2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[gopherfan]

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

So firstly, i don't think a board that deals with a fairly expensive hobby is going to be representative. Likely most people on here have at least some disposable income and have done fairly well.

Second, it is possible, but it is needlessly harder than it should be and used to be since we have stacked the system to transfer wealth to corporations and the mega rich.

I think of my grandparents. One was a milkman the other a mailman. They both had three children, both bought houses in the suburbs of Pittsburgh, both put their children through college, both were able to retire at a normal age, the milkman was able to save enough money while doing all this to buy his own business a beer distributor. This was in the 50's to 70's.

Today, you could not possibly accomplish that. You cannot do a family of 5 on a single income of a postman or milkman.

That is my issue. Wages have stagnated while the cost of living has exploded. You shouldn't have to work 80 hours a week simply to live and support your family. This idea that corporations and the very rich need more and more tax breaks so they can reinvest is undeniably false because it doesn't happen. Especially starting in the 80's we have seen the justification for these tax cuts over and over, yet all it has done is redistribute wealth in this country to the rich.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...d-for-decades/

https://www.cbpp.org/research/povert...ome-inequality

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth...ted_States.png

I could link an almost infinite amount of charts and studies.

I simply don't understand why we continue to support a system that is basically rigged to benefit the very richest few people.

I've seen posts like this in various forms over the years. If you want to live like they did in the 50's, you certainly could do that today. Eliminate cell phones, only have one car. No family vacations. One tv, no cable or internet. Eat out once a month at most. Kids wear hand me downs, and play in the neighborhood instead of on one of their 4 electronic devices. Home is a 3 bedroom one bath. Boys in one bedroom, girls in the other. (Think Brady Bunch).

[gopherfan]

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

If by temperament you mean his racism, bigotry, and sexism, yes that should be important. If you ignore the fact that he is all those things and support him anyways it makes you an enabler of those things.

Also, Trump's policies are horrendous. He killed probably 100000 Americans with his response to COVID, where a better national response could have saved a ton of lives.

Backing out of the Paris accords is appalling.

HIs economic policies have helped the rich and stockholders, who are basically the same people, and done absolutely nothing for everyday Americans.

He wants to curtail the rights of women, LGBTQ, and minority communities. He staunchly opposes any sort of police reform.

For four years all we have heard is "I have a healthcare plan to replace Obamacare." What is it? Where is it?

Tell me more. Do you know anything about this? Where are the USA numbers compared to other countries, and how have they done lately?

[mike1498]

Originally Posted by Onions

Those are the people that will be helped the most. They will have higher paying jobs to move in to. That is the rung that was kicked out. Moving production overseas has been devastating.

Taxing the crap out of China will just create dead weight loss. Maybe you create a few jobs in America but less of that product will be purchased. Also, that doesn't really mean their wages will go up (especially in relation to inflation). You have to remember, we need to tax them just so our labor costs are even.

The reason why we lost jobs to China is that they are able to keep labor costs down. Taxing them doesn't mean we can all the sudden raise the wages of workers.

[coachnip13]

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

Because you are insulting people that say it is a struggle. Put your money where your mouth is then. See how doable it is instead of demeaning people that do struggle with that exact situation.

I haven't insulted anyone and I never claimed that it isn't a struggle. This works a lot better if you only respond to peoples' words and not what you wish they wrote.

Just because it's a struggle doesn't mean the rest of us should bail them out.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

Not the tough guy approach, but it is incredibly insulting to someone to tell them just to try harder and their issues will be fixed, then tell them if they can’t live on minimum wage they are just irresponsible.



But in any case.



1100 a month cleared.



550 for rent.

100-150 for utilities.

100 for a transit pass here, and you better hope you have access because our public transit sucks.

50 dollars for maybe a burner phone

70 dollars for internet, as I consider that a need if you want to find better employment.



That means you are spending 850-900 on just that listed above. Good luck on living on 200 for everything else you need!

As to the bolded, I don't. First, you'd have internet on your phone. Second, there are other ways.

[gopherfan]

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

Serious question. Do you trust corrupt large corporations to spend that money in the right place? I could make the exact same arguments about tax cuts for the very rich and corporations.

Not one of you have addressed the massive redistribution of wealth the last 40 years.

https://equitablegrowth.org/the-dist...net-worth-tax/

Again, you advocate tax cuts, but for the vast majority of Americans it does not benefit them. You may be doing well, but in most cases all of us are just less poor while the very rich continue to accumulate more wealth.

Do you know why tax cuts don't benefit the vast majority of Americans? Because tons of Americans don't pay any federal income tax. How are they going benefit when something they don't participate in is reduced?

[Jgil316]

McEnany tests positive - and Christy is in the hospital.

This thing has spread far and wide

[ballhawkdawk]

Here's where migrants want to move to: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/...ant-to-move-to

"Gallup interviewed approaching 587,000 people aged over 15 in 156 countries between 2013 and 2016 to come up with its figures."

% of respondents naming USA: 21%
Second highest: 6% (Germany)

Absolutely crushing the field. And you're telling me that America is a terrible place to be if you're poor. Incredible. Poor people around the world believe otherwise. My Russian mother-in-law believed otherwise. My wife's relatives still in Russia believe otherwise. My friends from Mexico and Ecuador believed otherwise. They risked everything to come here. But because you got a degree in music and you're unlikely to make six figures making jingles for PBS kids shows the system is busted. I can't even.

[coachnip13]

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

Not the tough guy approach, but it is incredibly insulting to someone to tell them just to try harder and their issues will be fixed, then tell them if they can’t live on minimum wage they are just irresponsible.

But in any case.

1100 a month cleared.

550 for rent.
100-150 for utilities.
100 for a transit pass here, and you better hope you have access because our public transit sucks.
50 dollars for maybe a burner phone
70 dollars for internet, as I consider that a need if you want to find better employment.

That means you are spending 850-900 on just that listed above. Good luck on living on 200 for everything else you need!

That's America for you. When describing how difficult it is to live on a certain wage, you have to make sure the person has a cell phone and internet access.

[Jgil316]

Oh - almost forgot, Barr is self quarantining as well

[Alvarez09]

Originally Posted by Onions

Those are the people that will be helped the most. They will have higher paying jobs to move in to. That is the rung that was kicked out. Moving production overseas has been devastating.

You have to get those jobs back in the first place though, otherwise companies will just raise prices and not create jobs here.

[Onions]

Originally Posted by mike1498

Taxing the crap out of China will just create dead weight loss. Maybe you create a few jobs in America but less of that product will be purchased. Also, that doesn't really mean their wages will go up (especially in relation to inflation). You have to remember, we need to tax them just so our labor costs are even.

The reason why we lost jobs to China is that they are able to keep labor costs down. Taxing them doesn't mean we can all the sudden raise the wages of workers.

Cheap labor in China existed long before our terrible trade policies were implented. We lost jobs to China as a direct result of those poor policies. We allowed them to take production from us. In fact, we incentivised it. Stupid.

[coachnip13]

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

Absolutely crushing the field. And you're telling me that America is a terrible place to be if you're poor. Incredible. Poor people around the world believe otherwise. My Russian mother-in-law believed otherwise. My wife's relatives still in Russia believe otherwise. My friends from Mexico and Ecuador believed otherwise. They risked everything to come here. But because you got a degree in music and you're unlikely to make six figures making jingles for PBS kids shows the system is busted. I can't even.

Some of these people have no idea what "poor" really looks like. The poor around the world live five people to a box and have raw sewage running down the streets. The poor in America have pizza and rent a movie from Redbox on Saturday night.

[Alvarez09]

Originally Posted by gopherfan

Do you know why tax cuts don't benefit the vast majority of Americans? Because tons of Americans don't pay any federal income tax. How are they going benefit when something they don't participate in is reduced?

Good to know it won’t benefit Donald trump!

[gopherfan]

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

I think I answered this before I saw it. I simply disagree, because we can at least hold government officials responsible through elections. If telecom companies or airlines take their tax cuts and do stock buybacks, there is very little that can be done to hold them accountable.

BTW, this happened exactly with companies like American. They massively increased revenue due to the Trump tax cuts. They spent a huge amount of that on stock buy backs, and were one of the first companies and industries to scream for bailout money during COVID. I found it ironic that we always here about personal responsibility and 6 month emergency funds but the airlines couldn't last two weeks before they were about to collapse.

I don't think we will disagree that big corporations are sucking the rest of us dry...but like I said that is why I would rather money go to the govenment where I at least get to vote against them.

The only reason I agree with corporations in this situation, is because they had nothing to do with shutting down the economy. The government did that.

If the government came and told you that you couldn't do your job anymore, I wouldn't hold you responsible for that. Same as many across the country right now.

[Onions]

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

You have to get those jobs back in the first place though, otherwise companies will just raise prices and not create jobs here.

Yep. We certainly painted ourselves into a corner.

[Alvarez09]

Originally Posted by gopherfan

The only reason I agree with corporations in this situation, is because they had nothing to do with shutting down the economy. The government did that.

If the government came and told you that you couldn't do your job anymore, I wouldn't hold you responsible for that. Same as many across the country right now.

That is fair in this case, but what about the auto and bank bailout.

Also, in this case we are continuing to try and prop up corporations but have basically stopped help rank and file workers that lost jobs.

[Alvarez09]

Originally Posted by Onions

Yep. We certainly painted ourselves into a corner.

It is a combination of bad foreign policy on both sides and simple math that labor is exponentially cheaper in China.

[coachnip13]

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

Not the tough guy approach, but it is incredibly insulting to someone to tell them just to try harder and their issues will be fixed, then tell them if they can’t live on minimum wage they are just irresponsible.

But in any case.

1100 a month cleared.

550 for rent.
100-150 for utilities.
100 for a transit pass here, and you better hope you have access because our public transit sucks.
50 dollars for maybe a burner phone
70 dollars for internet, as I consider that a need if you want to find better employment.

That means you are spending 850-900 on just that listed above. Good luck on living on 200 for everything else you need!

Obvious solution #1: get a roommate.

[Boo]

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

Not the tough guy approach, but it is incredibly insulting to someone to tell them just to try harder and their issues will be fixed, then tell them if they can’t live on minimum wage they are just irresponsible.

But in any case.

1100 a month cleared.

550 for rent.
100-150 for utilities.
100 for a transit pass here, and you better hope you have access because our public transit sucks.
50 dollars for maybe a burner phone
70 dollars for internet, as I consider that a need if you want to find better employment.

That means you are spending 850-900 on just that listed above. Good luck on living on 200 for everything else you need!

There are literally thousands of jobs right now within 20 miles from me paying between $15-$18/hour, warehouse work (so little to no education/skill needed). $15/hr = over $2,000 after taxes.

[mike1498]

Originally Posted by Onions

Cheap labor in China existed long before our terrible trade policies were implented. We lost jobs to China as a direct result of those poor policies. We allowed them to take production from us. In fact, we incentivised it. Stupid.

Okay, if it's not labor costs, then why can't we start making stuff in the US now? Why is it every time I watch shark tank, the first question, "Is this being made oversees?". Investors/companies want the lowest input costs. You want to make quality goods in america, charge a premium. Some are successful. The lowest income will not benefit from manufacturing in china. Wages are considered "sticky" which means they will adjust in the long run. Maybe over time they would be fine, but in the short term, they would be killed by inflation.

[Alvarez09]

Originally Posted by Jgil316

McEnany tests positive - and Christy is in the hospital.

This thing has spread far and wide

I keep hearing that trump couldn’t have saved lives, but a freaking national mask mandate would have helped tremendously.

[Alvarez09]

Originally Posted by coachnip13

Some of these people have no idea what "poor" really looks like. The poor around the world live five people to a box and have raw sewage running down the streets. The poor in America have pizza and rent a movie from Redbox on Saturday night.

We are the richest country in the world. Should we resell compare our standard of living to the third world and use it as a success and say we are doing better?

[Astros19]

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

Not the tough guy approach, but it is incredibly insulting to someone to tell them just to try harder and their issues will be fixed, then tell them if they can’t live on minimum wage they are just irresponsible.



But in any case.



1100 a month cleared.



550 for rent.

100-150 for utilities.

100 for a transit pass here, and you better hope you have access because our public transit sucks.

50 dollars for maybe a burner phone

70 dollars for internet, as I consider that a need if you want to find better employment.



That means you are spending 850-900 on just that listed above. Good luck on living on 200 for everything else you need!

As I grew up and moved out of my parent's home I didn't make a lot of money. You're right, I probably wouldn't have been able to afford it.
So, you know what I did?
I found roommates to share the expenses. Why is this never mentioned by you or others who think like you?
It seems like a no Brainer to me.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[coachnip13]

Originally Posted by Boo

There are literally thousands of jobs right now within 20 miles from me paying between $15-$18/hour, warehouse work (so little to no education/skill needed). $15/hr = over $2,000 after taxes.

That word right there is the problem for many people who are "stuck" in a minimum wage job. Alvarez is going to blast me for being insensitive, but too many people just have no interest in actually working for something. That's why the AOC answer is to just give them money.