Did WhatNot Open a FAKE 1986-87 Fleer Basketball Box at The National? - Page 2

KhalDrogo · 08-11-2022, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonic3

I didn't watch the break or follow it, but how many Jordan rc's did they pull out of the box? I guess even if they pulled a couple the person faking the box could have replaced the original ones pulled with lesser quality copies (off center, bad corners, etc...).

They pulled three. A 5, 5, and 6. And everyone was crying how ridiculous was to grade these pack fresh examples so low.

BBCE will say the box was resealed. Too bad these dumb dumb with whatnot didn’t catch it live.

GOATcards · 08-11-2022, 03:22 PM

can anything be trusted in this hobby, AbraCalabro, what with the PSA 8 Wagner's history being what it is?

YayNJ · 08-11-2022, 03:29 PM

It's hilarious (not in a good way) just how many low-life-scumbags there are in this "hobby".

I genuinely can't think of anything else like it, where there is such a concentration of thieving corrupt criminals than sportscards / pokemon.

Look at the state of this whole situation. A crappy selling platform having packs opened by "youtube celebs" most of which are completely and utterly clueless. This hobby since 2018 has been on a rollercoaster to the gutter and is nothing but bulls hit, thieves and fame whores.

ChefCurry312 · 08-11-2022, 03:38 PM

After seeing the BBCE sealed Pokémon case incident, I feel like their authentication is mostly security theater.

Tonic3 · 08-11-2022, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

They pulled three. A 5, 5, and 6. And everyone was crying how ridiculous was to grade these pack fresh examples so low.

BBCE will say the box was resealed. Too bad these dumb dumb with whatnot didn’t catch it live.

Wow, so lets do the math. The box cost $168,000 so a single pack is roughly $4,667. The people that were lucky enough to hit one of the three Jordan's then had to grade it which adds on a few hundred dollars to the cost. A PSA 6 sold on eBay on Aug 9th for $4,450. So essentially the "luckiest" person in the break still lost money. Just shows how stupid the pricing is for these boxes.

Even if all 3 Jordan's would've graded a PSA 9, that's only about $60,000 in value. Nothing like throwing away a guaranteed 80-100k.

MJGOAT23 · 08-11-2022, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChefCurry312

After seeing the BBCE sealed Pokémon case incident, I feel like their authentication is mostly security theater.

I've bought plenty of items from them with no issues, BBCE wrapped or not but when it comes to 86 Fleer, IMO it is far and away the most tampered with product industry wide, and has been for 30 years. Besides that find from upstate NY and the case that was auctioned a couple years ago or whenever it was, are any real boxes actually left of this stuff? I certainly wonder.

KhalDrogo · 08-11-2022, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonic3

Wow, so lets do the math. The box cost $168,000 so a single pack is roughly $4,667. The people that were lucky enough to hit one of the three Jordan's then had to grade it which adds on a few hundred dollars to the cost. A PSA 6 sold on eBay on Aug 9th for $4,450. So essentially the "luckiest" person in the break still lost money. Just shows how stupid the pricing is for these boxes.

Even if all 3 Jordan's would've graded a PSA 9, that's only about $60,000 in value. Nothing like throwing away a guaranteed 80-100k.

It was a free break.

YayNJ · 08-11-2022, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

It was a free break.

It wasn't for somebody.

mindcycle · 08-11-2022, 04:06 PM

The scam fallout from the hobby boom is going to last for years to come.

Too much money to be made for scammers, buyers with more money than hobby knowledge. Social media clout over actually researching what they're buying..

MJGOAT23 · 08-11-2022, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonic3

Wow, so lets do the math. The box cost $168,000 so a single pack is roughly $4,667. The people that were lucky enough to hit one of the three Jordan's then had to grade it which adds on a few hundred dollars to the cost. A PSA 6 sold on eBay on Aug 9th for $4,450. So essentially the "luckiest" person in the break still lost money. Just shows how stupid the pricing is for these boxes.

Even if all 3 Jordan's would've graded a PSA 9, that's only about $60,000 in value. Nothing like throwing away a guaranteed 80-100k.

Box pricing is stupid for any product really but the market value for an '86 box is in the item being authentic and unopened more so than the potential contents. Prices have ALWAYS been higher than a great scenario of pulling 3 PSA 10 MJ's. When these were 30K a box, MJ PSA 10's were in the 10K range and so on.

RogerGodahell · 08-11-2022, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brettmik59

I would not feel great about sitting on "sealed" wax of any high value product right now.

The silver lining is at least it was a free giveaway. It's not a good look for BBCE though. I'm glad i never wasted any money sending stuff to them. I thought about it at one time.

I feel pretty confident about the unopened stuff i have. 99% of it was bought as a presale when the product was brand new and wasn't worth a whole lot at the time. But i can see the concern about who is legit to buy from now and who isn't. Worst case scenario i would break the stuff myself and offer refunds to all buyers if i ever found a box that was bogus. I might have to do that someday. I'll cross that bridge when i get there.

pete2345 · 08-11-2022, 04:22 PM

Guy needs to sand down his drywall looks terrible obviously plenty of time on his hands.

tjforce · 08-11-2022, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mindcycle

The scam fallout from the hobby boom is going to last for years to come.

Too much money to be made for scammers, buyers with more money than hobby knowledge. Social media clout over actually researching what they're buying..

Can you remember a time in the hobby that wasn't full of scammers?

boxbuster7 · 08-11-2022, 04:34 PM

Can't believe Packman made a surprise appearance. I thought he only opened new products.

YayNJ · 08-11-2022, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxbuster7

Can't believe Packman made a surprise appearance. I thought he only opened new products.

I had no idea he was so popular. I've only ever seen him bumbling through retail blaster boxes and doing slow card slide reveals of base prizm cards.

ChefCurry312 · 08-11-2022, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJGOAT23

I've bought plenty of items from them with no issues, BBCE wrapped or not but when it comes to 86 Fleer, IMO it is far and away the most tampered with product industry wide, and has been for 30 years. Besides that find from upstate NY and the case that was auctioned a couple years ago or whenever it was, are any real boxes actually left of this stuff? I certainly wonder.

A majority of BBCE wrapped stuff is probably legit. IMO, BBCE is effective at scaring off scammers and catching the more obvious fakes. I think skilled scammers can pass their authentication because they don't have expert knowledge on particular products and don't dedicate enough time to research/authenticate.

For the Pokemon case, it was a high-value authentication and supposedly the one in existence. BBCE didn't even bother to look into the bar code (1st red flag) or research the chain of ownership (tons of red flags).

mc1 · 08-11-2022, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonic3

I didn't watch the break or follow it, but how many Jordan rc's did they pull out of the box? I guess even if they pulled a couple the person faking the box could have replaced the original ones pulled with lesser quality copies (off center, bad corners, etc...).

Total of three.

Already answered!

YayNJ · 08-11-2022, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChefCurry312

A majority of BBCE wrapped stuff is probably legit. IMO, BBCE is effective at scaring off scammers and catching the more obvious fakes. I think skilled scammers can pass their authentication because they don't have expert knowledge on particular products and don't dedicate enough time to research/authenticate.

For the Pokemon case, it was a high-value authentication and supposedly the one in existence. BBCE didn't even bother to look into the bar code (1st red flag) or research the chain of ownership (tons of red flags).

Then they shouldn't be offering the service that they do.

C'mon man, this is one of the more famous boxes in Basketball.

cruiserdaddy7 · 08-11-2022, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YayNJ

Then they shouldn't be offering the service that they do.

C'mon man, this is one of the more famous boxes in Basketball.

Exactly. The fact people make excuses after some massive fails amazes me. And Steve Hart has no guarantees, so what good is the service?

mc1 · 08-11-2022, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YayNJ

It's hilarious (not in a good way) just how many low-life-scumbags there are in this "hobby".

I genuinely can't think of anything else like it, where there is such a concentration of thieving corrupt criminals than sportscards / pokemon.

Look at the state of this whole situation. A crappy selling platform having packs opened by "youtube celebs" most of which are completely and utterly clueless. This hobby since 2018 has been on a rollercoaster to the gutter and is nothing but bulls hit, thieves and fame whores.

I once worked with and dealt with future medical professionals.

Full of scumbags, cheaters and liars. A couple killers too.

Thats just human nature.

GOATcards · 08-11-2022, 05:00 PM

speaking of unopened 86 fleer wax, what ever became of the 'Baseball Card Kid' from the '90s who did high volume on that? does chain-of-custody documentation make a 'Kid'-authenticated box carry a premium?

hxcmilkshake · 08-11-2022, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOATcards

speaking of unopened 86 fleer wax, what ever became of the 'Baseball Card Kid' from the '90s who did high volume on that? does chain-of-custody documentation make a 'Kid'-authenticated box carry a premium?

If I recall some of his stuff had issues too.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

boston12 · 08-11-2022, 05:12 PM

Why does he yell like that at the end. I’m glad it’s been exposed. But that weird yelling thing at the end was too much.

imbluestreak23 · 08-11-2022, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YayNJ

It's hilarious (not in a good way) just how many low-life-scumbags there are in this "hobby".

I genuinely can't think of anything else like it, where there is such a concentration of thieving corrupt criminals than sportscards / pokemon.

Look at the state of this whole situation. A crappy selling platform having packs opened by "youtube celebs" most of which are completely and utterly clueless. This hobby since 2018 has been on a rollercoaster to the gutter and is nothing but bulls hit, thieves and fame whores.

Not wrong

imbluestreak23 · 08-11-2022, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mc1

I once worked with and dealt with future medical professionals.

Full of scumbags, cheaters and liars. A couple killers too.

Thats just human nature.

Also not wrong

08-11-2022, 03:29 PM	#28
YayNJ Member Join Date: May 2020 Location: London / Oahu Posts: 8,284 hanelcocards	It's hilarious (not in a good way) just how many low-life-scumbags there are in this "hobby". I genuinely can't think of anything else like it, where there is such a concentration of thieving corrupt criminals than sportscards / pokemon. Look at the state of this whole situation. A crappy selling platform having packs opened by "youtube celebs" most of which are completely and utterly clueless. This hobby since 2018 has been on a rollercoaster to the gutter and is nothing but bulls hit, thieves and fame whores. Last edited by YayNJ; 08-11-2022 at 03:41 PM.

08-11-2022, 04:06 PM	#34
mindcycle Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 5,043	The scam fallout from the hobby boom is going to last for years to come. Too much money to be made for scammers, buyers with more money than hobby knowledge. Social media clout over actually researching what they're buying.. Last edited by mindcycle; 08-11-2022 at 04:10 PM.

08-11-2022, 04:34 PM	#39
boxbuster7 Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 12,505 boxbuster777	Can't believe Packman made a surprise appearance. I thought he only opened new products. __________________ Psa 9 > psa 10

08-11-2022, 03:22 PM	#27
GOATcards Member Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 6,492	can anything be trusted in this hobby, AbraCalabro, what with the PSA 8 Wagner's history being what it is?

08-11-2022, 03:38 PM	#29
ChefCurry312 Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Posts: 567	After seeing the BBCE sealed Pokémon case incident, I feel like their authentication is mostly security theater.

08-11-2022, 04:22 PM	#37
pete2345 Banned Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Birthplace of Michael Jordan home of biggie smalls! Posts: 4,125	Guy needs to sand down his drywall looks terrible obviously plenty of time on his hands.

08-11-2022, 05:00 PM	#46
GOATcards Member Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 6,492	speaking of unopened 86 fleer wax, what ever became of the 'Baseball Card Kid' from the '90s who did high volume on that? does chain-of-custody documentation make a 'Kid'-authenticated box carry a premium?

08-11-2022, 05:12 PM	#48
boston12 Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 3,282	Why does he yell like that at the end. I’m glad it’s been exposed. But that weird yelling thing at the end was too much.