50 games in - who is your rookie of the year? - Page 24

tjforce · 03-31-2018, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross

Pistons aren’t even in playoffs so that’s makes zero sense.

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Ok. So now we are adding the caveat of having to make the playoffs to having different skill sets?

So should Harden split the MVP award with Anthony Davis since they have different games and are the best at what they do (Davis leading the league in blocked shots and all bigs in scoring)?

Ross · 03-31-2018, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjforce

Ok. So now we are adding the caveat of having to make the playoffs to having different skill sets?

So should Harden split the MVP award with Anthony Davis since they have different games and are the best at what they do (Davis leading the league in blocked shots and all bigs in scoring)?

Davis has had a solid year no doubt. Let’s put Lebron in there to.

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jcardstore · 03-31-2018, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross

It’s all a matter of type of player. Donovan is equally as deserving.

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He's only equally as deserving because that's who you want. The race may have been close in some people's eyes a month ago but Simmons has it locked up. I think the only people who still believe Mitchell has a chance are you, 27guy, and people who invested in his cards.

Throw in the towel, the race is over

Cavs16 · 03-31-2018, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcardstore

He's only equally as deserving because that's who you want. The race may have been close in some people's eyes a month ago but Simmons has it locked up. I think the only people who still believe Mitchell has a chance are you, 27guy, and people who invested in his cards.

Throw in the towel, the race is over

I’m sure someone has pointed this out somewhere in this thread...but the talent Simmons plays with on his team is 10x’s (probably even more) better then what Mitchell has on the Jazz. It’s absolutely amazing what he has done for that team given his situation. Imagine what he could do if Embiid, Saric, Covington, etc were on the Jazz. So, Mitchell is well deserving of ROY...and no I did not invest in Mitchell, for those who talk about investing in cards. I just love basketball I don’t invest in cards (just stocks).

drobfan8 · 03-31-2018, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cavs16

I’m sure someone has pointed this out somewhere in this thread...but the talent Simmons plays with on his team is 10x’s (probably even more) better then what Mitchell has on the Jazz. It’s absolutely amazing what he has done for that team given his situation. Imagine what he could do if Embiid, Saric, Covington, etc were on the Jazz. So, Mitchell is well deserving of ROY...and no I did not invest in Mitchell, for those who talk about investing in cards. I just love basketball I don’t invest in cards (just stocks).

This is garbage.

Philly have talent but zero experience on how to win other than Redick.

Gobert, Fav, Ingles and Rubio is the perfect core for DM to thrive.

10 times is laughable.

You could make an argument for either supporting cast to be stronger, but it wouldn't be by much, either way.

DM has been a great rookie, better than plenty that have won it before, but unfortunately he's up against a guy putting up numbers never been done before.

Wiseysez · 03-31-2018, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cavs16

I’m sure someone has pointed this out somewhere in this thread...but the talent Simmons plays with on his team is 10x’s (probably even more) better then what Mitchell has on the Jazz. It’s absolutely amazing what he has done for that team given his situation. Imagine what he could do if Embiid, Saric, Covington, etc were on the Jazz. So, Mitchell is well deserving of ROY...and no I did not invest in Mitchell, for those who talk about investing in cards. I just love basketball I don’t invest in cards (just stocks).

And if those players were on the Jazz his numbers might be half of what they are because he would in no way be the offensive focal point of that team.

tjforce · 04-01-2018, 01:30 PM

For anyone who says that Ben can't take over the game : he's on a streak where he's scored or assisted on 30 of the last 31 sixers points

Cavs16 · 04-01-2018, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiseysez

And if those players were on the Jazz his numbers might be half of what they are because he would in no way be the offensive focal point of that team.

Exactly...he would average the same amount of points as Simmons does now 14 instead of 21.....hmmm?

ThoseBackPages · 04-01-2018, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjforce

For anyone who says that Ben can't take over the game : he's on a streak where he's scored or assisted on 30 of the last 31 sixers points

cant shoot
not a rookie
doesnt have "IT"
tall, decided to play basketball

tjforce · 04-01-2018, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cavs16

Exactly...he would average the same amount of points as Simmons does now 14 instead of 21.....hmmm?

It's 16 and 20.3, but if you think you can exaggerate both numbers to fit your narrative be my guest.

tjforce · 04-01-2018, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

cant shoot
not a rookie
doesnt have "IT"
tall, decided to play basketball

Can't win with out Embiid.... and Saric.....

Today did it for me. I've been on the Simmons side of the argument for a while, though it was pretty close back in maybe January. But now I'm calling it. It's Simmons' award.

20/8/15/3 and 2 with only 1 turnover and shooting 59% today without two starters.

I could argue that he's been a top 10 player in the NBA over the last month.

Cavs16 · 04-01-2018, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjforce

It's 16 and 20.3, but if you think you can exaggerate both numbers to fit your narrative be my guest.

woohoo that extra pt has swung me in your favor..thanks for the clarification

broncomanning18 · 04-01-2018, 03:04 PM

Simmons has been pretty stinking good this last month, I am slightly surprised his cards havent been slightly increasing.

tjforce · 04-01-2018, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cavs16

woohoo that extra pt has swung me in your favor..thanks for the clarification

Do the math it was about a 3 point swing.

BlueXtreme · 04-01-2018, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjforce

It's 16 and 20.3, but if you think you can exaggerate both numbers to fit your narrative be my guest.

Not at all arguing with this. But speaking of exaggerating numbers or catering stats to fit purposes. I noticed a lot of people in this thread use stats to justify Simmons over Mitchell. But when I compare Lebron to Jordan, suddenly stats don’t matter.
Not pointing anyone out, because I really don’t even remember the members who did.

Why do stats matter in one scenario, but not the other? Not saying this is the case for this scenario. Just in general. When do stats not tell the whole story? Or are stats the whole story and everything else is biases?

tjforce · 04-01-2018, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueXtreme

Not at all arguing with this. But speaking of exaggerating numbers or catering stats to fit purposes. I noticed a lot of people in this thread use stats to justify Simmons over Mitchell. But when I compare Lebron to Jordan, suddenly stats don’t matter.
Not pointing anyone out, because I really don’t even remember the members who did.

Why do stats matter in one scenario, but not the other? Not saying this is the case for this scenario. Just in general. When do stats not tell the whole story? Or are stats the whole story and everything else is biases?

Duuuuddde...can we please not make this a Lebron/MJ thread?

If you can target someone specific that is contradicting themselves, then by all means call them out. But if it's just a general observance let's just walk away.

RogerGodahell · 04-01-2018, 03:23 PM

Now that Tatum has to be the man in Boston he's been playing great. Not that he hasn't played great all year, but to carry the team i think he'd be more in the conversation if they didn't have Kyrie.

tjforce · 04-01-2018, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerGodahell

Now that Tatum has to be the man in Boston he's been playing great. Not that he hasn't played great all year, but to carry the team i think he'd be more in the conversation if they didn't have Kyrie.

If this were a year ago he'd be the far and away winner.

Unfortunately this year he'll probably finish 3rd.

BlueXtreme · 04-01-2018, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjforce

Duuuuddde...can we please not make this a Lebron/MJ thread?

If you can target someone specific that is contradicting themselves, then by all means call them out. But if it's just a general observance let's just walk away.

I’m not making this an MJ/LeBron argument. I’m proving a point. If people can sit there and say MJ Is better despite the stats. Then why not for ROY?
Just calling everyones’ attention to it.

Not looking to do any bashing or call anyone out or argue, really. I know that’s a mute point on here. Just want a genuine discussion

RogerGodahell · 04-01-2018, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjforce

If this were a year ago he'd be the far and away winner.

Unfortunately this year he'll probably finish 3rd.

Oh i know he isn't going to win. But i think a large reason he isn't in the running is because he plays on a good team. There's not enough ball to go around. Put him on a trash team and he'd probably win.

Recent Games since he's had to carry the load

tatumstats by Roger Godahell, on Flickr

tjforce · 04-01-2018, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueXtreme

I’m not making this an MJ/LeBron argument. I’m proving a point. If people can sit there and say MJ Is better despite the stats. Then why not for ROY?
Just calling everyones’ attention to it.

Not looking to do any bashing or call anyone out or argue, really. I know that’s a mute point on here. Just want a genuine discussion

Again, I think you'd have to find the exact person who is saying it and contradicting himself and ask that person.

For me, it's not just about the stats for Simmons. It's about how offensively he has been near dominate since the break and defensively deserving of an All-NBA 1st or 2nd team nod.

tjforce · 04-01-2018, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerGodahell

Oh i know he isn't going to win. But i think a large reason he isn't in the running is because he plays on a good team. There's not enough ball to go around. Put him on a trash team and he'd probably win.

Recent Games since he's had to carry the load

tatumstats by Roger Godahell, on Flickr

Hard to say that. Philly and Utah are far from trash teams.

But I do get your point, the stats would be higher if he were a 1st or 2nd scoring option like he has been lately.

Collecting wise his stuff was hot to start he year and I could still see him possibly being the best out of this draft class.

RogerGodahell · 04-01-2018, 03:47 PM

Yes it's hard to say, but i'll pick Tatum for their career because im a homer and biased.

tjforce · 04-01-2018, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerGodahell

Yes it's hard to say, but i'll pick Tatum for their career because im a homer and biased.

Lol. This is a justification that I can't argue against.

jstasyk1121 · 04-01-2018, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cavs16

Exactly...he would average the same amount of points as Simmons does now 14 instead of 21.....hmmm?

The difference is that DM if he had those offense-minded players would drop to the teens...but would also lose reb/ast...

So Simmons is 16/8/8 with all those guys

DM would be like 15/2/2...his team is plenty talented...but like someone else said...this jazz team is perfect for him to excel...he would be a total non factor if he was on Philly when it came to ROY in my opinion...

Simmons would be a factor anywhere cuz he adds way more overall outside of scoring

View Poll Results: 50 games in - who is your rookie of the year?
Lonzo Ball	1	0.62%
Kyle Kuzma	5	3.11%
Lauri Markennan	1	0.62%
Donovan Mitchell	65	40.37%
Ben Simmons	77	47.83%
Jason Tatum	11	6.83%
Other - write in answer	1	0.62%
Voters: 161. You may not vote on this poll

04-01-2018, 01:30 PM	#582
tjforce Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 23,414	For anyone who says that Ben can't take over the game : he's on a streak where he's scored or assisted on 30 of the last 31 sixers points __________________ "Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because it’s the best thing going. Wooooo!"

04-01-2018, 03:04 PM	#588
broncomanning18 Banned Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 6,469	Simmons has been pretty stinking good this last month, I am slightly surprised his cards havent been slightly increasing.

04-01-2018, 03:23 PM	#592
RogerGodahell Banned Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Cardboard Enthusiast Posts: 20,783 RogerGodahell	Now that Tatum has to be the man in Boston he's been playing great. Not that he hasn't played great all year, but to carry the team i think he'd be more in the conversation if they didn't have Kyrie.

04-01-2018, 03:47 PM	#598
RogerGodahell Banned Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Cardboard Enthusiast Posts: 20,783 RogerGodahell	Yes it's hard to say, but i'll pick Tatum for their career because im a homer and biased.