

Judging by how long this whole thing has been going on... if you haven't seen a response from Beckett yet you probably should take that as your answer.

mjohnatgt · 02-14-2022, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattglet

Judging by how long this whole thing has been going on... if you haven't seen a response from Beckett yet you probably should take that as your answer.

Is their corporate owner still in jail?

thecardscout · 02-16-2022, 11:28 PM

How does Beckett not respond to this?? who is running beckett lol

pip · 02-16-2022, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

Is their corporate owner still in jail?

Yes. I believe so. His appeal was rejected.

twist1one · 02-16-2022, 11:40 PM

has anyone bothered to look at and of these black labels under magnification and found flaws? that would be the easiest way to prove something was off. but to go back and forth and hearsay is ridiculous. takes some high rez scans of the cards find the flaws show proof and beckett may start pulling the serial numbers.

thecardscout · 02-16-2022, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twist1one

has anyone bothered to look at and of these black labels under magnification and found flaws? that would be the easiest way to prove something was off. but to go back and forth and hearsay is ridiculous. takes some high rez scans of the cards find the flaws show proof and beckett may start pulling the serial numbers.

would love to see someone buy when break it out of the slab and see it come back a BGS 9 LOL

02-13-2022, 02:21 PM	#4412
tonedef2oo8 Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 7,325	Leaf connected to fraud? Noooooo But I thought Mr gray was the self proclaimed hobby savior? Remember when he said he would never use stickers cause they are ruining the hobby? Remember when he said he wouldn’t make better versions of his released cards, and then did just that and only sold them on leafs eBay? Used car salesman 101, but this one had to buy a company’s name and history in order to distract from his epic razor failure. __________________ *“ I am very good at calculating stuff. 160+60=210 “* Last edited by tonedef2oo8; 02-13-2022 at 02:23 PM.

02-11-2022, 09:12 PM	#4401
thecardscout Member Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 367	I know more people have eyes on this now. Looking forward to new information on this matter. Get your Popcorn ready Joey

02-11-2022, 09:44 PM	#4402
Topps77 Member Join Date: May 2020 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 156	BGS black labels are only given to a certain special population I heard. #PSAorRaw

02-11-2022, 11:11 PM	#4405
BRob1 Member Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 7,116	I’ve always considered black label a scam and can’t believe the multiples they sell at… i have to believe that if you cracked a bunch of black labels and resubmitted them a tiny fraction of them would black label again. Total scam. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

02-12-2022, 01:20 PM	#4409
Onepocketj Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 22,190 jeflave-0 onepocketj	Just ridiculous. The best were the Tiger Woods that had thousands submitted with no 10's. Somehow Joe goes through $1 boxes at shows and picks out Tiger cards that have been gone over by thousands of people and finds the ones that will grade a 10. Idiotic that people place a premium on these cards.

02-14-2022, 01:09 AM	#4416
thecardscout Member Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 367	Do we know who graded these cards for Joe? Joe obviously was the submitter who was a previous employee with beckett. But there should be a trail to see if the same grader was grading his cards. Do we have this information?

02-16-2022, 11:28 PM	#4422
thecardscout Member Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 367	How does Beckett not respond to this?? who is running beckett lol

02-16-2022, 11:40 PM	#4424
twist1one Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 94 DGCardAuctions	has anyone bothered to look at and of these black labels under magnification and found flaws? that would be the easiest way to prove something was off. but to go back and forth and hearsay is ridiculous. takes some high rez scans of the cards find the flaws show proof and beckett may start pulling the serial numbers.